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Urrgok

What's the word on the Tie Advanced?

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Vader is a different beast than Rexlar. When you add on Engine Upgrade, you have a ship that is tricky to lock down as Soontir that also doesn't fear a random whiff on the defense dice. And Outmaneuver really ups Vader's Offense.

admat and Red Castle like this

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If you have more than one TIE Advanced, give this squad a try:

 

Colonel Vessery (35)
Determination (1)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Tempest Squadron Pilot (21)
Concussion Missiles (4)
Stealth Device (3)

Tempest Squadron Pilot (21)
Concussion Missiles (4)
Stealth Device (3)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

 

 

This squad should be a bit more tanky than your average Empire list. If nothing else, it should give you a good idea of how the Advanced can work in a list. Vader isn't the only pilot that's useful, but he's certainly the easiest to work with than the generics.

stegocent likes this

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Im fully expecting imperial huge ship announcement at Gencon...

The -2 cost works for the awing because it was an offensive ship or blocker that costed a tad too much.

The Tie Advanced not only costs too much, but it has no niche.

I firmly believe the tie advanced should be converted into a support ship - that would make the survivability worth it and would still be a half decent fighter. So, new supportive pilot skills and a new supportive ept what works well with Vader.

I also think giving it the boost action (for either unique 0 pt, or non-unique 1 pt) would be really good - it would make Vader a real force like he should be.

Edited by Deadwolf

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The TIE Advanced is in need of buffing isn't it? Perhaps the least used ship I've seen in the competitive scene at least locally. Anyone flying vader usually does it because 'lol vader.'

 

My personal hopes are for a TIE Avenger pack with backwards compatible upgrades that buff the TIE Advanced. There may be some overlap, but I'm hoping the Avenger is speedy to the Advanced's dependable.

 

It would be great to hear about some new releases at Gencon (I guess, since I don't go....). Wouldn't be surprised if there was something in there for the advanced because, honestly? What other craft in the game is in dire need of patching? Maybe an aces pack that buffs ships from both factions?

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Im fully expecting imperial huge ship announcement at Gencon...

The Tie Advanced not only costs too much, but it has no niche.

 

You may be right, but I'm not convinced. I only fly Vader, and I equip him with an engine upgrade, and stick him with the Soontir & the Alpha Interceptors. (They're a band). I think it's a fun little list to dance around your opponents with.

 

I really hope you're right about them announcing an Imperial huge. I'm jonesing for one certainly.

 

...

 

Unless it sucks.

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The Advanced isn't as bad as it gets ragged on for being. It is not a devastating, auto-include, "muahahahaha" like advanced cloaking device, biggs darklighter, etc, etc, but it's far from a ship that's unwinnable with. Advanceds are tough - as in, hard to kill. Three evade dice and the evade action is the same as TIE Fighters and Interceptors, but with two shields stacked on top. The problem is that their firepower is decidedly so-so. for a fighter on a par with an X-wing for price.

 

It's also a shame that there are only the 'top two' named pilots; if you look at it as an X-wing analogue (not a bad point of comparison), you usually see X-wings in fours with one or two named pilots, or as a trio of elite pilots. In either case, you'd need a mid-level 24-26 point Advanced pilot that we don't have yet.

 

It also doesn't play that well in a fighter/interceptor pack because whilst barrel roll makes it a **** sight more agile than an X-wing, it's still no match for a fighter or interceptor - lacking that hard '1' turn is a big change when you're trying to turn inside someone, and shedding stress is a lot harder than it is with an interceptor.

 

 

 

Lets just say that I have an awfully good idea on what is coming because I have mutant powers of precognition. 

 

 

Friend Computer would like to remind all citizens that mutants are all commie traitors and that the troubleshooter team is making this sector safe by terminating them. Have a nice day (It is, after all, mandatory).

Radzap likes this

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its a fun ship to fly. 3 agility and 2 attack with barrel roll and evade is pretty defensive.

i played two Tempest Squadron Pilot in a 3 player game

 

ships were:

Player 1 Tempest Squadron Pilot x2  

Player 2 Dagger Squadron Pilot x2

Player 3 Tarn Mison and Hobbie

 

was really close match. The 3 defense dice and two shields is actually very durable. sadly the tie advanced is a bit overcosted at more competitive formats (100pts) and its lack of firepower is an issue. esp later in the game. Vader is a great finisher but he is a load of points.

 

summary: fun ship to play. recommended for non-competitive play.

rym likes this

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It is basicly a Tie that is priced as the X-Wing because it has shields like the X-Wing. If you look at the stats you would think they are similar with just the firepower and agility reversed, but many people will tell you that 3 Firepower will always trump 3 Agility because of the way the dice are set up. (50% to hit vs 37.5% to dodge).

 

Tie Advanced has more actions to include evade and barrel roll but still unless Vader it can only do 1 action a turn assuming it hadn't had run-ins with something. Tie Advanced carries misses so proton rockets will be a boon (because it turns agility to firepower) while the X-Wing carries torpedoes which is around the same cost for missiles (missiles 2-4 torpedoes 2-6).

 

The X-wing also has the Astromech upgrade which essentially gives the ship another pilot skill to use in the game at a slightly higher point cost. Some of those can be very powerful such as R3-A2 and Flechete torpedoes to double stress a fighter.

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X-Wings have astromechs on the Advanced in terms of upgrades, and while you can get a bunch of missiles for your Advanced after that one successful hit, what are they going to do now? 2-attack craft are usually only good in numbers which you can't do for the Advanced.

 

For whatever it's worth, the Advanced has not done anything for me the times I've run it. For the same price I'm running an Advanced, why wouldn't I be running two interceptors? Ordinance is not as reliable as we'd all like and in many cases, two is better than one.

 

And the bottom line is the pilots aren't that desirable apart from Vader, and even he labors when yoked to a TIE Advanced. If the Advanced had as many pilots as the X-wing does there would be more cause to take them. But with the generics representing the (lackluster) unmodified TIE Advanced and Stele only triggering with critical (of which you can't constantly deliver), it leaves the only pilot, Vader, and three pilot cards that end up okay but not as useful as other craft.

 

*shrug*

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to the tie advanced. well i myself do own 3 why ? i love to collect any ship in a 3 fighter formation looks cool, sounds cool, is cool.the tie advanced isnt that bad i have a list where i fly 3 advanced with a tie academy or obsidian pilot so a 4 fighter list and it never lost so far iam not playin it everytime. i do not think that it is overpriced the only thing i do hate about the advanced is thier movement dial its rubbish ;O ( u have to get used to it or else it wont make fun for u ;P ) give it a try use vader as a squad leader in a 5 tie list vader with 4 other named ties for example.

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When I started you had really limited choice in the UK it was tie fighters and advanced you could not find an interceptor for less than three times the rrp.

 

I used Vader alot and he only died on me once so I think he's okay but marek never once got to use his ability killing things with hits instead.

 

The advanced needs an upgrade to the avenger it's that simple.

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For whatever it's worth, the Advanced has not done anything for me the times I've run it. For the same price I'm running an Advanced, why wouldn't I be running two interceptors? Ordinance is not as reliable as we'd all like and in many cases, two is better than one.

 

Because 2 Interceptors (36pts) is far from the cost of 1 Advanced (21pts)? You could make the comparaison with Tie Fighters, but to be really fair, it would be more like 2 Tie Fighter (24pts) vs Advanced with Proton Rocket (24pts).

 

Yes, the Tie Advanced might cost a little more than it should. But, like Magnus said, it is not an auto-lose either. It is sturdy and, thanks to his reputation, tend to be very low in priority list of your opponent. I personally had good success with it, not just with Vader. Trouble is, I could have been served just as well with another craft. So, I never been let down by the ship, but I don't tend to include it either because it doesn't bring something unique like the other ships do.

 

And regarding the point cost. It's funny that some players can go to the lenght of dropping their team value to 96-97 pts to be sure to get initiative and yet, including a ship that cost maybe 2-3 points too much is out of the question.

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Vader has and still is a "money" pilot and he only got better with the Wave 4 cards.

 

The other Advanced ships suffer from being under-powered, or over-costed depending on the side of the debate you support.

 

The new missile types may make the generic Advanced more viable, but they are hard to make work in a 100 point list.

 

Only time will tell if FFG decide to "fix" them.

 

Until then, the Dark Lord of the Sith will continue to be the only pilot to have mastered the Advanced.

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Generally it's overpriced for what you get. However Vader with Daredevil, proton rockets and an engine upgrade is arguably the most maneuverable ship in the game and packs a vicious punch and clocks in at 39 points.

 

That sort of cost you're looking at an upgraded Firespray or an elite Phantom.

stegocent likes this

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Gencon. Where FFG will unveil something nice and juicy.

 

I mean, almost certainly yes--out of habit, if nothing else. But do you (meaning Crabbok) have a line on something in particular, or is this more "I know a guy who says he knows a guy who totally knows what FFG is doing next, but I can't say who he is"?

 

Lets just say that I have an awfully good idea on what is coming because I have mutant powers of precognition. 

 

 

... and you are observant and have plenty or applicable common sense.

;)

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Lets just say that I have an awfully good idea on what is coming because I have mutant powers of precognition.

 

... and you are observant and have plenty or applicable common sense.

;)

There's exactly one thing anywhere that mentions Black Sun, and it's in the flavor text of the Bandit Squadron Pilot; there's no such thing as valid extrapolation from a single data point.

Back on topic...

Yes, the Tie Advanced might cost a little more than it should. But, like Magnus said, it is not an auto-lose either. It is sturdy and, thanks to his reputation, tend to be very low in priority list of your opponent. I personally had good success with it, not just with Vader. Trouble is, I could have been served just as well with another craft. So, I never been let down by the ship, but I don't tend to include it either because it doesn't bring something unique like the other ships do.

I've been let down by it. The problem isn't that it's an auto-lose; it's that, as Magnus Grendel also acknowledged, every role it currently plays is done better by another ship (and most of those other ships are the TIE Bomber--which is its own problem, given the Bomber's own relative lack of popularity).

More fundamentally, the problem is that it's a fighter with really great defense in a game that doesn't really value defense. It's a good closer against some ships, but that's because when it's the last ship you have, your opponent finally has a good reason to shoot at it. In my opinion, what it needs is a sort of taunt mechanic--although preferably something on the subtle side, rather than the club-to-the-head of Biggs.

And regarding the point cost. It's funny that some players can go to the lenght of dropping their team value to 96-97 pts to be sure to get initiative and yet, including a ship that cost maybe 2-3 points too much is out of the question.

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that for the most part, the game isn't as sensitive to errors* in point costs as most players believe. A 2-point discount on a Prototype Pilot is a big deal--its cost decreases by over 10%. But a 2-point discount on Tycho + Push the Limit + Stealth Device is less than half his cost, and it's frankly a lot less noticeable.

(I'm deliberately ignoring, for the moment, the difficulty of determining the true points value of a named pilot.)

So, to reiterate somewhat, I don't think the Advanced actually has a cost problem--I think it has an ignorability problem. That's why a Chardaan-Refit-style fix won't work for the Advanced, actually, and why I think whatever FFG comes up with for the Advanced is going to have to be a lot tricksier.

z0m4d, Rithrin, Hobojebus and 3 others like this

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Yeah but Vorppies if I hold my breath, stamp and jump, and if I believe hard enough... IT WILL HAPPEN!

<_<

I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm saying there's no evidence that it's going to happen. Unless, apparently, you're Crabbok or Explosive Ewok, but that's down to whether you believe the unknown informant of the anonymous friend of a semi-anonymous forum poster...

Edited by Vorpal Sword
Joe Boss Red Seven likes this

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So, to reiterate somewhat, I don't think the Advanced actually has a cost problem--I think it has an ignorability problem. That's why a Chardaan-Refit-style fix won't work for the Advanced, actually, and why I think whatever FFG comes up with for the Advanced is going to have to be a lot tricksier.

 

 

Well said. My local gaming store has had it's fair share of talk about the ship being 1 to 3 points overcosted, and how easy the solution is to fix them. I always ask "Well if it was 19 points, would you run it?". The reponse is what you'd expect.

 

More pilot abilities is probably the most practical way of 'fixing' the TIE Advanced. Preferably, ones that actually touch on the ship's strength, unlike Maarek.

rym likes this

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So, to reiterate somewhat, I don't think the Advanced actually has a cost problem--I think it has an ignorability problem. That's why a Chardaan-Refit-style fix won't work for the Advanced, actually, and why I think whatever FFG comes up with for the Advanced is going to have to be a lot tricksier.

That's the exact thought I had the last time I ran an Advanced. That it wouldn't be a bad ship if people actually fired at the dang thing. It's high defense coupled with the ability to take some pressure off my other ships would be fantastic. I wonder if they are thinking that the Proton Rockets on an Advanced would make people more likely to shoot at them.

Magnus Grendel likes this

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So I have a question.  A number of people have mentioned the survivability and tankiness of the Advanced.  Has anyone run them in tournament since the change that winning by 12 points is a full win, instead of a modified?  I was just wondering if that rule helped make them a little more viable.

stegocent likes this

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Yeah but Vorppies if I hold my breath, stamp and jump, and if I believe hard enough... IT WILL HAPPEN!

<_<

I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm saying there's no evidence that it's going to happen. Unless, apparently, you're Crabbok or Explosive Ewok, but that's down to whether you believe the unknown informant of the anonymous friend of a semi-anonymous forum poster...

 

 

Well... I think it is safe to say that it is going to be a fun third and forth quarter no matter what I think I know, or what anybody else thinks they know about what is coming to us.

:)

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So I have a question.  A number of people have mentioned the survivability and tankiness of the Advanced.  Has anyone run them in tournament since the change that winning by 12 points is a full win, instead of a modified?  I was just wondering if that rule helped make them a little more viable.

No, but it's hard to imagine a Tempest Squadron Pilot would be more of an asset in that sense than a Scimitar Squadron Pilot (very different dials, but comparable action bars, offensive contribution, and defensive efficiency)--and I have played against naked Scimitars. So even if you're just planning on tanking your way to a win, I'm not sure the Advanced holds up.

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So I have a question.  A number of people have mentioned the survivability and tankiness of the Advanced.  Has anyone run them in tournament since the change that winning by 12 points is a full win, instead of a modified?  I was just wondering if that rule helped make them a little more viable.

No, but it's hard to imagine a Tempest Squadron Pilot would be more of an asset in that sense than a Scimitar Squadron Pilot (very different dials, but comparable action bars, offensive contribution, and defensive efficiency)--and I have played against naked Scimitars. So even if you're just planning on tanking your way to a win, I'm not sure the Advanced holds up.

 

Thanks, just thought I'd check.  I WANT to like the Advanced (besides Vader, whom I'll run with EU and Outmaneuver any day of the week).

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