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Marwynn

Your Dynasty Fleet and You!

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It's a rough first pass at the rules for what I call "Dynasty Fleet Operations", or "what those damned ships do when I'm not around". 

 

It's probably too complex, with a bit too much to track. I prefer the first few drafts to be like this, it's easier to trim and condense stuff than it is to add stuff later on.

 

Any feedback would be appreciated!

 

Here's the PDF.

 

 

 

======================================

 

 

August 20 Update: DFO 2.2 Click here!

Well, a lot has changed and a lot has stayed the same. The formatting should be the least of these, but they're meant to make it easier to read.

Edited by Marwynn

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Really good work!  It's generally well though out, and I can see a lot went into it.  There's a lot of good stuff here, particularly in the ideas of fleet organization and leadership.  The following is just my "list of issues", so don't take this as not liking what you've done.

 

Overall:  This could benefit from some consistency of target.  Is this meant to cover all Rogue Traders, Big Rogue Traders, Charter Captains, Imperial Navy, Xeno fleets, or everyone?  Both your language and your examples are very inconsistent on this.  You also seem to have two separate things here.  You might want to split them so they can be better considered independently.

 

Table 1-0:

It may be better to base this off of “the amount of free voidsmen”, potentially in a matrix set up.  A small station at a busy trade stop might logically have some very skilled voidsmen for hire, but not be very willing to part with them, while an out-of-the-way hiveworld might be willing to give you thousands of men cheap, so long as you don’t expect them to know what they’re doing.

 

Maintenance cost could use some hard rules, such as doubling for a year if the upkeep roll is failed after a battle or something.  Your kinder then I am with the cost of voidships.  I don’t charge any profit factor reduction for having a ship ‘in the wings’ (i.e., running basic routes for its own upkeep).   But I do reduce the dynasties “effective profit factor” by the full ship point value for the ship’s hull when they want to “free up” a ship to use for their own missions

 

Convoy rule should say “Within 5 VU to gain the benefit of being in a convoy”  Otherwise it sound like they can’t physically leave that area, which might be impossible to avoid during a battle or difficult navigation.

 

Squadron rule should be the same, and/or should include “must attempt to get back in coherency, even if this requires special maneuvering orders.” 

 

Warp travel should include a provision on one Navigator charting for several ships – this is one of the primary uses for convoys in deep imperial space – Navigators are expensive, and charter captains often can’t afford one each.   Something akin to “The lead Navigator may apply her roll to a number of ships in the convoy equal to her intelligence (or fellowship?) bonus.  Each test the Navigator applies in this way suffers a -10 for each additional ship, unless the ship has its own Navigator as well.  Failure at any point may indicate the convoy has broken apart, and may arrive at a different time (or location) then intended.

 

1.3.1 seems irrelevant and  redundant with “into the storm”

 

1.3.2 seems a little odd and mostly fluff.  Given that these groups seem to be made and broken at whim, the bonus are essentially “free”.

 

1.3.3 seems to be trying to do to many things in one place.  Up until this point, we’ve been talking about groups of ships, and the benefits of being in a group.  Some of the bonuses listed here are indeed bonus that you would expect from being a group.  However, others are equipment and yet others read more like “Past Histories”.  Perhaps as this point you should stick to “organizing your ships into a fleet”

 

Table 1.4:  It’s easier to read if your consistent about where things are.  You put FP costs on the left above, they should be on the left here.

 

1.3.4 example 0:  So the full amount of Fleet Points are spent in each step.  This feels a little odd for me.  I’d rather have one pool to spread.

 

2.1  This is almost all covered by “Background Endeavors” in Into the Storm.  I would consider meshing what you have here (which has some interesting rules to it) with the instructions in that supplement.  I’d also, personally, pull this out as a separate document for review purposes on the forum.

 

Chapters 2&3&4: The breakdown of Chapters 2 & 3 are odd.  I’d title the whole chapter “Fleet Actions, then give each one its own separated section, rather than this doubling.

 

Chapter 4 heading: Don’t assume we’ve been performing these actions in order, it’s disconcerting to read, particularly when it’s not part of the example section.

 

Chapter 4:  The specifics of the enemy fleet seem odd here.  If the Explorers aren’t involved (which seems to be the point here) then why does it matter what the enemy fleet was composed of.  All we really need is a way to calculate the “strength” of the fleet being sent, than rules for results based on how they compare.

 

Table 4.1 & 4.2:  This table seems odd to me, particularly for Rogue Trader fleets which might have very non-standard set ups.  The chart would indicate that an unarmed freighter and a double-sunsear armed freighter are equally effective in a fleet engagement.  You should consider some kind of more unified (or abstract adjustable) way of designating the combat strength of a vessel.  These rules also don’t take into account leadership or the presence of leaders.

Edited by Quicksilver

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Thanks!

 

The overall goal is to provide a smorgasbord of options for people to pick and choose. I probably should've made that clearer. 

 

Voidsmen - Definitely a better idea with a matrix than what was up there. 

Maintenance Cost - Yep, this part wasn't written in with the Operations yet, especially the later stuff.

 

1.3.1 and 1.3.2 were provided for background purposes, so no need to flip through ItS. But this whole subsection could use some rework.

 

Table 1-4 - Issue with spaces. I did this in Word mostly so I limited myself to just 30 FP and gave room to grow down. 

 

1.3.4 - Fleet Points, Yeah they're for each step. The easiest thing to do, honestly. It could be one pool to spend everywhere, but you'd have to introduce limits. I'm not married to the idea either way.

 

 

Chapters 2, 3, and 4... Ugh. I've written and re-written those sections that they deserve to be rewritten again. You're right about Chapter 4. 

 

 

How do you feel about the Examples? Are they understandable? 

 

And yeah, 4 is still teetering between "too much" and "not enough". I'm okay with leaving them amorphous. Leaders have not been inserted into any of Chapters 2-4 well either.

 

Thanks for taking the time to feedback! I needed to write it out and display this way so I can take a step back and look at it as a whole. Your perspective's been very useful!

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To better explain my point at 1.3.3.:

 

The way I read the rules, it appeared as though I could take my disorganized mess of ships, organize them into a nice little fleet (worth 30pts), select Galleon as my bonus, and an archotech component would appear on my ship!  It's also unclear if these bonuses apply to 1 ship or all ships in the fleet.

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I like the new format and the extended example, it makes it easier to read.  

One point though, I don't see any benefit to shared over contractional ownership agreements.

Also, how does this work with the Finances in Arrears complication?

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Sorry for the double-post, but it occurred to me that you might like a particular ship-owning method I've had in my game:

 

Vassal-Captain

 

The free captain of this vessel has sworn loyalty to the dynasty, in exchange for the protection of the Warrant and some access to the dynasties wealth and power.  Its a quick way to increase the effective size of your fleet, but risks putting you on the hook for something your vassal did.

 

Cost:

The Dynasty pays no Maintenance for this vessel. In addition, the Dynasty does not need to buy (permanently reduce profit factor) for this ship.  However, half all achievement points gained by this vessel, than reduce any achievement points gained during an endeavor by an additional 100 (unless this would cause the endeavor to fail). Also, as a misfortune, the vassal may have gotten themselves in over their head somewhere, or put the dynasty on the hook for something unintended.

 

Note: The Dynasty does not actually 'own' the vassal ship, so while the vassal might accept "gifts" of better ship equipment and the like, the vassal is the ultimate master of the ship, and makes the ultimate decisions of what happens to it.

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I can't persume to critique your wonderful suppliment, just mentioning I find this evolves the RPG in a excellent fdirection, like an X game almost, yes its alot to track but it gives you a solid background for your players to expand upon.

 

Cheers mate, keep it up!

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I really like this as well. Do you have any thoughts on the maintenance cost and missions for stations as well as ships? My party has been hearing rumors of a long-lost Ramilies Star Fort, and they're vigorously debating trying to track it down and get it repaired, then position it over their 'capitol' world.

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I was plugging away at void stations earlier and somehow lost that entire "fork" from the main copy. So instead, I've tried to clean up what I have so far.

 

I'll need to finish the Operations section to see how void stations can play with it.

 

How does it look so far guys?

 

Thanks kindly for the encouraging words. I know it's practically it's own game system...

 

EDIT: Download it, then read it. It looks hideous previewed.

Edited by Marwynn

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Had a read through the leadership bit, yeah, it's turning into its own roleplay! lol, but its entirely within RT, this is gettings very deep indeed.

 

How will this work for a GM with a group flying a few flotillas with Fleet Officers coming out the wazoo? Who knows.

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Hmm, seems I didn't make changes to the number of free fleet leaders. I had it at fleet points / 10 when it was 5 points for a Cruiser. Since I changed that to the tens of the SP and the tens of the Crew Rating, every ship will practically create a new FL.

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Alright, I've been working on this and I've gotten a very rules-heavy draft of it here

 

I don't like it.

 

I don't play rules-heavy games anymore, and this would only really benefit the GM and not the players themselves. 

 

The truth is, despite having played since the beginning of the year, we have very little exposure to the Rogue Trader rules system. Yes, combat, spaceship combat, and so on we've used. But colonies? Endeavours were kinda used, but not really in the same way.

 

So I'm going to take a step back and simplify this. My original intent was that these would be run in the background. After a while, the randomness should generate an organic playground for both the GM and the players to enjoy. 

 

I don't think the current iteration does that very well. 

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Well, I don't have a problem with crunch, so I'm grateful for what you've already provided. I'm going to give it a test run with my group in the new few months, as they're looking to grow their fleet some. I'm happy to let you know how it goes, if you like.

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Thanks Trailblazer. I often end up leaning towards crunch too, but I wanted to create a set of rules or guidelines to fill in the blanks as well. I realized I had skipped that part entirely and injected the "Threat Level" out of nowhere.

 

I've redone the start of Chapter 2 explaining something that could be useful. This is like the precursor to the Stars of Inequity system/planet generator and was written with it somewhat in mind: New Chapter 2.

 

 

EDIT:

Just updated again, now with more warp storms as threats! 

Edited by Marwynn

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Mah bad!

 

Well, there's like 2 warp storms... they're just semi-permanent threats in the area that you'll need to bypass via a Scout Operation or an Exploration Endeavour. But that's not in yet.

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I have to tell you this. As a new GM to Rogue Trader, reading your stuff has made my life so much easier and I plan on using the stuff you put out. Keep up the good work and keep at it.

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Thanks Sinpoder, I hope to make this useful for anyone.

 

Hey guys, remember when I said I wanted lighter rules with less crunch? Turns out that wasn't true. Well, kinda. I've still not re-added Fleet Leaders back in, but I've expanded a great many things. 

 

The OP has been updated, but here's a link to DFO 2.2! Now with more squiggly lines. 

 

I think this is turning into its own thing, you could even create a "Rogue Fleet" game out of what it may turn out to be. Any feedback at all would be appreciated, and anyone willing to play with this to balance it will gain one internet cookie (and honourable mentions).

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We play one weekend every 4-6 weeks, so I can't say how quickly we'll be able to test the whole thing, but we are using it.

 

The group has recently established a web of trade routes between a Mining World, an Agri World, and a Hive World. They want to make this the center of their dynasty's holding in the region. Most of these things had been abandoned/fallen into decay and disrepair, but after several endeavours they've got the whole thing up and running again.

 

Of course, where there's thriving trade, piracy soon follows. They only have one ship, so they followed rumors of a derelict Strike Cruiser left from a failed Crusade into the homebrew expanse our game is set in. Long story short, they secured the cruiser from the dangers infesting it and manage to get it back to a space dock for repairs. This raised an interesting question for me, at least: do I apply the reduction in PF immediately upon salvaging the ship, or when it actually enters their active service? I went with the latter, but I'd be interested to hear if you agree/disagree.

 

Once the ship was repaired (involving more shenanigans, of course), they put it into service patrolling the trade routes. They cut a deal with the local Free Trader captains that half of their maintenance costs would be covered as long as they were defending the local shipping, so I reduced the 6 maintenance to 3 as long as it's doing that.

 

That will have shifted to the background now, as they're headed back into Imperial space to pursue getting Astropaths for their worlds. So next time I may have a chance to test some of the background Operations rules.

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This raised an interesting question for me, at least: do I apply the reduction in PF immediately upon salvaging the ship, or when it actually enters their active service? I went with the latter, but I'd be interested to hear if you agree/disagree.

I'd apply it as the cost of refurbishing, so probably as a slow loss over that periode. For whatever that's worth.

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Sounds pretty neat, Trailblazer. I agree with Tenebrae though that I'd applied the PF reduction immediately, or at least have the refit cost PF then translate into a maintenance cost.

 

In the scale of things though, even if you did pay for something that expensive, your PF should take time to actually be affected. So it makes sense either way.

 

 

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