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ND Jones

Source of Sickness Plague Worm Limit

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All,

 

Playing with 2 heroes. Reinforcements for the quest reads:

 

"At the start of each overlord turn, he may discard an infected villager not being carried to place a minion plague worm in an empty adjacent space."

 

Group limit for Plague Worms is 1 master minion when playing with two heroes. Does this reinforcements effect override the group limit and allow the OL to summon as many plague worms as he has figures for? The quest doesn't say anything about "Respecting" or "Ignoring" group limits.

 

Appreciate your help!

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Well the general rule is that group limits must always be respected unless explicitly said otherwise. That said, it does seem somewhat off to claim that this option is simply unusable in a 2 hero game. It's probably worth checking with FFG directly if they want to issue an errata or clarify the intent of this rule in a 2 hero game.

We always play with 4 heroes so it's not really an issue for us.

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I haven't played this quest as of yet, but it would be my thought that the rules of the quest would out weigh the general rules of the game (or in this case group limits).  Since other mechanics have allowed group limits to be exceeded (in other words a precedence has already been set), I don't see an issue with this stance.

 

Since it specifically states that:

 

"At the start of each overlord turn, he may discard an infected villager not being carried to place a minion plague worm in an empty adjacent space."

 

I would say that you could do this for each infected villager per the rules above.

 

Of course, does that also mean that you could exceed the total number of plague worms in the game?  Hmmmm.

 

I was previously told in an e-mail response by FFG to a different question that the following was true:

 

Card Text > Skills/Abilities > Quest Rules > Base Game Rules

 

If the above is true, then I would see no problem in replacing a plague worm for each infected villager even though you would exceed the stated limits for a 2 hero game.

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I agree with any2cards here- this is a placement specifically allowed by the quest rules. However, since it does not explicitly state to "ignore group limits," I think it's worth getting an official word on the matter. Denying that mechanic completely to an OL in a 2 hero game would definitely change the quest. However, it's a difficult quest as it is for the heroes, and perhaps the lack of minion plague worm in a two hero game was accounted for.

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It would seem strange that FFG would not have play tested this specific scenario.  Having said that, trying to play test all combinations that exist in this game would be darn near impossible.

 

I think Zaltyre makes a good suggestion ... I would second sending a request to FFG to clarify the situation.  Unfortunately, there are so many situations where rules and/or quest mechanics that do not specifically state that something is or is not allowed, that you can't really be certain without asking.

 

If we play this quest, and I have not heard back any comments from FFG, I intend to play by my ruling.  The funny thing is, much like Steve-O mentioned above, we almost always play with 4 heroes, so it will be a moot point for us.  Still, I would like to know the ruling.

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First off, thanks to all three of you for your input!

 

Sorry for the late response, I was out of town all weekend. I put in a request to FFG for clarification on this rule, I'll let you all know what the outcome is.

 

Ideally we would be playing with 4 heroes, but with most of our friend group working full time with significant others or families, it's hard to find time to play that works for 5 people. We're discussing doing a 3 person game where the two hero players control 2 champions a piece, giving us 4 heroes. We wanted to test the waters with 2 heroes first though.

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First off, thanks to all three of you for your input!

 

Sorry for the late response, I was out of town all weekend. I put in a request to FFG for clarification on this rule, I'll let you all know what the outcome is.

 

Ideally we would be playing with 4 heroes, but with most of our friend group working full time with significant others or families, it's hard to find time to play that works for 5 people. We're discussing doing a 3 person game where the two hero players control 2 champions a piece, giving us 4 heroes. We wanted to test the waters with 2 heroes first though.

 

I think this is the right idea.  To be clear, we have only played a 4 hero game with 4 actual players once or twice in all of the years I have played this game.  Most often, it is people playing multiple heroes that add up to 4.  In fact, I play quite frequently with 1 player running 4 heroes.

 

To be fair, I think I have the most amount of fun when we can get a large, diverse, group of people together playing 1 hero each, but that simply isn't always possible due to scheduling constraints.  And I would rather play with less people than not play at all  :P

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First off, thanks to all three of you for your input!

 

Sorry for the late response, I was out of town all weekend. I put in a request to FFG for clarification on this rule, I'll let you all know what the outcome is.

 

Ideally we would be playing with 4 heroes, but with most of our friend group working full time with significant others or families, it's hard to find time to play that works for 5 people. We're discussing doing a 3 person game where the two hero players control 2 champions a piece, giving us 4 heroes. We wanted to test the waters with 2 heroes first though.

 

I think this is the right idea.  To be clear, we have only played a 4 hero game with 4 actual players once or twice in all of the years I have played this game.  Most often, it is people playing multiple heroes that add up to 4.  In fact, I play quite frequently with 1 player running 4 heroes.

 

To be fair, I think I have the most amount of fun when we can get a large, diverse, group of people together playing 1 hero each, but that simply isn't always possible due to scheduling constraints.  And I would rather play with less people than not play at all  :P

 

I 100% agree with you. Got really into Descent and board games about a year after I quit World of Warcraft (5.5 years I'll never get back). It sucked the gaming spirit out of me, nothing was appealing anymore. Finally a coworker convinced me to play Descent, I really enjoyed getting a group of friends physically together, strategizing/laughing/having fun in person vs sitting on a computer doing the same dungeons week in and week out.

 

Glad to hear that multiple heroes per person works well for you. I've informed my two friends and that's what we'll be doing! I've only been through 3 campaigns now (Shadow Rune x2, Trollfens x1). Once on the shadow rune as OL, the rest as a hero. Playing multiple heroes will let me get a good feel for the different classes without having to play many different campaigns.

 

Still no word from FFG on the 2 hero situation.

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Hi ND Jones, 

 
I have talked to the developer of that quest and the intent is that you ignore group limits, as you suppose. 
 
Thanks, 

Nathan Hajek
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games

 

 

 

 

Got a response from FFG on the issue. According to them, the quest was built with the intent to ignore group limits. Hope this helps others in the future!

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Hi ND Jones, 

 
I have talked to the developer of that quest and the intent is that you ignore group limits, as you suppose. 
 
Thanks, 

Nathan Hajek
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games

 

 

 

 

Got a response from FFG on the issue. According to them, the quest was built with the intent to ignore group limits. Hope this helps others in the future!

 

 

And here-in lies my biggest beef with FFG games ... there are just too many assumptions made by the developers in terms of us being able to read their minds as to their intents.  Sometimes trying to guess what "they meant", what "they intended", etc. ends up being the biggest arguments/debates that occur on these forums, as well as amongst my gaming group.

 

Sigh.  It would be so easy for them to just say so in the first place in the quest.  Oh well ...

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Thanks for posting the answer, ND. Good to know. Any2cards, it's true that in a fair number of situations one has to resort to interpretation- and while that can be frustrating, at least FFG is good about providing support and answering questions. Additionally, with a bit of reasoning, many of these "ambiguous" rules can be supported pretty strongly for one way or another. Descent has gotten significantly more complex since the release of the base game, and that seems to be the price we pay for the introduction of a lot of really cool mechanics that interact in strange ways with each other. 

any2cards likes this

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Your remarks are fair and reasonable.  I will say, however, that there have been many times where most of FFG forums and BGG forums were leaning a specific way on how something will be ruled, only to find the official FAQ ruling the opposite.

 

I am fortunate that most of my group just wants to have a good time playing, and are not rule lawyers.  I don't enjoy playing games with rule lawyers.

 

EDIT: I will agree about one other thing ... FFG support has to be one of the best in the business.  This includes being responsive to questions asked, replacing items with issues (perhaps even issues created by the player, etc.).  It is rather refreshing.

Edited by any2cards

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Make sure to post the answer over in the FFG Sez link on BGG.

 Sorry I'm being noobish and having trouble finding the FFG Sez section of BBG. I've not used that site before. 

 

 

Once again, thanks to all who posted here. I appreciate your input and look forward to more discussions with you :)

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Make sure to post the answer over in the FFG Sez link on BGG.

 Sorry I'm being noobish and having trouble finding the FFG Sez section of BBG. I've not used that site before. 

 

 

Once again, thanks to all who posted here. I appreciate your input and look forward to more discussions with you :)

 

 

Here is a link to the FFG Sez thread within the forum for Descent Second Edition on BGG:

 

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/863073/ffg-sez-thread-link-wiki-1st-post-unofficial-answe

 

Note that the very first post within this thread has a link to a Wiki, also on BGG, which is an organized version of the FFG Sez thread.  It is a very nice Wiki, as it contains far more information than the official FAQ.

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Make sure to post the answer over in the FFG Sez link on BGG.

 Sorry I'm being noobish and having trouble finding the FFG Sez section of BBG. I've not used that site before. 

 

 

Once again, thanks to all who posted here. I appreciate your input and look forward to more discussions with you :)

 

 

Here is a link to the FFG Sez thread within the forum for Descent Second Edition on BGG:

 

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/863073/ffg-sez-thread-link-wiki-1st-post-unofficial-answe

 

Note that the very first post within this thread has a link to a Wiki, also on BGG, which is an organized version of the FFG Sez thread.  It is a very nice Wiki, as it contains far more information than the official FAQ.

 

It has been posted. Thanks to you for this post and Zaltyre for the PM.

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