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iggy42

How is the errata looking

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Any major bloopers spotted? 

 

I'm wondering if its safe to dive right in, or wait for a 2nd printing.  I know FFG are better than most when it comes to errors but I have a major hate of errata.

 

 

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Yeah, copy and paste job it looks like.

Go ahead and jump in, its safe, shouldn't be any major problems that haven't already been spotted in eote.

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Besides, the Sentinel's built off the same chassis as the Lambda, except the S-foils and engines are moved aft behind the passenger section. Upgraded shields and weapons, but otherwise should be identical.

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Sentinel's showing much different stats than the Lambda in my copy, and they look fairly reasonable, you sure it's not just a misprint in some copies?

 

Only other possible errata I saw is the second Indistinguishable talent in Ambassador costs 5xp despite being on the second line, not sure if that's deliberate or not.

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Sentinel's showing much different stats than the Lambda in my copy, and they look fairly reasonable, you sure it's not just a misprint in some copies?

Does your Sentinel show the exact same Passengers, Encumbrance Capacity and Weapons as the Lambda? All of those should be very different, but in my book they are the same.

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Besides, the Sentinel's built off the same chassis as the Lambda, except the S-foils and engines are moved aft behind the passenger section. Upgraded shields and weapons, but otherwise should be identical.

Beyond the weapons, the Sentinel is supposed to be able to carry 54 troops plus support weapons/gear. This is far different from the Lambda that can only carry 20 passengers if it strips out all of its cargo capacity.

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Thanks for the responses.  Looks like the Star Wars money (Sarlacc?) pit will keep swallowing my hard-earned....

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Yeah, the Sentinel-class stats are botched. Needs to be faster, with better shields and different weaponry. As I recall, the Beta rulebook had correct stats. Failing that, a weapon list is available from the usual wiki sources.

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As for the Sentinel, it could very well be that FFG had reason to change the stat block in between the Beta and the core rulebook release.  There were a number of minor changes between the EotE Beta and core rulebook that were intentional changes, so bear in mind that just because it's different now doesn't automatically mean it's wrong.

 

Again, the classic case of FFG putting the HWK-290 at roughly the same size as a starfigher when all the prior "official" documentation placed it as being substantially larger, with folks at the press release even going to so far and look up the ship's article on Wookieepedia as "proof" that FFG was wrong, when in fact it was WotC that was incorrect with FFG having info straight from the Lucasfilm Archives to back them up.

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It's this kind of thing that bugs me and I am that picky.  I waited for the 2nd print of EotE and I think I'll do the same for AoR.  It's not like I've exhausted the existing material.

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Again, the classic case of FFG putting the HWK-290 at roughly the same size as a starfigher when all the prior "official" documentation placed it as being substantially larger, with folks at the press release even going to so far and look up the ship's article on Wookieepedia as "proof" that FFG was wrong, when in fact it was WotC that was incorrect with FFG having info straight from the Lucasfilm Archives to back them up.

 

Have you actually looked at the two stat blocks to understand what people are talking about? 

 

You constantly reference the HWK-290 situation, but I think you're giving it more credence than is actually deserved. Do you have a reference or a source that confirms that Fantasy Flight Games made the HWK-290 decision based on occult knowledge bestowed upon them by the Lucasfilm archives through special dispensation, or are you just speculating?

 

Since the only place that seems to reference the HWK-290 being larger than the way FFG portrayed it is WotC material, it makes a lot more sense to me for FFG to simply compare the size of the HWK-290 in the original source material (Dark Forces I and II) and literally everything else that was published on the HWK-290 and realize that the people at Wizards had made yet another careless mistake. It's not as big as WotC said in Dark Forces I. It's not as big as WotC said in Dark Forces II. It's not as big as WotC said in Incredible Cross Sections. I don't understand why you put so much stock in one single, contradictory source that has proven again and again to be unreliable.

 

During the beta you argued that the X-Wing's armor rating of 5 was correct for the essentially same reasons, but that turned out to be an error as the vast majority of people suspected. Isn't it possible that someone at FFG simply made a mistake? Or are you seriously trying to argue that a Sentinel Class ship is no bigger on the inside than a Lambda class shuttle?

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The fluff text for the Sentinel still says it can carry six squads of Stormtroopers. That's the 54 passengers that the Beta version had, not the 20 listed currently (which matches the Lambda).

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Monster.jpg

Made this based on the WOTC scale... It's possible that all depictions are correct, and that the only error is the failure to mention that Kyle and Jan are both 5 meters tall...

 

Now that's a solution I think we all can accept. Perhaps there's some obscure bit of data at the Lucasfilm archives that confirms Kyle and Jan's unusual height. Tee hee. (Nice job on the model, by the way.)

 

I still think that the Sentinel having the same passenger capacity as a Lambda is like saying that a CH-47 is as big on the inside as a UH-60.

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The sidebar titled "Rebel Alliance Military Ranks" on page 393 might have some errata. The Navy column and the Army column both have Lieutenant listed twice. I wonder if the Navy column should have Lieutenant Commander listed under Commander and First Lieutenant listed under Captain in the Army column.

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Have you actually looked at the two stat blocks to understand what people are talking about? 

Have you seen how many times HappyDaze has gotten into a stink over "FFG did this wrong!" because a stat block doesn't jive 100% with what his expectations are of what it should be, or that it differs from a WEG version?

 

Maybe the Sentinel is wrong in all the books, maybe it's a printing error, or maybe FFG decided to revise it.  All I'm saying is give these guys the benefit of the doubt instead of immediately jumping to the conclusion that "FFG got the stats wrong!"

 

if folks are getting this bent out of shape over a freaking starship, i can't wait to see the poo-storms that erupt once Force and Destiny is out :rolleyes:

Edited by Donovan Morningfire
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Have you actually looked at the two stat blocks to understand what people are talking about? 

Have you seen how many times HappyDaze has gotten into a stink over "FFG did this wrong!" because a stat block doesn't jive 100% with what his expectations are of what it should be, or that it differs from a WEG version?

 

Maybe the Sentinel is wrong in all the books, maybe it's a printing error, or maybe FFG decided to revise it.  All I'm saying is give these guys the benefit of the doubt instead of immediately jumping to the conclusion that "FFG got the stats wrong!"

 

if folks are getting this bent out of shape over a freaking starship, i can't wait to see the poo-storms that erupt once Force and Destiny is out :rolleyes:

 

Try to address my points, Donovan. Making personal statements about me is poor form.

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Again, the classic case of FFG putting the HWK-290 at roughly the same size as a starfigher when all the prior "official" documentation placed it as being substantially larger, with folks at the press release even going to so far and look up the ship's article on Wookieepedia as "proof" that FFG was wrong, when in fact it was WotC that was incorrect with FFG having info straight from the Lucasfilm Archives to back them up.

 

Have you actually looked at the two stat blocks to understand what people are talking about? 

 

You constantly reference the HWK-290 situation, but I think you're giving it more credence than is actually deserved. Do you have a reference or a source that confirms that Fantasy Flight Games made the HWK-290 decision based on occult knowledge bestowed upon them by the Lucasfilm archives through special dispensation, or are you just speculating?

 

Since the only place that seems to reference the HWK-290 being larger than the way FFG portrayed it is WotC material, it makes a lot more sense to me for FFG to simply compare the size of the HWK-290 in the original source material (Dark Forces I and II) and literally everything else that was published on the HWK-290 and realize that the people at Wizards had made yet another careless mistake. It's not as big as WotC said in Dark Forces I. It's not as big as WotC said in Dark Forces II. It's not as big as WotC said in Incredible Cross Sections. I don't understand why you put so much stock in one single, contradictory source that has proven again and again to be unreliable.

"This freighter was made famous by Kyle Katarn’s Moldy Crow in the classic video game, Star Wars: Dark Forces, and the game's developers closely reviewed the video game’s screenshots and engaged in conversations with Lucasfilm Ltd. to confirm the ship's official length." http://fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4193

 

Not 100% sure what the point you're trying to make is anyway, that because FFG was right about the HWK-290 that now they're wrong about the Sentinel?

 

 

They probably are wrong about the Sentinel though.

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Have you seen how many times HappyDaze has gotten into a stink over "FFG did this wrong!" because a stat block doesn't jive 100% with what his expectations are of what it should be, or that it differs from a WEG version?

 

Maybe the Sentinel is wrong in all the books, maybe it's a printing error, or maybe FFG decided to revise it.  All I'm saying is give these guys the benefit of the doubt instead of immediately jumping to the conclusion that "FFG got the stats wrong!"

 

if folks are getting this bent out of shape over a freaking starship, i can't wait to see the poo-storms that erupt once Force and Destiny is out :rolleyes:

 

 

So, no. You didn't look at the stat blocks to understand what people are talking about.

 

No one mentioned the WEG version. No one mentioned Wookieepedia. People pointed out an error because the listed encumbrance capacity and troop capacity (and weapons) are the same for both the Lambda and the Sentinel, when the fluff text for the Sentinel clearly states that its troop capacity is much higher. The issue is not a contradiction with some obscure, out of print WEG sourcebook, but within FFG's own book. The fact that the stats were correct in the beta leads most reasonable people to come to the conclusion that it was a simple error and hope that it's fixed in the errata. Six squads does not equal twenty persons.

 

People in the thread were simply pointing out an error. The only person getting bent out of shape is you.

 

"This freighter was made famous by Kyle Katarn’s Moldy Crow in the classic video game, Star Wars: Dark Forces, and the game's developers closely reviewed the video game’s screenshots and engaged in conversations with Lucasfilm Ltd. to confirm the ship's official length." http://fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4193

 

Not 100% sure what the point you're trying to make is anyway, that because FFG was right about the HWK-290 that now they're wrong about the Sentinel?

 

 

They probably are wrong about the Sentinel though.

 

 

The point I was making is that Donovan Morningfire tries to use the HWK-290 as an example of how FFG "changed" canon because of secret knowledge bestowed upon them by Lucasfilm when in reality, the HWK-290 was always portrayed as the size that FFG used. 

 

He was suggesting that FFG was given some sort of information from the "Lucasfilm archive" that changed the internal capacity of the Sentinel to a mere 20 persons, and used the HWK-290 as an alleged example of this. I was making the point that FFG made no change because the HWK-290 was always the size FFG portrayed it. Therefore, it is unreasonable to use the HWK-290 as an example of FFG changing the stats or size of a craft in-universe when it's not an example of such.

 

Edit: Typos.

Edited by Yoshiyahu

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Have you seen how many times HappyDaze has gotten into a stink over "FFG did this wrong!" because a stat block doesn't jive 100% with what his expectations are of what it should be, or that it differs from a WEG version?

 

Maybe the Sentinel is wrong in all the books, maybe it's a printing error, or maybe FFG decided to revise it.  All I'm saying is give these guys the benefit of the doubt instead of immediately jumping to the conclusion that "FFG got the stats wrong!"

 

if folks are getting this bent out of shape over a freaking starship, i can't wait to see the poo-storms that erupt once Force and Destiny is out :rolleyes:

 

So, no. You didn't look at the stat blocks to understand what people are talking about.

 

No one mentioned the WEG version. No one mentioned Wookieepedia. People pointed out an error because the listed encumbrance capacity and troop capacity (and weapons) are the same for both the Lambda and the Sentinel, when the fluff text for the Sentinel clearly states that its troop capacity is much higher. The issue is not a contradiction with some obscure, out of print WEG sourcebook, but within FFG's own book. The fact that the stats were correct in the beta leads most reasonable people to come to the conclusion that it was a simple error and hope that it's fixed in the errata. Six squads does not equal twenty persons.

 

People in the thread were simply pointing out an error. The only person getting bent out of shape is you.

 

"This freighter was made famous by Kyle Katarn’s Moldy Crow in the classic video game, Star Wars: Dark Forces, and the game's developers closely reviewed the video game’s screenshots and engaged in conversations with Lucasfilm Ltd. to confirm the ship's official length." http://fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4193

 

Not 100% sure what the point you're trying to make is anyway, that because FFG was right about the HWK-290 that now they're wrong about the Sentinel?

 

 

They probably are wrong about the Sentinel though.

 

The point I was making is that Donvan Morningfire tries to use the HWK-290 as an example of how FFG "changed" canon because of secret knowledge bestowed upon them by Lucasfilm when in reality, the HWK-290 was always portrayed as the size that FFG used. 

 

He was suggesting that FFG was given some sort of information from the "Lucasfilm archive" that changed the internal capacity of the Sentinel to a mere 20 persons, and used the HWK-290 as an alleged example of this. I was making the point that FFG made no change because the HWK-290 was always the size FFG portrayed it. Therefore, it is unreasonable to use the HWK-290 as an example of FFG changing the stats or size of a craft in-universe when it's not an example of such.

I can't totally speak for Donovan as I am a different person than he, but I got the impression that his point was that FFG had been called out by some for doing the HWK incorrectly, when it was in fact previous sources that were inaccurate. Not that FFG changed the in-universe canon. And that perhaps the Sentinel is a similar case.

I, however, don't think the Sentinel is the same at all, I totally get the impression it's a mistake.

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I can't totally speak for Donovan as I am a different person than he, but I got the impression that his point was that FFG had been called out by some for doing the HWK incorrectly, when it was in fact previous sources that were inaccurate. Not that FFG changed the in-universe canon. And that perhaps the Sentinel is a similar case.

I, however, don't think the Sentinel is the same at all, I totally get the impression it's a mistake.

 

 

If that is indeed the case, I will apologize for misrepresenting his position. In the case of the HWK-290, there was a single source that made an incorrect assumption about the size of the ship. The error was perpetuated because it got picked up by Wookieepedia. That much was certainly correct.

 

That being said, the fact that FFG was correct about the size of the HWK-290 does not mean that the stat-block for the Sentinel isn't an error, and I think that's all people are trying to say. I prefer to give the writers at FFG the benefit of the doubt in most situations, but my default position is not the assumption that they are infallible. I don't hold typos (like the Sentinel) against them, but they're human, and they make mistakes. Gravity Belt, anyone?

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Revanchist7 hit the nail on the head.

 

FFG has been called out repeatedly by other posters who automatically assume that because a stat block for a starship or vehicle is different from the norm or somehow differs from what prior RPG systems (particularly WEG, which gets held up as some sort of holy grail) or what Wookieepedia listed, then FFG has, in their view, "obviously botched things up."

 

I ain't saying that the new Sentinel stats are correct, and it could be a copy/paste error, but it just seems that every time there's a starship or vehicle where the stats differ in some way, the first response always seems to be "FFG screwed up!" when later answers reveal that in many cases, they didn't.  Though he apparently won't cop to it, HappyDaze has been on of the more vocal people on these forums that anytime some bit of a stat block doesn't match up to what Wookieepedia or especially WEG had listed asserts that somewhere along the line, FFG screwed up, to the point that his posts come across more and more like the boy that cried wolf.  I also cite the HWK-290 as a prominent case of where the fanbase clamored that "FFG screwed up!" when the reality of the situation is that WotC had made the mistake and FFG had simply corrected matters for their X-Wing minis game, and they've got information from Lucasfilm Archives to back them up on making the HWK-290 the size it is in the minis game in contrast to the much larger size that WotC gave it in a web article and later in a Saga Edition supplement.

 

I never said that the Sentinel stats in AoR weren't a typo.  But frankly I'm rather sick of seeing folks leap to the kneejerk reaction that just because something doesn't line up with what they think it should be or what a prior RPG system did, then it means that "FFG screwed up."

 

Then again, having been in the shoes of the writers, both as an amateur RPG writer and professionally for WotC's Saga Edition line, I'm more willing to give those hard-working folks (and lest anyone has any foolish ideas of it being a cushy job, it's not) the benefit of the doubt rather than flat-out condemn them.

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Revanchist7 hit the nail on the head.

 

In that case, I apologize. I both misunderstood and misrepresented your position, and for that I am sorry. It seemed to me that you were saying that the HWK-270's "correct" size was the size presented by Wizards of the Coast, and that FFG made a change based on new information given to them by Lucasfilm. I was wrong.

 

I don't think it was the intention of anyone here to attack or malign the creators of the Star Wars RPG. I can't speak for everyone, but for me personally, that was never the case. Even during the discussion of the TIE Defender, my comments were not a complaint that things were "different" or "wrong," but a question about the design intent behind the decision that was made. Questioning is not automatically complaining. Perhaps in your fervor to defend the creators, you misinterpreted the intentions of (at least) some of the people here.

 

In the case of the Sentinel, it wasn't a case of me trying to smear or attack the system, but a situation where I wanted to make sure the contradiction was addressed so that it could be corrected in future printings of the rulebook.

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