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LongDarkBlues

A few rules questions

17 posts in this topic

So, I played my second game tonight and we ran into a few things I didn't see (and perhaps missed) in the rules.

 

First, when a ranged unit causes a retreat on a unit that is straight down the hex edges so that there is no single opposite side, but rather 2 available backwards hexes, who determines where the unit retreats to?

 

2693613-8j9b.jpg

 

Second, is there a mechanic for removing lore cards from a faction's deck if the unit-specific cards don't (or didn't) have a mustered unit to be used on? In a 50 pt game I mustered neither the Chaos Lord or the Blood Harvesters, so it seemed like lore cards that only work for those characters should either be pulled from the deck or replaced when drawn rather than being punitive for not using those units (something I imagine is even more complicated if/when expansion units are introduced). Is there anything for command cards that don't have valid targets either, or are those just burned up by ordering a single unit?

 

Thanks!

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Hi, and welcome to the forum :)

 

First question: long story short, it should be the attacker who decides. There's quite a good explanation for this that probably Sigmazero will give you (in case he's still looking over this forum), but agreed, it's confusing, since you're not the first one asking this.

 

Second question: at the actual state of the game, there is nothing allowing any player to remove some useless lore cards from the deck. But remember you have always the option to draw two cards and then discard one from your hand during the lore step, so that you can get rid of the most useless in case of need.

 

Same for Command cards: nothing to discard them, but actually, as you've correctly stated, they can be used to order single units

 

Hope this helps

 

JULIA

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For the first question, there is something in the reference guide (I think it's under line of sight) that helps talk about this.  Basically, if you are tracing LOS, and the line goes in a hex corner like in your example, the attacker "nudges" the LOS so that it enters one hex side or the other (and checking for blocked hexes along that nudged line, as it will pass through one side or the other along the way).  Thus, by doing so, the attacker is choosing which direction the attack is coming from for the purposes of retreat, as well.

 

So in your above picture, the attacker could choose to nudge the line to either side, essentially choosing which way the defender retreats.  Strictly speaking, he does this BEFORE rolling dice, though.

 

However, let's say that the hex to the top-left of the blue dot had a hill in it.  In that case, if the attacker chose to "nudge" the line towards the left, it would cause the LOS to be blocked by the hill.  So the attacker would have to nudge the LOS to the right, which means in that case there is no "choice" for the attacker in terms of which way the retreat goes.

 

I hope that helps and makes sense :)

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Hey - after another dozen games I have a few more clarifications I was wondering about - I love the hell out of this game, but we've run into:

 

If you are stunned by the Rune Golems, do Retreats count as damage, since you can't Retreat?

 

Does the Daqan 'Battle Cry' card deal damage like a Retreat at the edge of the board or where units cannot move back, even though it says 'if able'?

 

Do the Uthuk Flesh-Ripper Brutes get to advance after Pursuing, even though the Pursue replaces the initial advance, is the resultant attack from Pursue it's own new combat sequence that gets an advance, or just an attack roll outside of that?

Edited by LongDarkBlues

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1. Yes. You cannot resolve the retreat, hence every flag becomes a damage. A good reason to spend 2 lore and remove that **** status token! :D

 

2. Battle Cry is not a retreat (ref guide, pag. 2), hence, if you are not able to move, you don't suffer damage

 

3. Pursue is used instead of Advancing, and you cannot advance further after resolving an attack due to Pursue

 

Hope this helps!

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I disagree with #3.  The second attack is a different attack, and you CAN advance if you push the 2nd target out of the hex.  You cannot PURSUE a second time, but you can ADVANCE into the space.

 

IE, if you have this:

 

XYoZu

 

X is Flesh Ripper, Y is target.

 

X attacks, pushes Y back 2 spaces to Z.  X moves to space o using Pursue, and attacks again.  Pushes target to "u".  Flesh Ripper CAN use advance to move into Z.  They cannot attack a third time.

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I disagree with #3.  The second attack is a different attack, and you CAN advance if you push the 2nd target out of the hex.  You cannot PURSUE a second time, but you can ADVANCE into the space.

 

Aye, Scott's right, apologies to the previous poster. Just rechecked the rules, there's nothing forbidding you from advancing more than once / turn. But you cannot Pursue more than once (ref guide, under Pursue, last bullet point)

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That was, indeed, the situation that brought that question up. Thanks for the clarification, both of you!

 

If anybody felt like tackling one more, I'm assuming the answer is 'no,' but would a stunned unit that was then killed still be able to take advantage of the Uthuk lore card Unstoppable?

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Basically, Unstoppable grants you one very last chance for glory before being elminated, allowing you to counter before the unit destruction. This doesn't mean that you can automatically counter regardless of all the other conditions. Unstoppable allows you to counter as if your unit was not eliminated and IF all the conditions for countering are satisfied. Id est: adjacency, no retreat and nothing hindering you from countering.

 

Since stun forbids countering, the answer is no, you cannot.

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Someone was asking about archer counters, and the other said that archers counter with pierce, is this right? I wasn't convinced, because it doesn't say in the rules that an archer unit always uses pierce.

 

In the rules pierce causes dmg with a ranged attack, so the golems can also use it instead of their normal attack in the scenario "Barrow Mounds of the Gatesmen", although they are melee units. 

 

So, until this point, we have agreed with my friend that archers can use either melee (cleave or strike) or a ranged attack when adjacent to an enemy unit, and then suffer the counter if using melee, or even use the advance. The archers always have their short swords handy, right?  ;)

 

But yesterday as the roc warrior was attacking my uthuk archers, we weren't sure whether to counter the bird with the melee or ranged dices, as the roc is flying and therefore is attacked with 1 fewer dice by melee units. So therefore, the archer wouldn't suffer this penalty, and would still roll 2 dice for the counter and hope for strike or cleave (as a strong unit)..?

 

Does someone have better knowledge regarding this issue? 

 

Oh, and one more question: 

The lore card "Death From Above" states that during my Attack step, i can perform 1 attack with an archer unit or a unit with the flying ability. Can I choose any unit to do this, even those I didn't order? Or then perform one additional attack with any of the ordered units?

 

Thanks.

 

Ps. Anxious about whether FFG will release any info about possible future expansions for Battlelore 2nd ed. or maintain the radio silence... Me wanting something... this game has so much expansion potential, let me assemble my host of filthy dwarves and just take my monies!!  :o

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Sorry, no short swords for Archers :P

 

Rules for countering read (ref guide, pag 3) - emphasys mine: "The player performs a combat roll for the countering unit following all the normal rules for a combat roll"

 

So, we need to look back as what the normal rules for combat are. If we go in the rulebook, pag 8, we read:

 

The active player declares the attack type for his attacking unit: melee or ranged as shown on the unit’s corresponding unit reference card.

 

Additionally, on the very same page, we read:

 

A unit with the ranged trait can only perform a ranged attack against a target unit that is within range and in line of sight.

 

So, there's no way Archers can resolve a melee attack, sorry. If they were allowed, they'd be the definitive unit: able to keep enemies at bay, and murdering them in melee. No way. Golems are allowed to use ranged attacks only in the scenario you mentioned. No probs with that, the golden rule instruct us to follow card text when in conflict with the rules. But in case of the archers, there's no card text overriding anything, so, you have to follow the rules

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As per your Death from the above Lore card question: indeed, its intent is to allow a not-ordered unit to perform an attack.

 

As per performing one extra attack with a unit that already attacked this round... rules clearly forbids to order the same unit more than once / round, but I don't see references to attacking, so, I'm inclined to see that yes, it's a legit move.

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Ok, thanks a bunch Julia, I must have missed that ranged trait vs ranged attack thing from the rulebook. I guess I got mixed up by the fact that the golems may use the ranged attack also in the said scenario. Much clearer for the archers now, and probably better this way.

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