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asmeus

Thror's key versus Surge

37 posts in this topic

 
Yeah but that rule is stupid. Not only dose it make the timing effects completely retarded, hence this thread, it also means that you can not read the card in the order it is printed. Making the entire game more confusing for new player. As well as removing tons of awesome effects and completely gutting how surge works.

This is the big problem with this game, it is so badly designed. The good news is that you can so easily improve it.

 

 

I agree that not resolving actions in the order they are read is a frustrating part of surge. What awesome effects are we missing out on, though? What do you mean the core rules are gutting how surge works? I'm just not sure how much you are gaining by changing the order of resolution as you advocate doing. Your previous example still would not have had the Archer dealing damage since his forced effect can't trigger off enemies already in play (he was the last reveal).

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that is how i read it as well, but there is an argument that the card reveals are all instant.

There are no action windows. Each player reveals their cards and then resolves them. The Archer effect is not a trigger but just forced. By the time the archer card is in the staging area and that text is active... all the other cards have been revealed and have entered. There is no timing information on the archer, it is not a response. So when you read the order of events all those crads are valid as they have all just entered the staging area in the same period of time as the forced text became active.

We ruled against this but the argument is sound. There is no ruling to say yay or nay on this on.

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that is how i read it as well, but there is an argument that the card reveals are all instant.

There are no action windows. Each player reveals their cards and then resolves them. The Archer effect is not a trigger but just forced. By the time the archer card is in the staging area and that text is active... all the other cards have been revealed and have entered. There is no timing information on the archer, it is not a response. So when you read the order of events all those crads are valid as they have all just entered the staging area in the same period of time as the forced text became active.

We ruled against this but the argument is sound. There is no ruling to say yay or nay on this on.

no, there is a ruling on this: the rulebook.

 

the archer does not place damage on on every enemy, in your example.

 

it is not unclear. it is your interpretation of the rules that doesn't mesh with what the rulebook actually says.

Edited by Dain Ironfoot
PsychoRocka likes this

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As I said (twice now) I agree with you, but that doesn't make the argument any less valid. There is no ruling on this. So your "opinion" is just that and no more correct than anyone else.

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As I said (twice now) I agree with you, but that doesn't make the argument any less valid. There is no ruling on this. So your "opinion" is just that and no more correct than anyone else.

yes, it does make your original argument less valid. it makes it total invalid.

 

spend less time making up your own rules, and focus on the actual rules, as written.

 

it seems that in just about every rules thread over the past 6 months, you've been ruled against by the designers, and the actual rulebook itself (or FAQ).

 

just because you think there isn't a ruling when it's perfectly crystal clear - doesn't mean there isn't one.

Edited by Dain Ironfoot
PsychoRocka likes this

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that is how i read it as well, but there is an argument that the card reveals are all instant.

There are no action windows. Each player reveals their cards and then resolves them. The Archer effect is not a trigger but just forced. By the time the archer card is in the staging area and that text is active... all the other cards have been revealed and have entered. There is no timing information on the archer, it is not a response. So when you read the order of events all those crads are valid as they have all just entered the staging area in the same period of time as the forced text became active.

We ruled against this but the argument is sound. There is no ruling to say yay or nay on this on.

Again, pages 23-24 of the rule book specifically explains this under the heading for Forced. I think it is pretty clear that there is a timing specified:

 

"They are denoted by a bold Forced: trigger on a card. These effects initiate and resolve immediately, whenever their specified prerequisite occurs." 

 

So when the Archer is in the staging area and after the next enemy is revealed from the encounter deck, immediately deal the 1 damage and then reveal the next card (if necessary for staging/surge).

 

RE: House rules. I think they are great and am interested in variants, but when people are discussing the core rules it doesn't help confused players to use your version of surge or staging instead of what's available in the core rules/FAQ.

 

EDIT: In my previous post I mentioned that there is nothing called a Forced Response, however the FAQ does appear to use the two interchangeably. This does not change that all printed cards use the Forced: trigger and, hence, the above rules. 

Edited by entMoot

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spend less time making up your own rules, and focus on the actual rules, as written.

 

 

\my rules are WAY better.

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spend less time making up your own rules, and focus on the actual rules, as written.

 

 

\my rules are WAY better.

 

says who? ;)

Edited by Dain Ironfoot

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