Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
That One Guy

Proximity Mines vs. Huge Template

32 posts in this topic

Does anyone know of any rule that exempts the Huge ships from following the "maneuver template overlap" rule of the Proximity Mines? Also I don't have any experience maneuvering the huge ships, so is it possible to turn in a direction without placing the template on the inside of the turn and still make the turn correctly? I mean, that template is huge so it seems like it would be a great way to use it against them...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is interesting, but considering the epic template doesn't actually occupy where the ship is moving through and the huge ship moves through itself more than anything else I would say no, template does not count for huge ships. Besides, they are easier to predict for actual bomb collisions anyway.

 

I would houserule this until FAQ clarifies.

 

Edit: Ok, looking at the CR-90 rulebook everything about obstacles and collisions specifically uses the phrase final position, nothing about maneuver template. Still this is not a direct clarification about proximity mines.

Edited by Skargoth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is interesting, but considering the epic template doesn't actually occupy where the ship is moving through and the huge ship moves through itself more than anything else I would say no, template does not count for huge ships. Besides, they are easier to predict for actual bomb collisions anyway.

 

I would houserule this until FAQ clarifies.

 

Edit: Ok, looking at the rulebook everything about obstacles and collisions specifically uses the phrase final position, nothing about maneuver template. Still this is not a direct clarification about proximity mines.

What That One Guy said, although the wording of the card has received errata in the latest FAQ to read:

 

“When a ship’s base or maneuver template overlaps

this token, this token detonates.”
(This was changed to reflect that a boost or barrel roll, which are not maneuvers, could also detonate the mine.)
 
Haven't looked yet but I don't think there's anything in the Huge Ship rules that would override card wording.
 
Seems a bit odd because of the size of the Huge template, but the wording is clear.
Edited by ziggy2000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems pretty clear to me:

 

Proximity_Mines.png

To clarify, I was looking at the CR-90 rulebook.

 

Does it really make sense that a huge ship's side template would trigger the mine if the ship doesn't actually go on that path? We're comparing wave 2 bomb and new special scenario conditions. I think it just needs to be FAQ'd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Does it really make sense that a huge ship's side template would trigger the mine if the ship doesn't actually go on that path? We're comparing wave 2 bomb and new special scenario conditions. I think it just needs to be FAQ'd.

 

No it doesn't, and it probably does need a FAQ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say if moving the base via template causes the base at any point to come into contact with the proximity mine then it is a hit. Even if you are doing a 2 turn with a regular ship. The range ruler might not come into contact with the mine but if you drag the base along the range ruler (as if you were moving from overlapping) and that base does come into contact during the move then it is an overlap.

 

With the epic ship first the base hardly moves. Even with a turn the base overlaps allot of it's last position. Also sliding it in a turn is fairly simple and if a proximity mine is in the path there would be no question if it contacts or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The range ruler might not come into contact with the mine but if you drag the base along the range ruler (as if you were moving from overlapping) and that base does come into contact during the move then it is an overlap.

This is absolutely wrong. Ships do not move along the maneuver template, they are simply placed at the end of it. All that matters for purposes of proximity mines is the final location of the ship (wherever it ends up) and the maneuver template. You are of course free to add a house rule that works differently, but please be clear that you are talking about your own new rule and not explaining the rules as published by FFG.

That One Guy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which is correct, and fine for smaller ships.  It means that a ship is only a manouvre template "wide" whilst moving (so the template can fit through a gap between asteroids that the ship's base couldn't, and no collision occurs).

 

The issue, as noted, is the huge ship manouvre template. It's placed at the side of the ship, meaning that a ship doesn't precisely move along it, which can lead to some silly contradictions.

 

That said:

 

SWX11-movement-diagram.png

 

You can never be in a situation where you 'skip over' a proximity mine: see the picture above - even a speed 4 straight only moves you your own length, hence your base will still end up on top of a proximity mine.

 

On a straight manouvre, you could potentially put the template down on either side of the ship, so you shouldn't set off a mine that's "off to one side of you".

 

The only time you really have an issue is if you're turning into the direction where a proximity mine is. And frankly, in that situation, I'm fine with you setting off the proximity mine....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Page 4 of huge ship rules:

overlapping obstacles

When a huge ship executes a maneuver and the final position of one of its sections overlaps one or more obstacle tokens, the huge ship is dealt one faceup Damage card. Draw this Damage card from the Damage deck that corresponds to the affected section. If both sections overlap, the opposing player chooses which section suffers the damage.

Obstacles do not cause a huge ship to skip its “Perform Action” step. All obstacle tokens that are overlapped by a huge ship are immediately removed from the play area.

The huge ship suffers these effects when one of its sections overlaps an obstacle, not when its maneuver template overlaps an obstacle.

While not specifically addressing proximity mines, if a maneuver template doesn't trigger an obstical overlap- faceup Damage card- it seems pretty likely that the maneuver template doesn't detonate a mine.

KILODEN likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Odds are this will be faqd to function like obstacles and huge templates. For now I plan on working off of this rules foundation, but RAW says Boom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Page 4 of huge ship rules:

overlapping obstacles

When a huge ship executes a maneuver and the final position of one of its sections overlaps one or more obstacle tokens, the huge ship is dealt one faceup Damage card. Draw this Damage card from the Damage deck that corresponds to the affected section. If both sections overlap, the opposing player chooses which section suffers the damage.

Obstacles do not cause a huge ship to skip its “Perform Action” step. All obstacle tokens that are overlapped by a huge ship are immediately removed from the play area.

The huge ship suffers these effects when one of its sections overlaps an obstacle, not when its maneuver template overlaps an obstacle.

While not specifically addressing proximity mines, if a maneuver template doesn't trigger an obstical overlap- faceup Damage card- it seems pretty likely that the maneuver template doesn't detonate a mine.

In some post on the forum the other day, it was mentioned that mines/bombs are not obstacles. I want to say to was in relation to the YT-2400 ignoring obstacles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Page 4 of huge ship rules:

overlapping obstacles

When a huge ship executes a maneuver and the final position of one of its sections overlaps one or more obstacle tokens, the huge ship is dealt one faceup Damage card. Draw this Damage card from the Damage deck that corresponds to the affected section. If both sections overlap, the opposing player chooses which section suffers the damage.

Obstacles do not cause a huge ship to skip its “Perform Action” step. All obstacle tokens that are overlapped by a huge ship are immediately removed from the play area.

The huge ship suffers these effects when one of its sections overlaps an obstacle, not when its maneuver template overlaps an obstacle.

While not specifically addressing proximity mines, if a maneuver template doesn't trigger an obstical overlap- faceup Damage card- it seems pretty likely that the maneuver template doesn't detonate a mine.

In some post on the forum the other day, it was mentioned that mines/bombs are not obstacles. I want to say to was in relation to the YT-2400 ignoring obstacles.

Correct. But that isn't to say they won't FAQ it for the same reason they made the templates ignore obstacles. He's looking at the reason behind the rule, more than at the rule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Page 4 of huge ship rules:

overlapping obstacles

When a huge ship executes a maneuver and the final position of one of its sections overlaps one or more obstacle tokens, the huge ship is dealt one faceup Damage card. Draw this Damage card from the Damage deck that corresponds to the affected section. If both sections overlap, the opposing player chooses which section suffers the damage.

Obstacles do not cause a huge ship to skip its “Perform Action” step. All obstacle tokens that are overlapped by a huge ship are immediately removed from the play area.

The huge ship suffers these effects when one of its sections overlaps an obstacle, not when its maneuver template overlaps an obstacle.

While not specifically addressing proximity mines, if a maneuver template doesn't trigger an obstical overlap- faceup Damage card- it seems pretty likely that the maneuver template doesn't detonate a mine.

 

+1 here... I believe this interpretation follows the spirit and consistency of Huge ship rules.  Until FAQed otherwise I would play template is not a trigger for bombs.

KILODEN likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah, my logical interpretation was that you treat the proximity mine like you would overlapping a ship or asteroid...so the template is ignored and it's just where the based goes and/or ends up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, since no rule explicitly states it, I'm going to keep going by the printed rule until they officially come out one way or the other.

Frankly, anything that makes them useable is worth it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I appreciate that everyone here has given good logical arguments and opinions, but my original question was specifically whether or not there existed a rule that addressed this. I don't play rebel so there's no need for Huge ship purchasing (i don't have income for "for funsies" purchasing), so I don't have access to those rules. Well, I suppose I could hunt them down online somewhere but I don't wanna.

 

So, since nothing was found, I'll just keep assuming they work how I think they do. Though one person did helpfully mention that the Huge ships say obstacles don't count if the template overlaps them, but the Using Bombs reference card states that bombs are not obstacles (or secondary weapons for that matter), so that doesn't help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I appreciate that everyone here has given good logical arguments and opinions, but my original question was specifically whether or not there existed a rule that addressed this. I don't play rebel so there's no need for Huge ship purchasing (i don't have income for "for funsies" purchasing), so I don't have access to those rules. Well, I suppose I could hunt them down online somewhere but I don't wanna.

 

So, since nothing was found, I'll just keep assuming they work how I think they do. Though one person did helpfully mention that the Huge ships say obstacles don't count if the template overlaps them, but the Using Bombs reference card states that bombs are not obstacles (or secondary weapons for that matter), so that doesn't help.

Several people have said quite specifically that there is no rule. We're just pointing out that you'll need to watch the next FAQ because it will almost certainly change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Hi, I play Imperial only. I'm mad that Rebels get huge ships so I'm going to use a loophole in the rules to abuse Imperial only weapons in ways that I know don't make sense because the publisher hasn't errata'd it yet."

NotBatman likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Hi, I play Imperial only. I'm mad that Rebels get huge ships so I'm going to use a loophole in the rules to abuse Imperial only weapons in ways that I know don't make sense because the publisher hasn't errata'd it yet."

Based on this, I'd tell your friend to eat the mine when he drops the movement template on it. People want to be idiots to others over a simple question that has a clear-cut answer(ATM) that they don't like. The card says base or movement template overlaps, boom. Just because you think it should be changed to accommodate huge ships doesn't mean it will. In the meantime, play it safe and follow the card.

That One Guy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0