Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Lady Kataline Jianwei

Dismantling, studying, and reproducing Archeotech.

129 posts in this topic

 

Sorry, I just had to get that silliness out of the way.  I'm with the naysayers, though- I don't think she'll be able to reverse-engineer a teleportarium on her own.  Of course, with help she might be able to do so.  Now, where does one go to find Techpriests willing to reverse-engineer things?  Hmm...

 

Take a trip through the Passage, but turn right at the 13th Station of Passage into the Vortex before you reach Port Wander. Assuming you don't get ripped apart by the storm, head for the Hollows. The Dark Mechanicus will be more than happy to provide you with teleporter tech.

 

Of course, theirs may be...err...less than sanctioned? But it will work. Especially if kept well-fed (don't ask).

Darth Smeg, El_Jairo and Tenebrae like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, I just had to get that silliness out of the way.  I'm with the naysayers, though- I don't think she'll be able to reverse-engineer a teleportarium on her own.  Of course, with help she might be able to do so.  Now, where does one go to find Techpriests willing to reverse-engineer things?  Hmm...

 

Go to 'Undred-'Undred-Teef and side with the Mekboy faction in their civil war. Give them the technology they need to gain superiority in their conflict, and they will reverse-engineer and produce dozens of them in a matter of weeks.

 

When YOU try to use the Teleporter it'll explode on you at best, or teleport only the parts of you that are red at worst (so dat dey go da fastest!) but at least you'll prove it can be done.

Darth Smeg and WeedyGrot like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good God-Emperor on his Golden Chair, she's a Seneschal, not a Tech-priest.  She should know just enough about Archeotech to be able to teleport a team of murder-servitors, Ogryns, home-made Astartes and the newest graduates from your personal Eversor satellite temple onto a rival Rogue Trader's bridge, then cackle "Just as planned" in a sinister manner while she watches the mayhem ensue.

 

She should be developing spy networks that put the Inquisition to shame, assassin schools that embarrass the Vindicare, and stormtrooper training programs that produce troops of such quality that she is revealed to have been the second and eleventh primarchs, and she was just lost in time and space all this time.  She should be buying Forge Worlds, not teleportaria, and making tests to acquire armaments to outfit the Titan Legion that she bought the Rogue Trader for his birthday, but don't tell him, it's a surprise.

 

Sorry, I just had to get that silliness out of the way.  I'm with the naysayers, though- I don't think she'll be able to reverse-engineer a teleportarium on her own.  Of course, with help she might be able to do so.  Now, where does one go to find Techpriests willing to reverse-engineer things?  Hmm...

 

 

I'd second Annaamarth on that. She should play to her strengths, say: buy blue prints from DE for some xeno slaves. For DE it should be only some crappy, primitive science to chew through. Yep, no risk at all.

 

You guys are only encouraging her you know. Between the lack of a PC Tech Priest and the fact she tends to play brainy support characters with a bent for tech use, her interests are more down the path of a Tech Priest than a Senechal. And I never said she was a good Senechal. And she refuses to admit that flesh is weak and get proper mechanical parts installed unless absolutely necessary.

 

Huge thanks to everyone that replied. It was a learning experience and fun to boot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Happy to help!  For my quick two cents, I would let her go ahead and try...but then just have it explode and take her with it on a trip to the middle of Tzeench's magical crystal corn maze of fun and mystery if she rolls anything but a 1 on her check!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. I am allways interested in other people's interpretations of Archeotech.  In your situation I do not believe that she has much chance of accomplishing her goal.  Why?  First you need your definition of Archeotech.  Mine is, technology and devices that are not longer understood or produced in the Mechanicum except for ancient manufactorums run by wrote.  That occurs when the STC for an item becomes so corrupted that no Forge World can build one, and when the basic understanding of a device is lost.  There are a number of things built during the Great Crusade that are now Archeotech.  It is possible that discovery of an STC or several STC fragments might allow reconstruction of such devices, at that point it is no longer archeotech.  That is one of the reasons even an STC fragment is incredibly valuable.  Reverse engineering Archeotech may be possible, provided there are sufficient fragments of the original STC and physical examples to study.  This would be an effort of decades/centuries with dedicated, skilled, and potentially expendable researchers.  In addition, a lot of Archeotech is made out of materials that the Mechanicum does not know how to make or shape, which may require its own research.  Obviously, remaking things the Mechanicum made during the Great Crusade makes all this much more likely.  This is a lot of the research I see the Mechanicum doing.  Often pouring over STC fragments and looking to fill in the holes.

 

To give an example, in my game the Explorator has been looking for a way to recreate STC water purifiers from Ancient Life Sustainers since the beginning of the campaign.  He has Ancient Life Sustainers on his ship, he has two research colonies where research on modern life sustainers and Ancient Life Sustainers has been ongoing for decades.  He has a 108 Tech-use and Forbidden Lore: Archeotech.  He has spent 20+ hours a week for the last 40 years researching it, with the aid of numerous assistants.  He recently traveled to Aubray's Anvil, where after a number of fleet actions and harrowing encounters with Yu'vath constructs and ancient defense systems he discovered a Voidship Component manufactorum where someone left their datapad with the work they were doing on an B-006-A1 Life Support System.  Now, he is working on the final research project to create a Archeotech Water Purifier and the necessary STC.  He will probalby finish near the time he hits Rank 8, and he has been working on it his whole career.  He chose to do water purifiers first because he wants to create a more efficient/effective purifier for everything from ships to hives.  The idea being that it is a ubiquous item that will improve the life of most of the humans in the Imperium.  Next, he is going to use the same data/methods to try and improve air purifiers.  Unfortunately, even with meticulous notes and a good number or contacts in the Mechanicum, he expects it to take decades to approve and centuries to deploy.  The party, however, will begin retrofitting imediately.

 

Warp tech I believe would be even more difficult, as well as being a LOT more dangerous.

El_Jairo, Erathia, Marwynn and 1 other like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want to correct you on one thing. You cannot create an STC. The STC is the actual machine that makes STC blueprints, and even if you make a blueprint, it is not an STC blueprint, since it was not made by an STC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Generally speaking, the Adeptus Mechanicus owns the complete and total monopoly on almost all human technology.  Archeotech is to be turned over the the AdMech immediately upon acquiring it.  Despite the fact that the ships Enginseer is likely a member of the AdMech in mostly good standing, he/she is "errant" as a member of the Dynasty.  As such, if he/she was found fooling around with a piece of archeotech independent of AdMech oversight, the repercussions would be immediate and VERY serious.

 

As a GM, I tend to play as close to the fluff as possible.  And my reading of it would make doing what is being suggested equivalent to tech-heresy, earning the dynasty an ultimatum (at the least) and perhaps far, far worse. 

El_Jairo likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True.  It wouldn't be an actual STC blueprint, but that is the term that most people use for it.  STC is used interchangeably for STC machines and the blueprints.  There are actually no STC blueprints for lots of things, they are instead made of STC technology arranged in some useful pattern.  Land Speeders are a good example of something people consider to be STC items that are not.  They were actually vehicles designed around the STC pattern for grav plates found by Land under Mars.  Many of the variants for different items such as Leman Russ tanks are actually only partially STC blueprints.  Of course if you were to have some ancient copy of an 'STC Fragment' written in some tome 6000 years ago it wouldn't technically be an 'STC blueprint' but the Mechanicum might well consider it one.  The reality is that there aren't any STCs or STC blueprints in existance any more, or if there are they are rediculously rare and stored away in a stasis chamber.  The 'STCs and STC blueprints' that the Mechanicum uses to construct things are actually copies of copies of copies....of copies of printouts and bits of other copies painstakingly reassembled and replicated through the millennia.  The Mechanicum calls these STC designs or STC blueprints still.  When the Explorator is done he will have an 'STC design' as it is based on STC technology, much like many of the designs used in the Mechanicum. Of course, this is after it is vetted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

William, I disagree with you on so many levels, but you're none the less free to do as you wish.

 

As for Traejun, I sincerely question your statement. The abundance of archeotech both in the equipment and ship component lists makes me suspect that archeotech was in fact intended to be usable.

 

Also, the fluff can be interpreted in a myriad of different ways, depending on your sources and preferences, so claiming that you play "as close to the fluff as possible" is, quite frankly, nothing short of empty bragging.

Fgdsfg likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it was that easy, doesn't she think the world 999.M41 would look different from it does? Sure, her PC can try. What she can expect is a -60 test without Fate Point use. With a base time of at least a decade.

 

This is a baseline GMs should always remember: there is some reason for why the setting is the way it is. Why do players always think just because they play heroes, they can do things that have the potential to rewrite the universe they are playing in? Not saying it can't happen but it should be a unique, momentous occasion and the GM should consider the implications. In particular if he wants to continue playing in the altered setting.

 

If archaeotech (except under near impossible circumstances) can be reverse engineered, we're no longer in a declining Imperium of Man. This is a complete setting rewrite.

 

Alex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If archaeotech (except under near impossible circumstances) can be reverse engineered, we're no longer in a declining Imperium of Man. This is a complete setting rewrite.

 

Why? Just because a random dude managed to rebuild some archeotech stuff in a tech base around the Emperor-Only-Knows-Where Sector it doesn't mean that suddenly everyone becomes capable of doing so. Hell, it would barely make a difference within the sector... A drop of blood can't color the whole sea red, so to say. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure. But don't you think that many gifted Magos have tried and failed? If the players can do it without it being a unique occasion, what message does that send? And after the Teleportarium, what are the chances your players will stop there?

 

This can only be permissible if the GM wants the narrative to revolve around the theme of reverse engineering. The whole thing smells like thinly veiled power-gaming and not like having a focus on storytelling. If that's what you want, more power to you. For me, it breaks suspension of disbelief, as I, in fact, consider it a form meta-gaming, ie approaching the 41st millenium with a 21st century mindset.

 

Alex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure. But don't you think that many gifted Magos have tried and failed? If the players can do it without it being a unique occasion, what message does that send? And after the Teleportarium, what are the chances your players will stop there?

 

I don't think that many Magos have tried and failed. They probably tried and succeeded. Then 'meh'-ed out and moved on to more pressing concerns like politics. Yeah, the Magos has a huge teleportatium factory collecting dust under his living chambers but it won't change anything because the Magos is in no mood to actually use it. Why? Because he doesn't care - he is busy worshiping his machines, doing other tech projects and forwarding his political agenda. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

he is busy worshiping his machines, doing other tech projects and forwarding his political agenda. 

 

Because clearly, the praise, fame and unspeakable wealth he'd garner from recreating one of the ancestors' most holy and useful machines, never mind progressing the AdMech's understanding of warp-science by several thousand years would not further any of his goals at all.

 

What are you even saying?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, what (how much) does it take to becoming mass-produced from there? Because there is clearly high demand.

 

 

 

he is busy worshiping his machines, doing other tech projects and forwarding his political agenda. 

 

 

And he is risking the most sacred of knowledge getting lost again, if he does not spread it.

 

Alex

Edited by ak-73

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't subscribe specifically to the stagnant and declining tech level view of the Imperium. I prefer a dynamic exchange between recovering and losing tech, with a net loss of technology in the end. Allows for fortunes to be made and lost and is somehow more tragic to me. 

 

It's also mentioned that the Imperium does recover a lot of technology and lose access to many other technologies several times in various pieces of fluff. 

 

That one victory, despite all the odds, is just one bandage against the ruptured body of the Imperium. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't subscribe specifically to the stagnant and declining tech level view of the Imperium. I prefer a dynamic exchange between recovering and losing tech, with a net loss of technology in the end. Allows for fortunes to be made and lost and is somehow more tragic to me. 

 

It's also mentioned that the Imperium does recover a lot of technology and lose access to many other technologies several times in various pieces of fluff. 

 

That one victory, despite all the odds, is just one bandage against the ruptured body of the Imperium. 

I am with you here!  For every old discovery brought back into the fold there is a forge world that falls to the implacable advance of mankind's many enemies and takes the secrets they fought so hard to uncover back with it.  It is a much more dynamic situation for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"If archaeotech (except under near impossible circumstances) can be reverse engineered, we're no longer in a declining Imperium of Man. This is a complete setting rewrite.

 

Change on emphasis to drive the point home.

 

Alex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

he is busy worshiping his machines, doing other tech projects and forwarding his political agenda. 

 

Because clearly, the praise, fame and unspeakable wealth he'd garner from recreating one of the ancestors' most holy and useful machines, never mind progressing the AdMech's understanding of warp-science by several thousand years would not further any of his goals at all.

 

The problem is that the Magos in question couldn't see this and thus he wouldn't care at all. It is just the usual Imperial ignorance, the real obstacle of progression. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't subscribe specifically to the stagnant and declining tech level view of the Imperium. I prefer a dynamic exchange between recovering and losing tech, with a net loss of technology in the end. Allows for fortunes to be made and lost and is somehow more tragic to me. 

 

It's also mentioned that the Imperium does recover a lot of technology and lose access to many other technologies several times in various pieces of fluff. 

 

That one victory, despite all the odds, is just one bandage against the ruptured body of the Imperium. 

I also agree with this. It is specifically the mandate of the Explorators to research and recover "lost" technology and STC's. This is why they serve with rogue traders rather than your run of the mill Tech priests whose sole purpose would be the maintenance of your Starship! To suggest that archeotech cannot be recovered or reproduced is to defy the entire reason for the Explorator's existence! Explorators are researchers, archealogists, engineers and scientist as necessary to achieve this specific goal! Of course, That doesn't make it easy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

William, I disagree with you on so many levels, but you're none the less free to do as you wish.

 

As for Traejun, I sincerely question your statement. The abundance of archeotech both in the equipment and ship component lists makes me suspect that archeotech was in fact intended to be usable.

 

Also, the fluff can be interpreted in a myriad of different ways, depending on your sources and preferences, so claiming that you play "as close to the fluff as possible" is, quite frankly, nothing short of empty bragging.

 

I disagree with you on so many levels that I have neither the time nor inclination to go into every single one.  I will, however, leave with these:

 

1. Saying I stay as close to the fluff as possible isn't bragging.  If you truly think it is - rather than you being upset that I disagree with you on this issue - then perhaps you should think about focusing on your own insecurity rather than Archeotech.  Just sayin'

 

2. You're free to do whatever you want with the games you GM.  You want Archeotech to be "abundant," go for it.  Your game, your rules.

 

3. (see bolded portion) Archeotech is neither abundant in the fluff nor in the equipment lists.  A handful of components in a few books does not make things abundant, it in fact shows just how rare such items are that there's a fraction as many of those as there are of more standard equipment.  Furthermore, actually obtaining even one of those items requires effort and a whole hell of a lot of luck.  Calling that abundant is plainly a misnomer.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Core Rulebook does say that the way to acquire Archeotech is through a limited number of methods:

 

1) The Reliquary of Mars ship creation path

2) The players earn one through their Warrant of Trade

3) The GM decides that they can find one.

 

I imagine that Teleporters are Very Rare for an example of Archeotech, but are still much rarer than any other manufactured component. It's almost like the ancient and wiser predecessors of the Imperium realised how incredibly useful they would be and produced far more than they needed so that they'd never run out!

 

Ha ha! Grimdarkness!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"If archaeotech (except under near impossible circumstances) can be reverse engineered, we're no longer in a declining Imperium of Man. This is a complete setting rewrite.

 

Change on emphasis to drive the point home.

 

Alex

 

You do realize that you can even have advancing technology and still have a declining IoM right?  The decline of the IoM is more cultural than technological.  And tech gets reverse engineered all the time in fluff.  A STC find on a space hulk for example is usually an example of that STC, not a literal diagram of the item.

 

Remember that the reason that technology is failing is NOT that admech etc do not understand it, it's that knowledge is hoarded and controlled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

"If archaeotech (except under near impossible circumstances) can be reverse engineered, we're no longer in a declining Imperium of Man. This is a complete setting rewrite.

 

Change on emphasis to drive the point home.

 

Alex

 

You do realize that you can even have advancing technology and still have a declining IoM right?  The decline of the IoM is more cultural than technological.  And tech gets reverse engineered all the time in fluff.  A STC find on a space hulk for example is usually an example of that STC, not a literal diagram of the item.

 

Remember that the reason that technology is failing is NOT that admech etc do not understand it, it's that knowledge is hoarded and controlled.

 

 

The decline of the IoM is both cultural and technological... simultaneously.  On balance, mankind has lost WAY more technological capability than it has gained in the last 10,000 years.  The only real advancements have been through STC discoveries... while during the same period, the capability to construct Terminator armour, volkite weaponry and many many voidship components has been outright lost.  And that's just a few examples.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0