Jump to content
FTS Gecko

XG-1 "Star Wing" Assault Gunboat Thread

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Yeah, that worries me.  I'm aware that I'm kind of a cannon curmudgeon.  I really hope the text on it makes it somewhat niche.

I hope it's not too niche, we could use some better cannons, and even if it isn't limited by text, it's limited by lacking r1 bonus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just don't agree that we need better cannons.

Dorsal Turret and Ion Cannon Turret handle most of that (It'd be nice to have some weak, 2-dice, range 2-3 turret, just to allow that as an option), and I think with Autoblasters added to Ion, we're actually in a decent-enough spot with cannons.  I really don't want stronger ones coming along, now that B-Wings are getting double-taps.

But some of that is preference.  I think cannons are fine.  Most generics are fine.  The issue is the top end.  I'd rather not power creep cannons and generics to the level of Jedi.  The gap should be narrowed, to be sure, but folks can disagree about from which side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

*shrug*

My point is that having the basic options--2 dice plain (with the handy bullseye and crit perks), 3 dice ion--with a few spicy options like HLC and Tractor is enough.

And I disagree.

HLC rarely lines up(it's utterly useless on low initiative ships), tractor isn't damage(and has been nerfed and has further nerfs lined up). Autoblaster is the best of the bunch and it's still pretty limited. If the new cannon is indeed just a straight up 3 dice range 2-3 attack, it's sort of the inverse of the autoblaster. Like a 3 dice gun at range 2-3, but not at r1(so it's not just a 3 dice gun cannon), while autoblaster is like a 3 dice gun in bullseye at r1-2. Autoblaster bullseye isn't that hard to line up at close range.

So basically: autoblaster is better for up close, new cannon is better for mid-long range. Seems fine with me.

Edited by Cerebrawl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

We don't need better cannons, we need cheaper cannons.

What if we got a costs back on the configurations?  Does that make sense?  Maybe XG-1 at 0, OS-1 at 1, but the base Gunboat cost down?  Could that work to buff cannon gunboats a bit, without causing other problems?

Hrm.

Naw, that doesn't really work.

Passive Sensor gunboats don't really need OS-1 too much, so they'd just get a straight buff.  There could be tweaks to gunboat balance that would be good, but I don't think this would be one of them.  I think it'd be better to leave XG-1 and OS-1 at the same price.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

What if we got a costs back on the configurations?  Does that make sense?  Maybe XG-1 at 0, OS-1 at 1, but the base Gunboat cost down?  Could that work to buff cannon gunboats a bit, without causing other problems?

Hrm.

Naw, that doesn't really work.

Passive Sensor gunboats don't really need OS-1 too much, so they'd just get a straight buff.  There could be tweaks to gunboat balance that would be good, but I don't think this would be one of them.  I think it'd be better to leave XG-1 and OS-1 at the same price.

Oh, right, this is the gunboat thread, lol.

Uh, well in the Gunboat's case, the inability to double tap at all is kind of its biggest weakness. Now there's really cool-*** ways to fly the XG-1 in this game, but they all require SLAM and patience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

Now there's really cool-*** ways to fly the XG-1 in this game, but they all require [...] patience.

Which is kind of a problem in a time-limited game.

Gunboats feel like they've got so many sweet tools, but the time it takes for a SLAM ship to get back into a game after an initial pass seems... prohibitive.  I don't think that calls for a massive gunboat shakeup, but for as nifty as they can be, Gunboats can be awkward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Also, I think the Ion Cannon is good, even if you can't build a whole list of it and expect it to do well.  Pure Gunboat Cannon Spam, like most pure spam lists, should be somewhat limited in usefulness.

I have wondered about trying a scyk swarm with them (6 ships with a 3-dice attack cannon is no joke even with a 1-damage limit), but I've never gotten round to it.

Besides which I suspect even then you'd be best off using a mix of ion cannons to make the enemy predictable and heavy laser cannons to slap them about the head and neck once you do so.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Yeah, that worries me.  I'm aware that I'm kind of a cannon curmudgeon.  I really hope the text on it makes it somewhat niche.

They have fully obscured the text (maybe deliberately), so we'll wait and see. I wouldn't be totally shocked to see a strain-cannon as a 'modernised' version of the flechette cannon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Which is kind of a problem in a time-limited game.

Gunboats feel like they've got so many sweet tools, but the time it takes for a SLAM ship to get back into a game after an initial pass seems... prohibitive.  I don't think that calls for a massive gunboat shakeup, but for as nifty as they can be, Gunboats can be awkward.

 

This is the biggest problem with Gunboats competitively. I took them to a regional way back in 1E and I quickly realized their limitations in a timed competitive format. I had at least 2 games go to time while I still had healthy Gunboats that I just didn't have the time to get them back into the fight to kill something to win. Between slamming and reloading ordnance they just take a lot of time to finish off some opponents. Until FFG actually does start including scenarios in OP, I just don't see a Gunboat centric list being competitive. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

They have fully obscured the text (maybe deliberately), so we'll wait and see. I wouldn't be totally shocked to see a strain-cannon as a 'modernised' version of the flechette cannon.

I don't really like the thought of a strain cannon, since strain is basically Wedge.  Putting one or more strain on someone really helps push more damage *right now*.  The saving grace of Tractor Beam is you don't get to deal damage with it.

19 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I have wondered about trying a scyk swarm with them (6 ships with a 3-dice attack cannon is no joke even with a 1-damage limit), but I've never gotten round to it.

Besides which I suspect even then you'd be best off using a mix of ion cannons to make the enemy predictable and heavy laser cannons to slap them about the head and neck once you do so.

I'm a bit of a broken record with my Fenn Rau + Ion Scyks.  Either 3 Ion + Autoblasters Sunny, or 4 Ion.  I think it kinda works.  Mix in about 30%-50% of your list as actual-damage, and the Ion control works really well.

I'm not sure the best way to organize an Imperial list around the same principle (mix Ion gunboats with Ion Turret Aggressors?), but the core idea doesn't seem too bad to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

 

This is the biggest problem with Gunboats competitively. I took them to a regional way back in 1E and I quickly realized their limitations in a timed competitive format. I had at least 2 games go to time while I still had healthy Gunboats that I just didn't have the time to get them back into the fight to kill something to win. Between slamming and reloading ordnance they just take a lot of time to finish off some opponents. Until FFG actually does start including scenarios in OP, I just don't see a Gunboat centric list being competitive. 

At the same time, I think it's likely that a bit of a nudge could also put them really over the top.  SLAM ships can run away FAST and a slight points lead from an early alpha strike is perhaps something which could be preserved.  Like, if they got actually-good, we'd probably all really hate them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

 

This is the biggest problem with Gunboats competitively. I took them to a regional way back in 1E and I quickly realized their limitations in a timed competitive format. I had at least 2 games go to time while I still had healthy Gunboats that I just didn't have the time to get them back into the fight to kill something to win. Between slamming and reloading ordnance they just take a lot of time to finish off some opponents. Until FFG actually does start including scenarios in OP, I just don't see a Gunboat centric list being competitive. 

...what were you flying? I flew gunboats at regionals at the end of 1e and almost none of my games ever went to time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I'm a bit of a broken record with my Fenn Rau + Ion Scyks.  Either 3 Ion + Autoblasters Sunny, or 4 Ion.  I think it kinda works.  Mix in about 30%-50% of your list as actual-damage, and the Ion control works really well.

And... this just got a TONNE better.  Used to run 0-1 points of bid, with no talent on Fenn.  Now the list has 8-9 points of bid before taking a talent, so I could bring Fearlessness Fenn with a 5-6 point bid.  That's going to feel a lot nicer.

///

Gunboats... they kinda got the shaft this round, didn't they?  Scyks got their price reduced, and wound up net positive with the cannon updates.  Final XG-1 builds all got a 1 point nerf, and there aren't really any tempting new options for anyone else.  Saturation Salvo still overpriced at 5 points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...