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XG-1 "Star Wing" Assault Gunboat Thread

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19 minutes ago, All Shields Forward said:

Given the current power level of cannons, would a rule to allow any cannon to be fired in addition to the primary have been so broken?

Yes, I think this would be broken. The gunboat configurations allow you to shoot after slamming but heavily restrict your firepower when you do so. Even just allowing a primary weapon shot (instead of a cannon) when slamming would be quite good. Allowing both would be a bit too good.

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2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

**** yes.

Next question.

What if you could fire a cannon you wouldn't ever think on spending your attack firing with, but as a bonus attack in the Systems phase?
I am not sure what power level this card would be.

  • Broken overpowered level?
  • "I rather keep my Fire Control System, thanks" level?

PASSIVE%20BEAM%20EMITTER_Azrapse_1.png

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On 2/19/2019 at 12:57 PM, urbanyeti said:

Wave 4 looks like it will have a couple of new munitions which of course means new gunboat toys! I’m particularly excited to find out what 2.0 plasma torps do/cost. Same with the cannon in the resistance shuttle pack. 

New toys are good for ALL factions... but yes, I am VERY curious as to what they are, what the do, and what platforms will make them shine ^_^

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9 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

What if you could fire a cannon you wouldn't ever think on spending your attack firing with, but as a bonus attack in the Systems phase?
I am not sure what power level this card would be.

  • Broken overpowered level?
  • "I rather keep my Fire Control System, thanks" level?

PASSIVE%20BEAM%20EMITTER_Azrapse_1.png

Fun idea for sure but I suspect it would be too good. Dropping a jam token on ships before anything would be very strong. Especially given the cost of a jamming beam. Also, the ion interaction there would be challenging. I could be wrong (probably am) but would getting ioned in the system phase negate the dial that was set in planning? 

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4 minutes ago, urbanyeti said:

Fun idea for sure but I suspect it would be too good. Dropping a jam token on ships before anything would be very strong. Especially given the cost of a jamming beam. Also, the ion interaction there would be challenging. I could be wrong (probably am) but would getting ioned in the system phase negate the dial that was set in planning? 

Only Beam cannons. So no Ion.
Also, I am not sure if the gunboat would have it that easy to get someone in their bullseye arc.

Edited by Azrapse

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37 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

Only Beam cannons. So no Ion.
Also, I am not sure if the gunboat would have it that easy to get someone in their bullseye arc.

I’m concerned about my reading  comprehension... 

I think that would be a ton on fun! Bullseye would be very reasonable. 

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4 hours ago, All Shields Forward said:

Given the current power level of cannons, would a rule to allow any cannon to be fired in addition to the primary have been so broken?

Given that y-wings can double tap for a similar price (43 for GSP, VTG, IT VS NU, IC, AS for 40) I’m going to say no, it isn’t broken, but it would probably mean the Gunboat or associated title would increase in points to the level where you could fly only four in a list.

Edited by Estarriol

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4 hours ago, Azrapse said:

What if you could fire a cannon you wouldn't ever think on spending your attack firing with, but as a bonus attack in the Systems phase?
I am not sure what power level this card would be.

  • Broken overpowered level?
  • "I rather keep my Fire Control System, thanks" level?

PASSIVE%20BEAM%20EMITTER_Azrapse_1.png

If they actually put a Beam keyword on them like they did Bomb and Mine, maybe...

 

It's pretty stronk, but it's unlikely to do much against key targets unmodded.  The biggest use would be shutting down Phantoms and Defenders and N1s free evades.

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1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

If they actually put a Beam keyword on them like they did Bomb and Mine, maybe...

 

It's pretty stronk, but it's unlikely to do much against key targets unmodded.  The biggest use would be shutting down Phantoms and Defenders and N1s free evades.

Hmm. In the Systems phase most ships are tokenless, so even an unmodded beam shot would be able to land some token against everyone except Force users.
A Jam token would remain until the Activation phase, cancelling out the green tokens or locks that they would acquire then. No need to be specific to ship that can keep tokens between rounds.
A Tractor token could be devastating against anyone that depends on performing their maneuver without bumping other ships or asteroids.

Still, really hard to pull for a gunboat. A B-wing would have it easier.

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7 hours ago, Azrapse said:

What if you could fire a cannon you wouldn't ever think on spending your attack firing with, but as a bonus attack in the Systems phase?
I am not sure what power level this card would be.

  • Broken overpowered level?
  • "I rather keep my Fire Control System, thanks" level?

PASSIVE%20BEAM%20EMITTER_Azrapse_1.png

That might work at the right price.  Bullseye restriction, plus limited cannons.

I'm a bit worried on Tractor (I played enough TIE/d in 1e to know how potent a tractor+primary can be), but the timing and arc restrictions are probably there.  That timing is pretty interesting too.  Enemies will know exactly what ships are getting beamed before setting dials.  Seems like it'd be cool to playtest.  The fact that no one has actions yet is something kind of unpredictable.

6 hours ago, Estarriol said:

Given that y-wings can double tap for a similar price (43 for GSP, VTG, IT VS NU, IC, AS for 40) I’m going to say no, it isn’t broken, but it would probably mean the Gunboat or associated title would increase in points to the level where you could fly only four in a list.

Y-Wings are exactly why I think a double-tap with a gunboat Ion Cannon would kind of be a problem.  They got a massive 5-point cost reduction, and instantly became a really strong ship.  Might have been a bit of an over-correction.  Meanwhile, although a Turret can be rotated, the fact that they're missing the Range 3 attack band is huge.  Cannons by and large don't have that limitation.  I've flown enough Ion Cannons to feel how much of an improvement over a 2-dice primary they can be, and gunboat weight of fire--even with something like an 8-10 point Sensor which allowed double taps--scares me.

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So, my local meta seems to be gearing up toward five and six ship lists. My current Vessery/Nu/Vynder is... okay. It dishes out reasonable damage and is fast enough to out play against anyone flying in formation... but I worry about 4xY wings and Drea remains tricky.

Has anyone here flown the 5 x Nu Ion Cannon list? Is it *good* or is it just fun to put on the table?

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1 hour ago, Estarriol said:

Has anyone here flown the 5 x Nu Ion Cannon list? Is it *good* or is it just fun to put on the table?

It's... a little frustrating (because of the low damage output).

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1 hour ago, william1134 said:

I haven't flown it but I can't imagine it is *good* due to the limited damage output and I can't imagine it is fun either for your opponent being ioned all day long.

Ion is not particularly strong in my limited experience. Trying to get two uncancelled hits on a three dice attack is not easy! I don’t expect to ionise things very often. I see the strength being a decent chunk of health, fast ships and the fact it would look cool on the table.

 

I’d far rather fly my Defender/Gunboats as it’s a list I came up with myself, I just don’t think it’s good enough to do well.

Other decent ideas gratefully received!

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I've had a good experience with 4x Ion Scyks and Fenn Rau. I tend to think Ion Cannons are fine, on ships of the right price.  I think a 40 point Nu with ASLAM is probably one of those ships with a decent-enough price.  T-70 statline, for 6 points cheaper.  On paper, that's pretty decent value.

I don't know that 5x Nu is the right list, though.

You'll do worse in a joust than a lot of heavy swarms, since you don't have K-Turns.  While I think Ions are good, there gets to a point where it's redundant.  A Y-Wing isn't going care about any more than the first Ion token.  Oh dang.  Ion seems so bad against Y-Wings, unless you're able to get behind and perma-ion them.  That's a weakness of Ion: it's really meta-dependent.  I feel like 5x Ion Nus would do better against a list like low ship count aces.  The kinds of ships with low HP that you only need to tag a few times to seriously harm.

And in general, a list like 3x Ion Nus and Whisper would probably be really good.  Whisper has always been strong against ships she can outmaneuver, and Ion helps make anything lose maneuverability.  Lots of arcs and stats for the aces to deal with, too.  Actually, 4x Nus with Ion Cannons but without ASLAM would fit along a no-Talent, no-Bid Soontir Fel.  That also might be decent.

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I’m saddened by news from Toronto. Only one list with Gunboats and it made 123.

All the Imperials that made the cut had phantoms. Whisper and Vader plus one seem the concept to go for in that meta.

Also while I was watching I doodled this. It’s a lot of hitpoints, and if they gun for whisper they’re eating APT. Like?

Recon

(32) Nu Squadron Pilot
(0) Os-1 Arsenal Loadout
(3) Advanced SLAM
(2) Fire-Control System
(6) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
(4) Ion Missiles
Points 47

(32) Nu Squadron Pilot
(0) Os-1 Arsenal Loadout
(3) Advanced SLAM
(2) Fire-Control System
(6) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
(4) Ion Missiles
Points 47

(54) "Whisper"
(5) Juke
Points 59

(32) Nu Squadron Pilot
(0) Os-1 Arsenal Loadout
(4) Ion Missiles
(3) Advanced SLAM
(2) Fire-Control System
(6) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
Points 47

Total points: 200

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Five Gunboats just stole a Wave 2 extended tourney here in Springfield, MO. 

I'll post the list as soon as I can get it. 

EDIT:

Looks like OS-1s with Barrage Rockets.

 5-pt bid. 

Edited by Bucknife

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3 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Five Gunboats just stole a Wave 2 extended tourney here in Springfield, MO. 

I'll post the list as soon as I can get it. 

EDIT:

Looks like OS-1s with Barrage Rockets.

 5-pt bid. 

5x Barrage is just a lot of stats.  Hard to use Barrage while SLAMing, but it's hard for a Bomber to use Barrage while K-Turning, so it works out.

Never thought about the list before.  It wasn't legal before the adjustment, then Barrage went up, so I bet a lot of folks just forgot about the option.

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19 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

5x Barrage is just a lot of stats.  Hard to use Barrage while SLAMing, but it's hard for a Bomber to use Barrage while K-Turning, so it works out.

Never thought about the list before.  It wasn't legal before the adjustment, then Barrage went up, so I bet a lot of folks just forgot about the option.

It's bonkers. I think it'll make top 8 or 16 next big event. 

What if we gave T65s slam for damage shuffling and then let you put 5 in a list. 

Can't believe nobody took it to Toronto.

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1 minute ago, Bucknife said:

It's bonkers. I think it'll make top 8 or 16 next big event. 

What if we gave T65s slam for damage shuffling and then let you put 5 in a list. 

Can't believe nobody took it to Toronto.

Offense does goes away entirely if you do SLAM, and other than SLAM there isn't any re-positioning.  So it's big stats, but very little else.

Barrage Rockets were just a terrible design idea, IMHO.  They keep causing problems.

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1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

Offense does goes away entirely if you do SLAM, and other than SLAM there isn't any re-positioning.  So it's big stats, but very little else.

Barrage Rockets were just a terrible design idea, IMHO.  They keep causing problems.

Yeah. I think costing on Barrage will have to keep being tweaked. For a generic, 7 pts to upgrade your attack 4+ times is more than enough. I'd venture a guess that most of the time you don't even use all the charges. 

But then Boats can reload. 

So yeah. 

SLAM isn't for their offense in this case. Just use it to get out of the way and come back around. It's what every t65 tries to do anyway by closing the foils...but not as effectively. 

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