Last Lord of Moria - Shadow and Flame

[Emilius 73]

Quest Points: 1

Side 3B: When Revealed: Durin's Bane makes an immediate attack on the first player. Add Dark Pit to the staging area.

Players cannot win the game while Durin's Bane is in play. If Durin's Bane leaves play by the effect on Dark Pit, the players have won the game.

My question is: if I use the effect of Dark Pit, I win the game immediatly even if I don't have the only quest point requested in this quest or I need to put 1 progress token on the quest?

Thank you in advance

[alogos 171]

Victory condition need to be match in order to win.

The quest point is needed to pass the quest, but here, passing the quest is not part of the winning condition. You can win without the 1 progress token.

 

Note also that Durin's Bane regenerate 3 hitpoint before you can do the Dark Pit's action.

[Emilius 73]

Thank you alogos.

I agree with you.

But if the progress point isn't needed why is it present on the card?

The only way to destroy the balrog is with the Dark Pit's effect, so it seems useless.

Perhaps there are other methods to discard the balrog different from Dark Pit's effect?

[CJMatos 54]

Yes there are other.

 

The most effective is O Elbereth! Gilthonial! which comes in the same pack

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

O Elbereth wouldn't work, the word "cannot" is absolute so Elbereth can't take Durin's Bane out of the staging area.

 

Of course, by the same logic, Dark Pit also can't remove the balrog from play... so as you might imagine, this question has been asked before and here is the thread with the official response.  I'll copy it below too:

 

Durin's Bane cannot leave the staging area, so O Elbereth! Gilthonial! will not send it to the bottom of the encounter deck. This does create a problem with the text on Dark Pit. That card will receive an erratum in the next FAQ to explain that its ability supersedes the game text on Durin's Bane, making it possible for players to defeat the scenario the way it was intended. In the meantime, please play the scenario as if the last line of Dark Pit reads "This effect supersedes the game text on Durin's Bane."
Thanks,
Caleb

 

 

And as far as I can see, that errata never happened.

[alogos 171]

Thank you alogos.

I agree with you.

But if the progress point isn't needed why is it present on the card?

The only way to destroy the balrog is with the Dark Pit's effect, so it seems useless.

Perhaps there are other methods to discard the balrog different from Dark Pit's effect?

 

My response for the past year was that FFG was trolling... like why some cards have some stats that are never used. But it may be used in nigthmare mode, maybe. Other than that, it may be thematic or a remanent of past design that was not kept. Pick whatever you want.

[Emilius 73]

The Balrog has 27 hit points.

Is it possible to put more than 27 hit token on it or 27 is the maximum number that the balrog can have?

This is a very important difference, that can change the destiny of a game.

Thank you

[ricedwlit 209]

The Balrog has 27 hit points.

Is it possible to put more than 27 hit token on it or 27 is the maximum number that the balrog can have?

This is a very important difference, that can change the destiny of a game.

Thank you

Good question - I recall this question coming up before and cannot recall if there was an official answer or not.  I've played it that you cannot put more the 27 damage on the Balrog since otherwise it's too easy to guarantee a victory when it comes time to push it into the pit.

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

Consider this example from the Core Set manual (my emphasis):

 

"Kris compares the enemy's total attack (6 atk) against the Silverlode Archer's defense (0 def), and places 6 damage tokens on the defending character. Since the Silverlode Archer only has 1 hit point, it is destroyed and discarded from play."

[Mndela 422]

When you deal damage you do it simultaneously. So you can add damage to an enemy further his hp.

[Catastrophic09 101]

Hmm.. I'm not sure about that. Just as you cannot have less than 0 threat or any other stat I would think extra damage cannot remain on an enemy since they just die when damage is equal to or more than their hit points. This quest and effect with Dark Pit would be faulty if you could place extra damage on the balrog so I think he can only have 27 damage on him.

[Mndela 422]

Frodo for example, his ability...; Dori also...

Edited June 15, 2014 by Mndela

[Catastrophic09 101]

But that damage is cancelled for Frodo or Dori just dies so I think its different since the Balrog remains in play and only 27 damage should remain on the Balrog or at least that's what the developers intended or else you can put 40 damage on the Balrog and then not worry about Regeneration or failing Dark Pit effect.. so I never put more than 27 on him.

[Catastrophic09 101]

After looking at some BGG posts, many still question putting more than 27 on him because it would make Dark Pit trivial and not as tense and exciting but some supposesedly sent this question to FFG and they responded saying you can place extra damage on him and nothing explicitly says you can't.. so do whatever but I think that's poor design and he should never hold more than 27 damage tokens.

And.. I also think you need that 1 progress token to fully defeat the last card and, don't you always have to fulfill the progress on a quest as part of winning? Otherwise yeah, there is no point in having 1 quest point.

[alogos 171]

And.. I also think you need that 1 progress token to fully defeat the last card and, don't you always have to fulfill the progress on a quest as part of winning? Otherwise yeah, there is no point in having 1 quest point.

 

Only when "player have to defeat this stage" is written, or "when player defeat this stage"...

[Mndela 422]

For example Watchman of the White Tower. You make an undefended and one hero with 2 hp (Bilbo, or Pippin...) deals the damage. The attack has, for example, 6 attack points.

Does Watchman get only 2 damage?

[Nerdmeister 144]

For example Watchman of the White Tower. You make an undefended and one hero with 2 hp (Bilbo, or Pippin...) deals the damage. The attack has, for example, 6 attack points.

Does Watchman get only 2 damage?

I would say it is all the damage based on the wording "... instead of a hero you control"