Minions

[signoftheserpent 92]

I asked this on G+so apologies if you're reading this twice.

Can/how do you split up or merge minions (into groups bigger groups) during combat.

If so how then do you process their positions in the initiative order?

[2P51 32,611]

It's not really covered.  You could bill them a Maneuver I suppose.  I still only do one roll per adversary type or individual, so if I've got 5 Stromtroopers split up and not using the grouping rules, it's still just one initiative roll.

[knasserII 2,557]

I split or combine them whenever I want, really. Five stormtroopers? If I decide two are going to attack the droid and three are going to attack the crazed wookie, that's two groups of minions. If next turn their sergeant tells them to all attack the Kardashian, then that's now one group of five minions.

It plays well and makes logical sense. Minion rules are an abstraction for handling groups. Not a real thing that the minions themselves have to be concerned with.

[zachattack2 102]

We kinda did it as the situation dictated. Each minion's wounds would be tracked separately. If the last guy of a group ended up being basically next to another group he'd just join them.

 

If they need to split up they'd split up.

[kinnison 846]

It shouldn't be that difficult.  I had a group of 3 minons manning an E-web (and didn't hit anything but the ground and air  the whole encounter)  one got killed, and I had a group of cowering "Spare minons" taking cover.  On the cowards turn he moved up to the gun crew and by the next round they were back to three.

 

ONe of my ideas is to have a rule set for buying a "disposable minon" where you get a minon to join you and give you an upgrade on your skill.  THen when you get hit the minion is the first to absorb the damage.  Might work well for space combat also.

[signoftheserpent 92]

We kinda did it as the situation dictated. Each minion's wounds would be tracked separately. If the last guy of a group ended up being basically next to another group he'd just join them.

 

If they need to split up they'd split up.

and when do they get to act? 3 separate actions in the same slot as the group?

[signoftheserpent 92]

The only asnwer would be to call for a brand new initiative roll all round. A squadron of TIE's breaks formation to become separate units.

[Col. Orange 1,662]

I split or combine them whenever I want, really. Five stormtroopers? If I decide two are going to attack the droid and three are going to attack the crazed wookie, that's two groups of minions. If next turn their sergeant tells them to all attack the Kardashian, then that's now one group of five minions.

It plays well and makes logical sense. Minion rules are an abstraction for handling groups. Not a real thing that the minions themselves have to be concerned with.

 

What do you do about return fire?  e.g. If I shoot the group that's attacking the Wookiee one round can I only take out two guys, maximum?  If I wait for them to gang up on the Kardashian instead, can I now killify all five in one go if I roll well?

(Not a gripe, just curiosity.)

[signoftheserpent 92]

I'm going to assume that minions ought not to change from the way they were deployed.

 

These rules are a little vague in places, which I find a bit frustrating tbh.

[knasserII 2,557]

I split or combine them whenever I want, really. Five stormtroopers? If I decide two are going to attack the droid and three are going to attack the crazed wookie, that's two groups of minions. If next turn their sergeant tells them to all attack the Kardashian, then that's now one group of five minions.

It plays well and makes logical sense. Minion rules are an abstraction for handling groups. Not a real thing that the minions themselves have to be concerned with.

 

What do you do about return fire?  e.g. If I shoot the group that's attacking the Wookiee one round can I only take out two guys, maximum?  If I wait for them to gang up on the Kardashian instead, can I now killify all five in one go if I roll well?

(Not a gripe, just curiosity.)

It wasn't until I read your reply that I realized my typo. I rather obviously meant to write Trandoshan but wow was I tired when I wrote that post! Now I'm giggling like a loon - I wondered why I was getting so many likes! :D

Good point. It hasn't actually come up that people kill more than is in a group. I do say "do you want to fire at the ones that are attacking the wookie or the ones that are attacking X" or along those lines. But if someone rolled well and took down more, I think it's entirely fair to let the PC take down more than is in a group. It depends how obviously distinct the minion groups are. I.e. two groups of storm troopers attacking from either end of a long corridor I will treat as two groups, probably regardless of how many hits the PC gets. A group of storm troopers manning a barricade and all bunched up, I would allow them to multi-group-injure even if those storm troopers had been splitting fire.

I guess there's GM arbitrariness in there, but it usually feels fair to the players and is quick and easy to work with so it makes sense to me. Splitting minion groups post "deployment" also allows a GM to be a lot fairer and more equal to all members of the party as well, in some cases.

Edited June 17, 2014 by knasserII

[Krieger22 2,467]

You are absolutely meant to be able to take down multiple minions in a group with one attack roll. Minions are for when you want your players to feel they're awesome action heroes, and nothing says Awesome Action Hero like mowing down a bunch of thugs. Boost dice for the player's next check if he narrates his takedowns in a cool way.

[HappyDaze 9,901]

Minions are also for when you don't want to bother naming a bunch of relatively unimportant NPCs nor detailing everything they might have in their pockets or on their datapads. Damnable looting PCs!

Edited June 17, 2014 by HappyDaze

[Hedgehobbit 418]

A group of storm troopers manning a barricade and all bunched up, I would allow them to multi-group-injure even if those storm troopers had been splitting fire.

I guess there's GM arbitrariness in there, but it usually feels fair to the players and is quick and easy to work with so it makes sense to me. Splitting minion groups post "deployment" also allows a GM to be a lot fairer and more equal to all members of the party as well, in some cases.

 

That's not arbitrary, most miniatures games use a similar rule based on how close the target models are. Dave Arneson played D&D that way; allowing a single attack to kill multiple bad guys. I've been running my D&D games like that for several years now. 

[Ghostofman 8,297]

I'm going to assume that minions ought not to change from the way they were deployed.

 

These rules are a little vague in places, which I find a bit frustrating tbh.

This is the way to go.

 Minions group rules boil down to them being a single character with special effects. It's not some kind of wargame dynamic squadding mechanic, it's a method of giving the appearance of large numbers of enemies without the mess of actually having to manage large numbers of enemies.

 

Also remember that minions don't have to group, and can instead operate as individuals if the encounter calls for it (which many actually can).

[knasserII 2,557]

I'm going to assume that minions ought not to change from the way they were deployed.

 

These rules are a little vague in places, which I find a bit frustrating tbh.

This is the way to go.

It's very simple, even trivial, to split and combine minion groups as a battle progresses. And this makes things more realistic, interesting and even fairer on the players. You face seven storm troopers. Two of them make a break for the force field generator. Now you have a group of five and group of two. Maybe the marauder PC sprints for the two trying to shutdown the generator and engages them in hand to hand. Perhaps you have a bunch of thugs firing at the PCs and you decide two will fire at one PC, three at the other. Now you have two groups of minions instead of one hapless PC getting the full brunt.

It's incredibly easy to just change around the number of minions in groups. So why not when you get so much extra flexibility? Nothing says you have to. But often it's appropriate.

[Aservan 200]

My personal take is that splitting minions makes more work for me as a GM. Easier to just add more minions. Minions are like stupid people or Doritos; they will make more.

 

The PCs kill the first two groups with lucky rolls?  Reinforcements arrive. They don't seem to break a sweat in combat? More minions. Need to divide resources? Math is hard; more minions.

 

Easy answer.

[Inquisitor Tremayne 387]

My personal take is that splitting minions makes more work for me as a GM. Easier to just add more minions. Minions are like stupid people or Doritos; they will make more.

 

The PCs kill the first two groups with lucky rolls?  Reinforcements arrive. They don't seem to break a sweat in combat? More minions. Need to divide resources? Math is hard; more minions.

 

Easy answer.

Same.  Splitting minions while GMing everything else going on, nah.  Just add more minions.  I also split them up, since they are individuals after all, but damage and checks are made as one.  If a PC deals enough damage to drop more than one then I just narrate it that way.  They got off an extra shot.  They cleaved.  etc.

[progressions 2,180]

The only asnwer would be to call for a brand new initiative roll all round. A squadron of TIE's breaks formation to become separate units.

 

Not necessarily the "only" answer. In games I've played in and games I've GM'ed, I found it worked much better to just kinda fudge it. Add a couple of initiative slots to the end of the list, OR (the best option IMO) just have the separate units take action during the same initiative turn.

 

This stuff isn't necessarily mathematics, it doesn't have to be so specific and detailed. It's often easiest in the flow of a game to just keep the flow going and not worry too much about separate initiative slots for every minion group you've got.

[Inquisitor Tremayne 387]

Indeed.  I divide initiative slots as such:

 

Nemesis - own initiative slot

Rival - own initiative slot

Rivals - same initiative slot

Minion group 1, 2, 3 - same initiative slot