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Ribann

4 Attack on Phantom: Mistake by FFG?

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I wish I could start a poll, but I'll have to keep count front replies. Some of us have had some time to mess around with the Phantom either from winning one at AoIA or on Vassal. I'm curious if you think FFG made a slight oversight when they thought to give the TIE Phantom a base 4 attack? Most people I've played with or against who have flown the Phantom all agree 4 is way too much. I've flown it myself and so long as I'm not up against a Falcon, I can pretty much single-handily wipe out my opponent with just a VI Whisper+Adv Cloaking Device+FCS or Adv. Sensors. In fact, I'm so confident it could happen I'd be willing to run JUST a decked out Whisper against any list that doesn't have any 360* firing arc ships.

 

TL;DR Is the base 4 attack on a Phantom too much?

 

Discuss.

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Isn't the high attack rating sort of balanced out by cloaking? That is, you're skipping your chance to fire at all during rounds when you're using its gimmick, and it's vulnerable with just 4 hit points when you aren't. Seems like a high-risk, high-reward sort of ship.

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Isn't the high attack rating sort of balanced out by cloaking? That is, you're skipping your chance to fire at all during rounds when you're using its gimmick, and it's vulnerable with just 4 hit points when you aren't. Seems like a high-risk, high-reward sort of ship.

 

A good player can easily get shots in every round with a TIE Phantom and cloak back up with Adv. Cloaking Device.

 

There is no "high risk" with the Phantom. If you fly it properly, you can literally get out of range of every arc and still have shots.

 

Your opponents aren't very good at spreading their firing arcs if they can NEVER shoot at it. A phantom i slippery, but far from impossible to hit. Cloak all you want, I don't trust green dice, one bad roll and he's crippled or dead

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Oh, there is plenty of risk with the Phantom. One misplacement, you are trusting the dice. Even with Whisper's many Focus tokens. Yes, the Phantom is very slippery. But as many Soontir Fel's I've seen can tell you, green dice aren't everything. And it is going to take time for us to adjust to the Phantoms movements. The movement of the squad is key for fighting the Phantom. You have to set up a good grid of firing arcs. Of course, high PS is handy as well. I would love to see Soontir and friends fly against Phantoms. It would be fun to watch.

Ribann and JCDisaray like this

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I wish I could start a poll, but I'll have to keep count front replies. Some of us have had some time to mess around with the Phantom either from winning one at AoIA or on Vassal. I'm curious if you think FFG made a slight oversight when they thought to give the TIE Phantom a base 4 attack? Most people I've played with or against who have flown the Phantom all agree 4 is way too much. I've flown it myself and so long as I'm not up against a Falcon, I can pretty much single-handily wipe out my opponent with just a VI Whisper+Adv Cloaking Device+FCS or Adv. Sensors. In fact, I'm so confident it could happen I'd be willing to run JUST a decked out Whisper against any list that doesn't have any 360* firing arc ships.

 

TL;DR Is the base 4 attack on a Phantom too much?

 

Nope 4 attack is just what it needed. It will aid me is sending all the space hippies to the land there yonder. The only good rebel is a dead one:)

Discuss.

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Oh, there is plenty of risk with the Phantom. One misplacement, you are trusting the dice. Even with Whisper's many Focus tokens. Yes, the Phantom is very slippery. But as many Soontir Fel's I've seen can tell you, green dice aren't everything. And it is going to take time for us to adjust to the Phantoms movements. The movement of the squad is key for fighting the Phantom. You have to set up a good grid of firing arcs. Of course, high PS is handy as well. I would love to see Soontir and friends fly against Phantoms. It would be fun to watch.

Yes there is risk, which is why we choose to fly engine upgrade and senssy senors:)

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Which still means nothing once people have figured out the best way to trap a Phantom. Look, I know the threat of the Phantom. I saw it absolutely tear up the Rebel play at Imdaar Alpha. But, that was mainly because the Rebel player was very obviously not setting up his arcs properly. I know it is not intuitive in this game, but you are going to have to split up your firepower, in order to land hits on the Phantom.

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What's more irritating than Curse?... Rex k turn with a hlc/OM... What's worse that that? Echo sensoring into a boost, decloaking a bank into a k turn at range one:)

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I think if it was 3 ATK it wouldn't be worth the cost/hassle.  I haven't played with it, but I assume you have to use hit and run tactics and may not be able to maintain sequential hits on the same target turn after turn.  3 or less attack dice don't have the ability to make a meaningful hit on a regular basis.  

 

So I feel like the Phantom will tear up anyone who plays against it the first game or two.  Beyond that, it should start to fit into your muscle memory.  

 

You could always take Roark + Lt Blount + Ion Pulse Missile and pretty much wipe it off the board (very specific example, but just an anti-Phantom tactic off the top of my head).

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Oh, there is plenty of risk with the Phantom. One misplacement, you are trusting the dice. Even with Whisper's many Focus tokens. Yes, the Phantom is very slippery. But as many Soontir Fel's I've seen can tell you, green dice aren't everything. And it is going to take time for us to adjust to the Phantoms movements. The movement of the squad is key for fighting the Phantom. You have to set up a good grid of firing arcs. Of course, high PS is handy as well. I would love to see Soontir and friends fly against Phantoms. It would be fun to watch.

Yes there is risk, which is why we choose to fly engine upgrade and senssy senors:)

 

 

Part of the "risk" I'm talking about is how much you invest into a single ship with so few hit points. Making the Phantom sturdy and slippery enough to be reliable (if any ship can be considered reliable) takes a third of your squad points.

 

The "good news" is that a Phantom can't use Engine Upgrade and Advanced Cloaking Device at the same time. And a Phantom with ACD is still vulnerable to higher-PS ships such as Wedge, right?

 

It looks like it has a great gimmick, but it's still a glass cannon and has vulnerabilities that can be exploited by some common squads built using only Wave 1 ships.

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Classic example of the logical fallacy known as "Begging the Question".

 

The veiled assertion that the 4 Attack stat is a "mistake" is very presumptuous at this point in time.  No one except for the play-testers, ironically, have played enough games with this new ship to make either a positive or negative conclusion on this point.

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Classic example of the logical fallacy known as "Begging the Question".

 

The veiled assertion that the 4 Attack stat is a "mistake" is very presumptuous at this point in time.  No one except for the play-testers, ironically, have played enough games with this new ship to make either a positive or negative conclusion on this point.

Scottie, we don't see enough of you around here...

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The Phantoms 4 attack dice is fine.

The phantom has. A lot of fire power. It is ment to be a ship that strikes fear into the alliance.

It's not unbeatable. I've been using echo with every build I've come up with so far and found that yes he is really nasty but can be beat.

Today and yesterday I've gone 3 wins two loses.

I made a real bad move in one game so that was a good learning experience.

Without the four attack dice they would not be worth the points.

Once the new ships come out we are going to possibly see a shift I think in the meta game.

Now wave 5,and Rebel aces.

The game will always evolve,.

Keeps it interesting

Edited by Krynn007
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Classic example of the logical fallacy known as "Begging the Question".

 

The veiled assertion that the 4 Attack stat is a "mistake" is very presumptuous at this point in time.  No one except for the play-testers, ironically, have played enough games with this new ship to make either a positive or negative conclusion on this point.

Scottie, we don't see enough of you around here...

 

 

These forums won't let me post on my phone.  In fact I have to close the browser and re open it to even switch threads I'm reading.  It's quite annoying

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