Fleet Officer

[Smuggler 556]

I honestly do not se why "within" should be interpreted as "entierly within". If any part of the ship is within a certain range, I can say the ship is within that range and still be using the word correctly. Saying the entire ship is within is an other mater, but that's not what the card in question says.

[Jehan Menasis 1,562]

I honestly do not se why "within" should be interpreted as "entierly within". If any part of the ship is within a certain range, I can say the ship is within that range and still be using the word correctly. Saying the entire ship is within is an other mater, but that's not what the card in question says.

 

Essentially, because the FAQ says so, page 4... "At" vs. "Within" paragraph.

[Parravon 5,217]

I honestly do not se why "within" should be interpreted as "entierly within". If any part of the ship is within a certain range, I can say the ship is within that range and still be using the word correctly. Saying the entire ship is within is an other mater, but that's not what the card in question says.

Check the card on first post. It's exactly what the card says.  "Choose up to 2 friendly ships within Range 1-2..."

If the furtherest point on the target ship is still inside the Range 2 band, it's within range 2. If it's outside of that, it's not. Plus, as JM noted, it's in the FAQ.

[VanorDM 11,599]

Is anyone actually playing Fleet Officer as 'within'?

I would guess few if anyone does. Even though that is what the card says. Which makes me wonder, if that's how FFG intended it to work, as a form of limitation, or if was another case of them using key words incorrectly.

I looked through a ton of cards on the wiki, and so far the only case where an upgrade uses the term within is Fleet Officer. Otherwise every other card that has a reference to range uses at

Might be worth a question to FFG to see if that's a mistake on their part. In fact I think I'll fire one off now.

Edited December 12, 2014 by VanorDM

[VanorDM 11,599]

I emailed FFG about it with two questions.

1) Is the ship Fleet Officer is on count as being within range 1-2 of itself?

2) Is Within the correct word there and the target of Fleet Officer needs to be within range 1-2 or should the card actually read at range 1-2?

[Cptnhalfbeard 680]

another case of them using key words incorrectly.

Another? What key words have they ever used incorrectly? As far as I am aware all their wording has been deliberately and correctly used. I do believe they chose "within" purposefully to limit the usage for balance. It's a pretty strong action, might be too strong if it was "at" range 2.

[VanorDM 11,599]

Another? What key words have they ever used incorrectly?

Off the top of my head. Expert Handling, they didn't include the word Action, which completely changed how the card works.

It's completely possible they do intend it to work that way, and meant Within, but it's a departure from every other upgrade or ability I could find that dealt with range.

Edited December 12, 2014 by VanorDM

[Smuggler 556]

 

I honestly do not se why "within" should be interpreted as "entierly within". If any part of the ship is within a certain range, I can say the ship is within that range and still be using the word correctly. Saying the entire ship is within is an other mater, but that's not what the card in question says.

 

Essentially, because the FAQ says so, page 4... "At" vs. "Within" paragraph.

 

*hurrys of to look at FAQ* ... I stand corrected.

I guess it's time to actualy read through that FAQ again instead of just asuming I know everythng that's in it

[Parravon 5,217]

 

Another? What key words have they ever used incorrectly?

Off the top of my head. Expert Handling, they didn't include the word Action, which completely changed how the card works.

It's completely possible they do intend it to work that way, and meant Within, but it's a departure from every other upgrade or ability I could find that dealt with range.

 

Maybe they wanted the friendly ships to be nice and close. If you've got a ship that has just got the nearest corner of it's base at Range 2, it's quite a fair distance still.

It is a little odd that it's the only card to use "within" in the wording, but then how many other things have popped up to justify the "At vs Within" FAQ entry?

[VanorDM 11,599]

It is a little odd that it's the only card to use "within" in the wording, but then how many other things have popped up to justify the "At vs Within" FAQ entry?

I didn't look at every card, so maybe I missed one. But I looked at most of them from wave 2 or so onward and I couldn't find any.

[Buhallin 4,563]

 

It is a little odd that it's the only card to use "within" in the wording, but then how many other things have popped up to justify the "At vs Within" FAQ entry?

 

Prior to this, the only thing I can think of that used "within" was setup.  Which needed to be the way it is, for obvious reasons.  As far as I know, we've never seen it used on an ability before.

[Danath "ATLAS" 326]

Look at the physical card. IT says "at". The one online was incorrect. So yes Fleet Office can target it's own ship just like Jan (crew) can.

 

Here is an email from a while ago about "at" and "within". The bolded section is Frank's response. The underlined is my questions.

 

Rule Question:

"At" vs "Within"

Currently from the FAQ the above two words matter. In order to be within you need to be entirely i the range band.

However this doesn't seem to work well with many of the missions.

Mission 1 Political Escort: Makes being with range 1 quite difficult and if you are playing with a large ship near impossible.

Mission 2 Asteroid Run: This allows for very close asteroid placement as all you need is a bit of the asteroid outside range 1 for legal placement.

Mission 4 Den of Thieves: Again within makes picking up the containers more difficult.

Mission 6 Undeniable Assets: This one is geared towards Lambdas and as mentioned above large ships being within the ships are very difficult.

Mission 7 Cutting the Cord: Getting a large ship within range of the asteroid again is difficult

Some missions also say you cannot be within range 1-3 of this which would seem you can put all of your ship inside that area except a corner or slight edge (ie missions 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, & T3A).

 

The “within” vs “at” language was used slightly differently when the game started. The definition given works for all card abilities, but does argue with some of the missions as you pointed out. In almost every example you gave “at” should be used instead. Additionally, for instances of being instructed to place things “not within Range 1–X” please substitute “must be beyond Range X” instead. 

Finally I know you won't comment on this as its not officially released but due to GenCON is being played. Fleet Officer says within range meaning if any part of your friendly ships are outside range 2 they cannot be targeted. Might want to FAQ that (Sure your already on top of it).

Please not these observations are not mine but were found on boardgamegeek with images. Feel free to use his post as a reference,

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1243269/observations-use-within-and-not-within-range-x-mis

.

So what I'm asking is for clarification on "within" and if it is suppose to be so difficult for large ships to be wholly within range 1.

 

Fleet Officer doesn’t actually say “within.” The files used for the announcement article were not final. I don’t believe any actual cards exist that say within, they should all say “at."

 

Thanks for playing,

 

Frank Brooks

Associate Creative Content Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

Edited December 16, 2014 by Danath

[Buhallin 4,563]

Huh.  They do indeed.  Thanks for the heads-up - easy for us to take online reference for granted.