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RuneSmith

Are the expansions a bit of a rip off?

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OK, you have the basic game and want to expand your number of x wings. You buy one expansion, get a lovely model and some cool new cards and pilots. You buy another expansion, get another sweet model and,...all the same cards you got last time. As most of the pilots are unique you now have a load of duplicate cards you don't need and can't use. If you want a TIE swarm that's gonna be even worse. It should be possible to buy miniatures without the cards.

Well lucky you cause about every other players would like the option to buy card only without having to buy multiple of the same ship. I suggest you sell your cards on ebay if you have no need for them.

 

But quite frankly, if FFG were to sell ship without cards, you would save what? 50 cents maybe? So why go to the trouble of making an whole new package just for a couple cents.

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X-wing's only as expensive as it is because we all want to buy every ship, far more than we could field. Imagine how expensive something like Warhammer would be if you tried to get a viable force for every single faction.

Or, worse--what if you wanted to buy enough minis to field not just a viable force, but every viable force? It'll set you back about $1000 at this point, but it's still feasible in X-wing. I wouldn't want to try it with Warmahordes or 40k, though--even if I limited myself to two factions, I'd be in a debtor's prison inside a year.

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When I look at posts like this I think about how my current force cost me just under $500. Then I think about my friends who play Magic and have spent well over $3K or the ones who like Warhammer and have spent over $5K and it makes me wonder how anyone who has any experience in other game systems can look at this one and think "Man, this game is too expensive!"

Mace Windu, Baphomet69 and oneway like this

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OK, you have the basic game and want to expand your number of x wings. You buy one expansion, get a lovely model and some cool new cards and pilots. You buy another expansion, get another sweet model and,...all the same cards you got last time. As most of the pilots are unique you now have a load of duplicate cards you don't need and can't use. If you want a TIE swarm that's gonna be even worse. It should be possible to buy miniatures without the cards.

 

 

No offence but "HELL WITH THAT!!!"  I would much rather have seprate card booster packs than minis without cards.

 

I got 8 reg Interceptors and 7 of each 181st and Royal Interceptors with plans to get another 7 interceptors (one at a time).  Only way to get stealth device is Slave 1.  To have a stealth device for all Interceptors I need 14 slave 1s.

 

To be fair, with Lt. Blount on the scene, I'm not sure those are wise investments at this point. Hull upgrade is quite a bit better and you have plenty of those. :)

 

Further, monoculture lists are often rather brittle. It's better to run a varied list to take care of different threats.

 

 

He is not that bad, just stay out of his firing arc or blitz him.  Besides he wont win agianst 28 Interceptors even with a instant death ray :)

 

Ps I didnt buy those those Slave ships just in case you think I did. 

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GW/40K priced me out of the hobby.  Not to mention to their ever-broken rules and codexes.  (yeah yeah codices)  But X-wing is very affordable.  In many other tabletop wargames there is also terrain to buy/build.  X-wing makes it so simple.  A low model count, light on terrain, balanced wargame.  It doesn't get much better. 

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When I look at posts like this I think about how my current force cost me just under $500. Then I think about my friends who play Magic and have spent well over $3K or the ones who like Warhammer and have spent over $5K and it makes me wonder how anyone who has any experience in other game systems can look at this one and think "Man, this game is too expensive!"

Thousands on Magic sounds about right for someone who stays in the competitive brackets. New sets are released every 2-3 months and one will need to drop $200-300 to grantee a full play set and keep up with the competition. Also competitive card games cycle out older sets all the time (to push more sales).

 

On the Warhammer front $5k should easily be 10+ armies and a couple thousand models. This is comparable to 333 X-Wing ships. Once again, you get more with other games (including Warhammer), but you need far less with X-Wing..

 

Malifaux is probably the closest comparison to X-Wing. Both are small scale skirmish games. You have your start up cost of Basic rules=$15 and deck of playing cards (the game uses a poker deck rather than dice). Starter forces tend to be around $40 and include about 6-7 models. Usually a $20 add on (1-3 models) will get you a tournament force. All models come packaged with their relevant rules, for $8 you can all get a faction rule box which includes the rules for every model in that faction.

 

They both have similar price points once everything is said, but you get more and varied models with Malifaux. Your X-Wing models are assembled and painted already though. I imagine this and the license contribute to the price point.

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Buying two identical expansions isn't a rip off just because you receive duplicates you might not want. Remove those duplicate uniques and the price of expansions will not drop.

 

$15 gives you a pre-painted and pre-assembled model, a base, a bunch of cards, and a ton of chits. I'm hard pressed to think of another minis game that gives you more stuff for your dollar.

Edited by EvaUnit02

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I got 8 reg Interceptors and 7 of each 181st and Royal Interceptors with plans to get another 7 interceptors (one at a time).  Only way to get stealth device is Slave 1.  To have a stealth device for all Interceptors I need 14 slave 1s.

 

 

Slave 1 comes with 2 stealth device cards not 1

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Seems pretty cheap to me. A guy I met at the lgs was explaining the pricing structure of 40k. He pointed at a box of tanks with a $350 price tag and told me that you still have to buy the guys that go inside. And all the guns those guys need to holding. And that that one tank regiment would be about a fifth of your total army. And it needed to be assembled an painted. That put the roughly $220 I've spent on this game into perspective. I've got everything I need to field competitive squads on both side of the aisle. I feel that honestly it's a great product and I'm a very pleased consumer. I do wish that FFG would release card packs only. But I'm not tempted to stop buying/playing because they don't.

Edited by Nickotine42
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When calculating the cost of any wargame, I always calculate how much you need to pay to be able to play a tournament sized game. This actually means that X-wing is one of the cheapest in existence as you only need the starter set and two more expansions to reach that level and even at its most expensive level (8 Tie Fighters) you are still not paying nearly as much as most other wargames. Of course that doesn't stop us from buying more plastic crack than we actually need, now does it? :D

 

...and the cost to buy 1 of each is ok.

(to play tournament you need to do this to known the other players rules and tactics)

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Thanks for all replies and please don't think I was trying to start some kind of flame war. I also did not mean to suggest the expansions were too expensive, for such high quality and more important to a klutz like me, PAINTED models its fantastic. I also agree that overall its easier and cheaper than most other games to get a decent force. I just seem to see a lot of redundancy present in terms of the cards.

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OP:  NO, things are just fine the way they are.

 

 

Nobody is forced to play this game.  You can also play very cheap with minimal ships and have an effective and competitive fleet.

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I have spent thousands of dollars on 40k over 20 years of playing it. I have spent hundreds on xwing in just 2. X-wing IS the best miniatures game on the market right now when you take all the factors in. You get the most bang for your buck by far over any other game. GW is a dinosaur waiting to die. FFG created a monster game in a small box, tight rules, customization, popular theme, great minis, great customer support, very affordable(the core set was on shelves at TARGET) terrific play value etc. There is always ebay for buying parts out of nearly any game. FFG has this line down cold, lets just enjoy it while it lasts.

Texx, EvilEd209, Baphomet69 and 3 others like this

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I think the basis of this thread is flawed to begin with.  You are playing a miniatures game and miniatures games are expensive, flat out.  While this one is not a build and paint game like 40K, Warmachine, Fantasy, or others it is still a miniatures hobby.  Hobby's are expensive! 

What I love about X-Wing is the initial buy in is so much more attractive to the new player.  The buy in off the bat is $40 USD.  With that you get everything you need to play a game right out of the box.  No tournament level, no, I'll admit.  However, if you pick up another X-Wing and another TIE to get all of the pilots you are missing for another $30 USD and your well on your way to getting closer to a tournament level.  That's $70 total!  X-Box games cost about that these days!

The buy in for games like 40K lets say (of which I have sank thousands of dollar in, happily), is to buy this expensive rulebook, then this starter set which contains small armies you may not be interesting but need it to get all of the templates, dice, rules you need to play with the models in the box, not the whole army.  You then then need to buy another overly priced Codex to tell you the full rules for your army, which are not included in the starter.  So before you have built a single models or played a single game you in for $85USD Rulebook, $100USD Starter set, $50USD Codex ($65 in the case of Space Marines) for a total of $235USD.  You then need paints, glue, and tool to put the models together, time to do so, and even after ALL of that, you do not have a legal army to play in a real tournament with.  Let alone if you decide to play and army that is not in the starter, you need to build those up from scratch. 

I read somewhere that the average 1850 point army (which is considered by many to be the standard tournament level play for 40K) after all expenses are considered, will run you well over $1000! And that is just one army.  How do you tell someone who wants to start playing that game that with a straight face, when $70 gets you close in X-Wing?

I find your argument is invalid because other hobby games are so grossly more expensive that I gladly pay $15/$30 a ship and smile to know I can take it out of the box right there at the store and start playing with it now.

Ed

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To be fair, after buying a single X-Wing and TIE Fighter expansion, it is more efficient to buy more core sets to expand your X-Wing and TIE Fighter ranks than the individual expansions.  Unless you're wanting to concentrate on only flying Rebels or Imperials, in which case the cost efficiency of the extra core sets is offset by getting you models you didn't want.  But you could reasonably argue that the X-Wing and TIE Fighter expansions are a "rip off" after you buy one of each.  Only in that they're not the most efficient option, it's still overall a relatively cheap miniatures game.

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Again, can I emphasize, I don't think the game or models are overpriced, far from it. Given the quality of the models they are excellent value. Its the card redundancy in multiple copies of expansions that bothers me.

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Again, can I emphasize, I don't think the game or models are overpriced, far from it. Given the quality of the models they are excellent value. Its the card redundancy in multiple copies of expansions that bothers me.

Right, which is why I would suggest extra core sets instead of extra X-Wing or TIE fighter expansions - you'll still get duplicates of unique cards but it is more cost efficient.  For other sets, only the unique pilots (usually 2 cards) and any unique upgrades are wasted.  Really not too bad.  If nothing else, it may eventually allow you to build 2 separate rebel or imperial squads to loan a friend for a tournament.

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The ships are ridiculously expensive, about three times what they should be selling for... alas that is the price we must pay to fund the cost of the licence.

this was the best quote I saw. The License to resell star wars anything is incredibly expensive.  But FFG is a business and exists not to provide us with entertainment but to make money.  But considering the untold Thousands I have spent on GW over the last 20 years this game is cheap to play by comparison and it is designed well enough to be easily understood by 6 year olds, and still challenging to adults.

 

$15 for a single small ship is fine when you consider the cost of fine cast in GW (or insert favorite game system).  

 

Now I might go the opposite direction from the OP. I would like to see the ability to buy extra cards.  There are some that I just don't have enough of. But again that might break the profitability factor for FFG.  So we will never see it.

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If you pay full price and buy the core set and and one of each expansion you'd spend about $400 US. And $140 would be for the rebel transport and corvette. And anyone who can't get at least a 10% discount off retail isn't trying very hard. For those players who just play one side $200 will pretty much cover everything you'd ever need up to this point. Heck the rules are free, you can buy plastic templates and just get the ships you want. $100 will get you going with a solid collection right out of the gate. Few miniatures games can offer this kind of value.

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Its way better then having random cards in with the minis, like axis and allies war at sea. Could you imagine having to buy 3 or 4 x-wings just to get wedge? Or the droids?

 

I would like to see a option to buy cards though. Cards like advance sensors, or heavy laser cannon that only comes with the big ships i have no intention of buying (especially for the x-wing cards that come with the transport).

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Sure card packs would be nice and all, but let's remember that FFG has put some of the most-wanted cards in multiple expansion packs :

  • Swarm Tactics is available from TIE Advanced or TIE Fighter expansions
  • HLC is available from Slave-1 or Lambda Shuttle expansions

...has included them in multiple copies with single-ship expansions :

  • Millenium Falcon includes 2 copies each of Engine and Shield Upgrade
  • Slave-1 includes 2 copies of Stealth Device
  • Lambda Shuttle includes 2 copies of Anti-Pursuit Lasers
  • Rebel Aces is going to include 2 copies each of Chaardan Refit, A-Wing Test Pilot, Enhanced Scopes and B-Wing/E (maybe even 3xChaardan?)

...and has included them with Wave 4 packs as well :

  • The E-Wing includes Advanced Sensors (prev. only from Lambda) and Flechette Torpedoes (prev. only from Transport).
  • The TIE Phantom includes Fire Control System (prev. only from B-Wing) and Recon Spec (prev. only from HWK).

The number of upgrade cards from waves 1-3 only available through a single expansion pack gets shorter with each release.

 

 

I'm quite happy with the way FFG is handling this - they could have easily included a single Chaardan Refit in a Rebel Aces pack. Or never made Advanced Sensors available in a pack other than the Lamda.

Edited by Klutz

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