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cubby09

countering the phantom

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so i had my first experience with the phantom (hyper mobile Echo with navigator)yesterday (thanks Sable!). other than locking it up with ions or stresses it seems like the YT is the only true counter to it.

thoughts?

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Anything with turrets are going to be its nemesis and also any pilot that can shoot before the Phantom while it is decloaked will probably murder it. The Phantom is a true glass cannon.

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Roark Garnett. Set any of your ships to fire before the Phantom. Any ship for the most part that gets the Phantom on Arc will get to shoot at it before it recloaks.

The Hawk's general accuracy boosting abilities on Kyle and Jan can be helpful as well.

Firesprays are good options as well, especially a Vet Instincts Fettigator can be hard to dodge, and gets to shoot before the recloak.

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Roark Garnett. Set any of your ships to fire before the Phantom. Any ship for the most part that gets the Phantom on Arc will get to shoot at it before it recloaks.

The Hawk's general accuracy boosting abilities on Kyle and Jan can be helpful as well.

Firesprays are good options as well, especially a Vet Instincts Fettigator can be hard to dodge, and gets to shoot before the recloak.

Roark is a triple threat to Phantoms: turret, ion, and max pilot skill.

ObiWonka and Aminar like this

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ten numb, vi. advanced sensor.

Interesting. I think it's a little expensive, and will have trouble getting the crits to be undodgeable though. That and it encourages evade action, which makes things easier on you, but still leaves them at an advantage.

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Ion pulse missiles.

 

More specifically, Lt. Blount with Ion Pulse Missiles.  They'll always hit, instant-ion, and knock a shield off.  At that point he's really vulnerable.

I like flying Echo a *lot* and even with Veteran Instincts he's only PS8, so Han Solo is going to be a good counter as well.  Ditto for Roark.  Even Whisper + VI can be countered by them.  A good Phantom pilot will have to be really judicious in engaging anybody that's higher PS and turreted.

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Yeah were going to be seeing alot of VI being used i think.

Good point that. Vet instincts may be the best counter. At least combined with boost and Barrel Roll.

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In tourney games the Phantom is going to suffer from thinking time. My mate took it yesterday against me. I had 2 Firesprays in my list and it is still almost impossible to get in arc. What I did was shoot up the rest of his squad and because of the time needed to think Echo's moves out, I took a full win without shooting at him. The trick is to project threat against Phantoms as most people will try and avoid being shot at.

I then watched another friend fly Echo aggressively and Han and friends tore him up. The named Phantoms are close to being OP, they are simply uncatchable if flown with caution. That being said, just wreck the rest of the squad and then work the Phantom.

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Proton Bombs. Nothing says "Hard Counter" like slightly more than a 7/33 chance of 1-shotting your ship, outside of combat, while it's at full health.

 

True, you need a higher PS than the Phantom to use them properly, but the Phantom will spend most of its time terrified of your back-end anyway, and the way that will effect their flightpath will certainly alter their playstyle.

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In tourney games the Phantom is going to suffer from thinking time. My mate took it yesterday against me. I had 2 Firesprays in my list and it is still almost impossible to get in arc. What I did was shoot up the rest of his squad and because of the time needed to think Echo's moves out, I took a full win without shooting at him. The trick is to project threat against Phantoms as most people will try and avoid being shot at.

I then watched another friend fly Echo aggressively and Han and friends tore him up. The named Phantoms are close to being OP, they are simply uncatchable if flown with caution. That being said, just wreck the rest of the squad and then work the Phantom.

Thinking time is a very subjective thing. No matter what squad I fly, unless I have 3 or more ships more than my opponent I take less time than they do, unless they're a particularly fast player. Even with a Phantom it shouldn't be hard to know what to do quickly. It's one more decision, less than deciding what to do with 3 ties.

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 The named Phantoms are close to being OP, they are simply uncatchable if flown with caution. That being said, just wreck the rest of the squad and then work the Phantom.

I think the opposite is true(about kill priority), Leaving a named Phantom for last, unless it is a timed match that is about to be called due to time elapsing and you are just trying to get points.  I do not think there is a single small ship, that wants to try to go against a Phantom when they are the last 2 remaining (Even Soontir Fel as I learned last night)

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Ignoring the subjective concept of thinking time for a moment. You are left with two choices with the Phantom in the opponents squad.

 

1. If you do not have turrets, you can dedicate your squad to chasing it about and probably get very little reward whilst he gets good position with all his squad.

 

2. You can kill the rest of his squad and then go Phantom hunting.

 

My preference right now is wreck the rest of his squad.

 

(Two Phantoms in a squad is going to be a problem)

Edited by Englishpete

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In tourney games the Phantom is going to suffer from thinking time. My mate took it yesterday against me. I had 2 Firesprays in my list and it is still almost impossible to get in arc. What I did was shoot up the rest of his squad and because of the time needed to think Echo's moves out, I took a full win without shooting at him. The trick is to project threat against Phantoms as most people will try and avoid being shot at.

I then watched another friend fly Echo aggressively and Han and friends tore him up. The named Phantoms are close to being OP, they are simply uncatchable if flown with caution. That being said, just wreck the rest of the squad and then work the Phantom.

Keep in mind not everyone will fly it the same way as your buddy.

I can have my dials set and ready while my opponent,with 3-4 ships is still thinking.

As for dealing with turrets.

Flying with Echo does make it easier to stay at range 2-3.

If people are going to joust a Phantom and a Falcon, well then they deserve to lose

Edit

Going after my other ships is exactly what I want you to do. Ya they may take dmg, but if you plan ahead, view the path in the board, see what your opponent is up to, it is not always going to be so easy.

Then you have a Phantom coming from behind.

So far any games I've played my opponent goes after my other non Phantom ships. While he does kill some, (plus they are hurting him a well) I've taken out 2-3 ships with the Phantom.

Leaving it for last seems like a bad idea

Edited by Krynn007

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ten numb, vi. advanced sensor.

yeah, lets take a ship a ship with one evade die and match it up Vs a ship with 4 Attack die.........that will solve the problem!

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ten numb, vi. advanced sensor.

yeah, lets take a ship a ship with one evade die and match it up Vs a ship with 4 Attack die.........that will solve the problem!
Given the fact the Falcon is a great option, maybe. But Ten isn't likely to be the answer for other reasons.

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Hitting those Phantoms before they recloak will probably be your best bet.  Echo with VI is PS8, which leaves a good amount of stuff that can swing before him. 

 

Beyond that, just chucking dice at them will probably work.  Think of it like a Stealth Device Interceptor, they'll flub a roll eventually and Phantoms aren't exactly hardy.

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Hitting those Phantoms before they recloak will probably be your best bet.  Echo with VI is PS8, which leaves a good amount of stuff that can swing before him. 

 

Beyond that, just chucking dice at them will probably work.  Think of it like a Stealth Device Interceptor, they'll flub a roll eventually and Phantoms aren't exactly hardy.

While true, flubbing a roll is less likely on Whisper, who can build up 3 focus a turn with the right setup. Keeps her defense rolls good far far longer.

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Yup.

Plus don't forget. The dice works both ways.

With the Phantom sure you may get some shots in, but can you focus fire? If only one or two ships can shoot it, are you going to kill it?

Putting a Recon Specialist can really help it survive.

It only has one less hp over a xwing, and they both roll 2 evades (when decloak)

I think if it's equipped well, flown right, can be very hard to kill

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I think the Phantom will be scared to see an Engine + HLC loaded Defender across the table, preferably the named pilots with VI. It isn't hard to get through 4 defense when you have 4 attack dice. And with VI, you can still reposition after the Phantom has moved.

Also a general tip from my first few experiences, if a Phantom has ACD and you have a repositioning action, it is in your favor to give the Phantom initiative, when you have equal PS, that is. Having a shot at 4 agility is still better than no shot at all. Also, they might spend their focus on offense, which makes 4 agility much less useful.

In general, 4 agility isn't as scary as the free repositioning you get every turn with ACD.

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I cane speak for Whisper but echo is very hard to shot.

She stays out of archs like a pro.

Having V.I on her doesn't just help her with shooting.

It also helps to see where your opponent is going to be.

Unless she is up against a squad that is all ps 8+ once she sees where one or two are going, it's easy to assume whee the rest will go. So even if my opponent had another ship or two that is going to move last, I can safely assume what he is doing.

And if he is splitting up his forces, then all the better imo.

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