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krechevskoy

Will Z-95 be the "Ender's little doctor" to the TIE swarm?

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Sorry for the cross realm reference, but it fit for what I am trying to accomplish.

 

 

Using a Z-95 with [Assault Missiles] and the [Munitions Failsafe] to prevent some misses, I can see this forcing apart TIE swarms.  Yes is has 1 less hull and 1 less shot than a rookie X-wing but the missiles and modification would seem worth it even at being half the cost of the lowest Z-95.

 

 

At range 3 I can get target lock, then next turn I can get fire away and try to take out a well placed range 2 or (hopefully not range 3 shot) and possibly do 1 damage to every ship in a tie swarm.  And if I can still miss and survive the [munitions failsafe] does give me a chance to acquire target lock and attempt it again.  Optimally I can do  (1 to 4 damage to the initial TIE target and then possible 4 to 6 collateral damage to the swarm).  Statistically if I even hit for 1, it seems like the loadout would be worth it. 

 

 

With 2 fully loaded Z-95s I'm down 36 points, with 64 points left to round out a fairly decent team to pick off TIEs.   Or dare say spend 54 points on 3 fully loaded Z-95 ships to try and wipe out the swarm with 3 damage collateral to it or for a better chance at dealing 2 damage to everyone. It is not quite molecular disrupted clouds of dust, but a quick set of AOE damage to and otherwise harder to take down TIE swarm.

 

 

Now to defend against this TIEs can either stay close, range 1 or block.  Or the top tier tie fighters can at least barrel roll the target lock away (with expert handling)  if I foolishly decide to target lock them and the player has that elite talent.   Also this wouldn't be as good against bigger ships, but may also be used to get some cheap damage on more elusive ships that fly in formation.

 

 

None of us have run this configuration, so it is all Theorycraft at the moment. Based on the above I was wondering on how viable others would think this setup would be?  I'm hoping this turns out to be pretty effective, as I am getting sick of seeing TIE swarms.  This could put some variety back into what we see at the table. 

 

 

On a side SW historical question, if the Z-95 is an "older" ship, and the above is a "valid" attack plan, why would the Rebels ever move away from ships that had missiles?

 

 

Fight Terrorism!! Join the Empire!!

 

 

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At range 3 I can get target lock, then next turn I can get fire away ...

... unless the enemy is at range 1. That's where the plan may fail.

 

Edit:

Against a swarm you just shoot at range 3. Hit: great. Miss: keep missile.

 

 

 

 

On a side SW historical question, if the Z-95 is an "older" ship, and the above is a "valid" attack plan, why would the Rebels ever move away from ships that had missiles?

They moved from missiles to torpedoes. One torpedo destroyed the Death Star. Any questions?

Edited by dvor

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At range 3 I can get target lock, then next turn I can get fire away ...

... unless the enemy is at range 1. That's where the plan may fail.

 

Edit:

Against a swarm you just shoot at range 3. Hit: great. Miss: keep missile.

 

 

 

 

On a side SW historical question, if the Z-95 is an "older" ship, and the above is a "valid" attack plan, why would the Rebels ever move away from ships that had missiles?

They moved from missiles to torpedoes. One torpedo destroyed the Death Star. Any questions?

 

Missiles and Torpedos aren't presented in X-WIng as very different.  I kind of wish they had different focuses.  But instead they just kind of, do the same things, but are on different ships.

Theoretically torpedos should be more for taking out bigger ships while Missiles are better and more accurate against smaller ones.  this game doesn't do that incredibly well.

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I don't see this becoming a valid tactic simply because we could already do it with an A-Wing and nobody does. Yea, tha A-wing would cost you 5 points more, but it is still essentially the same thing, and it wouldn't become completely useless once the munition is away like the Z95 will. 

 

I don't think people understand how seriously lacking in longevity 4 HP with 2 evade is. You better have initiative or your headhunter is going to pop at 3 range.

Edited by Battalia

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But it can only be effective against 1 list: academies. Throw in obsidians or lose initiative to 4xBlue's or heck even 2 TIE Interceptors will chew apart a Z-95 at 3 range who target locked. Now you are down a fifth of your list with nothing to show for it. But that one match against howl and academies will probably net you a win. 

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But it can only be effective against 1 list: academies. Throw in obsidians or lose initiative to 4xBlue's or heck even 2 TIE Interceptors will chew apart a Z-95 at 3 range who target locked. Now you are down a fifth of your list with nothing to show for it. But that one match against howl and academies will probably net you a win. 

Yes and no.  Yes, other tie swarms will eat you.  But at the same time, only if you fly straight at them.  Besides.  If their first kill is 16 points, Oh No...

a 16 point missile carrieris useful against a lot of lists, and can make itself a less than prime target but still put out the hurt.

The difference here is that you've created a 16 point Biggs essentially.  That leaves the rest of your fleet clear to start putting the hurt on.

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Problem with low PS pilots and ordinance is obtaining the target locks. You will move first and nothing will be in range, so you have to take focus, then fire at RB3, and on the next turn you can get a TL, but not have focus.

 

Luckily the Z95 has a solution for this:

 

Cracken + Swarm Tactics

Bandit Squadron + Assault Missile + Munitions Failsafe

 

Action Phase

Bandit Squadron moves first, nothing in TL range, chooses focus as action.

Cracken moves next, choses focus.

 

Combat Phase

Cracken fires first, gives Bandit Squadron free action. Bandit Squadron pilot chooses TL.

Bandit SP fires Assault missile at PS8.

 

Cracken is incredible. Alternatively, you can prep a massive Alpha.

 

Cracken + Squad Leader

Blount + Deadeye + Assault Missile

Bandit Squadron + Assault Missile + Munitions Failsafe

Bandit Squadron + Assault Missile + Munitions Failsafe

 

Leaves you with 20 points. This will give you three Assault Missiles on the first turn of engagement ar RB3, 2 with focus behind, one that will auto hit.

 

Not sure what it will do after that, but it has a brutual first strike, especially if someone is flying in formation and not expecting this.

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I don't see this becoming a valid tactic simply because we could already do it with an A-Wing and nobody does.

That's just it, you can't. You can have at most 4 A-Wings with assault missiles. With Z-95's you can put 5 ships on the table, with 4 of them caring assault missiles.

Of those ships, one is Lt Blount who hits no matter what.

One is Cracken with SL, so he can had out 2 free actions to other ships.

3 are Tala squad at PS4, each with a failsafe in case they miss.

So you beat Academy and Obs squad for PS and tie with Black squad. You also beat Alpha and Avenger, and tie Saber in Interceptors.

Cracken also makes the moving first less of an issue since he can hand out a free action during the combat phase, meaning at least one ship can TL after everyone moves. So even Tala moves first, they still can launch at least 2 assault missiles, once of which is autohit.

4 GSP does not offer the same options as the Z's do.

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Blount + Deadeye + Assault Missile

Consider VI instead of deadeye. With PS8 you should activate late enough to get the TL you need. After the missile is gone, VI is more useful than deadeye.

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On a side SW historical question, if the Z-95 is an "older" ship, and the above is a "valid" attack plan, why would the Rebels ever move away from ships that had missiles?

Because SW doesn't follow X-wing's mechanics: three assault rockets don't take out a TIE formation. That's not me being unfriendly, that's literally the long and short of the answer.

 

The purpose of the Z-95 is to power down the big TIE swarm. To avoid having 85 pts of list countered by 51 points of Z-95, Imperials have to split up, bringing the swarm's power down into most other lists' territory, or a more expensive ship has to be added, reducing the TIE count.

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If you wanted to do an anti-swarm... swarm I would instead do:

Airen Cracken - Swarm Tactics - 21

Bandit - Assault Missile - 18

Lieutenant Blount - Assault Missile - 22

Tala x3

There are options like Deadeye on Blount, Failsafe on the Bandit, or downing the Talas to Bandits. I don't know how competitive this could be, but it looks fun!

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In the games proton torpedoes were a little more powerful, but a bit slower than concussion misisles.  Thus one was preferred for large ships and one for fighters, however both were capable of attacking either. 

 

In the game the fact you get a possible free crit with the torpedoes over a free hit with the missiles shows how the torpedoes are a bit more powerful.  The fact that a focus helps the missile more than the torpedo shows how the missile is more likely to hit from it's "speed".

 

In movie terms, both were expensive and supposseldy not used that often.  In fact suppossedly the rebel ships that attacked the death star only got 1 pair of torpedoes each, even the ships could hold 2-3 times that many, although a few elite pilots got more.

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I think blount with Assault missiles is enough. The ability to strip the stealth off of the high priority targets is a big deal.

The all missile builds hinge just a bit much on one trick. If it works you are probably winning 100 - 0. If not I imagine the exact opposite.

That being said I am huge proponent of flying casual and weird builds.

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I think blount with Assault missiles is enough. The ability to strip the stealth off of the high priority targets is a big deal.

 

 

I agree.  The threat of Blount with assault missiles is enough.  You can strip stealth or slap a formation swarm hard.

 

I perfer having the ability the ability to mitigate my opponents advantages.  Blount accomplishes this for 22 pts.

 

Not too shabby.

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I don't think I'd bother with a Failsafe on an Assault Missile carrying Z-95.  As long as you have that missile you're a big, but squishy, enough threat to take out quickly.  Carry them in numbers and hope you can get the TLs you need to get them off.

 

A potential option @ 99 points:

Cracken + Squad Leader

Blount + Swarm Tactics + Assault

Tela + Assault (x3)

 

If the Tela pilots don't get TLs you hopefully have Cracken in position allowing one to lock late in the movement phase and then letting another lock when Cracken fires.  Blount is there both because of his "auto hit" and so he can push a Tela PS up a little when needed to shoot at other PS 4s and PS 5s.  If you REALLY want Munition Failsafes you can downgrade all the Tela to Bandits (which happens to make Swarm Tactics a bigger deal) although that pushed the firing time on two of them back.  Ideally you have Blount fire and hit, two Telas able to fire because of the TL and have Focus while doing so, and then one last Tela who may be able to fire or may want to wait to see how the first three missiles fair.

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Problem with low PS pilots and ordinance is obtaining the target locks. You will move first and nothing will be in range, so you have to take focus, then fire at RB3, and on the next turn you can get a TL, but not have focus.

 

Luckily the Z95 has a solution for this:

 

Cracken + Swarm Tactics

Bandit Squadron + Assault Missile + Munitions Failsafe

The real trick with Cracken is to give him Cluster Missiles, then you get /two/ Assault Missile alpha shots.

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The real trick with Cracken is to give him Cluster Missiles, then you get /two/ Assault Missile alpha shots.

 

 

That certainly is a trick because it means Cracken needs to be within R2 of someone to get the Cluster off while you'd really like to be firing the Assault Missiles while you're still at R3.  Having Cracken pass TWO actions during the combat phase is GREAT but isn't always a boon when you're trying to Alpha Strike.  This is why putting Squad Lead or Cracken can be a nice idea; it gives you the potential to pass two actions to allied ships EVERY round instead of once when you fire the Cluster.

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I like Craken a lot.  I think the 42pt Cracken + squad + cluster and Bandit + assault is a good place to start.  Insert an awing ace or 2 of the new named xwings and you're good to go.

 

Jake likes extra actions.

Jake + refit + PTL + test pilot +outmanuever

 

Leaves 30pts... go with an ace and upgrades or 2 smalls...

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I plan on picking up 3 Z95s. Squadron would look be: Cracken + PTL, Blount + Swarm Tactics, and a Bandit; all with Assault Missiles. That leaves 32pts to play with, which I'll probably use on Wedge + PTL, Predator, or Outmaneuver. Btw posting from my mobile, sorry for the lack of formatting :S

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I don't think I'd bother with a Failsafe on an Assault Missile carrying Z-95.  As long as you have that missile you're a big, but squishy, enough threat to take out quickly.  Carry them in numbers and hope you can get the TLs you need to get them off.

 

A potential option @ 99 points:

Cracken + Squad Leader

Blount + Swarm Tactics + Assault

Tela + Assault (x3)

 

If the Tela pilots don't get TLs you hopefully have Cracken in position allowing one to lock late in the movement phase and then letting another lock when Cracken fires.  Blount is there both because of his "auto hit" and so he can push a Tela PS up a little when needed to shoot at other PS 4s and PS 5s.  If you REALLY want Munition Failsafes you can downgrade all the Tela to Bandits (which happens to make Swarm Tactics a bigger deal) although that pushed the firing time on two of them back.  Ideally you have Blount fire and hit, two Telas able to fire because of the TL and have Focus while doing so, and then one last Tela who may be able to fire or may want to wait to see how the first three missiles fair.

 

Im actually tempted to build this myself, not only does it look pretty effective, can sustain the assault over 2 turns (if it can stay at range), has lots of bodies out there and is relatively simple to put together (5 Headhunters, 1 T-Adv for the cards).

 

I was planning on putting a Missile strike list together with Tie Bombers but this honestly looks much more fun.

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I was tempted to see if theres any advantage to rolling a bare bones Dutch over Blount but the effect is roughly the same.

 

Whether its 3 Tala's with TL and Focus or 2 Tala's with TL+F and Blount the Alpha is probably in Dutch's favour, but after that hes just a Y Wing and at least Blount has Swarm to pass around.

Edited by Sonikgav

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People said similar things about Bombers with assault missiles, don't forget.

The Assault Missile Z95 lists will still have to beat other lists in order to get to the top, after all, and in my experience, the Swarm Match up is more rare than pretty much any list type :P You might see 2, 4 ship rebel lists to every 1 swarm.

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Admittedly yes but most rebel fleets also start in Formation. Its rare to see a list spread out to the point where the Assault Missiles will never work, and even then, with a spread out formation those Missiles are still mutliple shots at (usually) R2.

 

The real problem list (as usual) will be the big heavy hitter lists with YT's etc, things that are designed to weather a beating like Defenders and Y-Wings, and possibly Phantoms as those Green Dice will save alot, and the return firepower will shred Z-95's. 

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I have a feeling that Cracken with Swarm Tactics is going to be in just about everyone of my list.  Cheap PS buff and a free action.  Why would I ever take Garven again?  Haven't playtested him yet, but hot **** that sounds good to me.

Edited by Nickotine42

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