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Theory tested and appears to be confirmed as Law. Asked this question two days and got a response already!

Not sure the questions was fully understood, but it has significant implications. I will be starting a different thread to discuss this ruling.

 

++++

Hello! Can talents like Scathing Tirade be used in conjunction with the Influence control upgrade that allows the user to add their Force dice to coercion checks? Or are they each considered to require an Action and as such cannot be combined? I ask because the description of Scathing Tirade indicates "Take a Scathing Tirade Action and roll a coercion check", while the base rules for using Force powers indicates they require an Action to use in structured time unless otherwise stated (p. 282 of F&D). The Control talent description just states "...the user may roll an influence power check as part of the pool…" with no qualifier that would trump the basic rule.

Re: Fantasy Flight Games [Rules Questions] - Star Wars: Edge of the Empire: 2017-02-08 17:08:25
Samuel Stewart <sstewart@fantasyflightgames.com>

Today, 10:03 AMYou

Hello Bob,
 
Generally, no, they cannot be combined.
 
Hope this helps!
 
Sam Stewart
RPG Manager
Fantasy Flight Games

 

Edited by Magnus Arcanus

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Yeah, that does seem to be the trick, you have to put your question under EoTE if you want a response. I just sent a question about an hour ago and already got a response back:

 

Quote

Tramp Graphics Asked on On Feb 9, 2017, at 2:42 PM:

Rules Question:
I have a question regarding Force Push and Force Pull. If you look at the canon, including the movies and cartoons, we see a number of instances where Force Psuh and Force Pull are not used as a "ranged attack" to hurl individuals at other individuals. Rather, they are often used to pull targets to the user or push them away at relatively high speed, but not necessarily injuring the. For example: Yoda Force Pushes Palpatine across a room causing him to tumble head over heels across his desk and land in a jumbe on the floor, but otherwise unharmed, Kanan using Force Push to propel his allies across a chasm. Kylo Ren to yank a First Order Officer to him from across the room, and later to shove Rey back several meters resulting in her colliding with a tree, and staggered, but otherwise unhurt. Now, based upon the RAW, these all fit within the Bind movement upgrade the full text of which states on page 286 of F&D: "Spend Force Point to immediately move the target one range band toward or away from the user." Now, to me that reads Force Push and Force Pull. yet many other claim that Move is the only power to use for Force Push and Force Pull no matter what; even if you're not trying to use it as a ranged attack in order to inflict wound damage (ala the Move Hurl upgrade), and you, yourself stated that the base Move power only moves things (and people) at roughly walking speed. So my question is, CAN you use Bind's movement upgrade for these non wound inflicting uses of Force Push and Force Pull, as the upgrade seems to be intended, or are you required to always use Move no matter your intent? And if it is the latter then what is the point of the Bind Movement upgrade if it is not to simulate Force Push and Force Pull? Because, as written, that upgrade describes those abilities to a tee.

Sam Stewart responded: 

Hello Michael,

 
You can use Bind to move people closer to you and further away from you, as per its upgrade. You can also use Move to move people closer to you and further away from you, as per the upgrade. 
 
Honestly, I’m not sure what your question is. Does it really matter what Force power you use to shove someone away from you? The end result is the same.
 
Sam Stewart
RPG Manager
Fantasy Flight Games
 
 

 

So, yes, Force Push and Force Pull can indeed be done using Bind's movement upgrade. It's not limited to Move

And here's a follow up question that he responded to within a few minutes. (that was fast).

Quote
On Feb 9, 2017, at 3:16 PM,Tramp Graphics wrote:
Well, the issue is that almost everyone is saying the Force Push and Force Pull are always done through Move no matter what because that was the default for EotE before F&D came out with Bind and its Movement upgrade. So there has been a big (32 page long) argument over whether or not Bind's movement upgrade is intended to be the non ranged attack version of Force Push and Force Pull, as we see in canon, and can be used as such, or if Move is the only power to be used as those specific powers. 
 
A second question, while I'm at it. You recently mentioned that to activate the movement upgrade, you do have to pay the base FP cost for Bind before using its Movement upgrade (which I always assumed was true anyway). The question is, after spending that base FP cost, do you always have to actually immobilize the target or does spending the additional FP for the movement upgrade change how the power works so that you're moving the target instead of immobilizing him? 
 
Sam Stewart wrote:

No, you would have to immobilize your target if you spent the points to immobilize your target.

 
Sam Stewart
RPG Manager
Fantasy Flight Games
 

 

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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Quote
Rules Question:
Question about the Jet Pack, Rocket Boots & R-82 Jump Boots. 1.) Is there a way to use any of these for non-atmospheric flight, such as with the vacuum sealed armor attachment?

Hello Barron,

 
Sure! I think that’s perfectly reasonable.
 
Hope this helps!
 
Sam Stewart
RPG Manager
Fantasy Flight Games

For the record, this is the first rules response I have received after posting around 2-3 other questions. The response time was super fast. Also, looks like vacuum sealed armor just became more valuable.

Edited by GroggyGolem

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3 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

So would they still use Piloting (Planetary) or would they use Piloting (Space) under those circumstances?

That's a super good question. I don't know. I'm happy I even got a response about the initial question. I could see it as Piloting Planetary still just for consistency.

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Space. No question about this, you are in Zero G, you deal with a complete different flight model, physic and approach. Space it is. 

Anyone allows pilots to use Piloting Space when flying through beggar's canyon in a X-wing just because X-Wings are mostly use with Piloting (Space)? ^_^

Atmospheric flight is completely different from zero-g environments. 

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6 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Atmospheric flight is completely different from zero-g environments. 

If maneuvering in space in this game actually operated differently I'd agree with you but space battles in star wars don't really fall under what i'd consider a "zero g environment"

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1 minute ago, SEApocalypse said:

It comes with a literally different skill set, it might not look much like zero-g or build ships following zero g rules, but it certainly is a complete different environment.

Besides, maneuvering does actually operates in space on a different scale than on planets, the range bands on planetary scale have two different categories for space and planets. Which is actually odd in context that star wars battles are portrait as just as close range as in atmospheres, but well … not the only easy to ignore odd thing in the rules and fluff of the rpg ^-^ 

I'll agree with you on that. I was only thinking of the visual aspect that we see portrayed where ships bank in a zero-g environment.

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Poor Sam is working on a Sunday.

Question Asked by Kaosoe:
Does temporarily increasing your brawn with Stim Application or Enhance also temporarily raise your soak? What about Wound Threshold?

Answered by Sam Stewart:
Soak yes, wound threshold, no.

 

The answer was pretty obvious but I had a lingering doubt if temporarily raising soak affected any derived stats. Good to know it behaves just as it would if permanently increasing it through Dedication or Cybernetics.

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OK, here's another question and follow-up question, I just asked and got a very quick response from Sam on:

 

Quote
On Feb 12, 2017, at 2:21 PM,  Tramp Graphics Wrote Rules Question:
I've got a quick (or not so quick) question regarding Battle Meditation, namely about an aspect of the power, as it was originally conceived, that the version in F&D lacks; namely the ability to turn enemies against one another. This, of course is what we see Nomi Sunrider do in the original Tales of the Jedi comics, to first save her daughter from a pair of Hssiss, and later drive off a band of pirates. In the orgininal WEG suppliment for TotJ, this aspect was one of two ways to use Battle Meditation, In the D20 game, it was a Force Skill called Battle Influence which required the Battle Meditation Feat to use. So the question how do I accomplish this aspect of Battle meditation in this system and why wasn't it included as an upgrade for the actual Battle Meditation power?
Sam Stewart Responded:
This sounds like a function of the Influence power, and I would use Influence to accomplish it.
 
Hope this helps!
 
Sam Stewart
RPG Manager
Fantasy Flight Games

Follow up:

 

Quote
On Feb 12, 2017, at 2:37 PM, Tramp Graphics wrote:

 

OK, how? What upgrades would you use since there is no vocalizations, Nomi just visualizes her enemies fighting one another and moments later that visualization becomes reality. 
 
Sam Stewart Wrote:
 
 
I would suggest you use the Influence control upgrade that allows you to manipulate the emotions of others to incite them into rage against their friends. Some of this is also up to your GM, of course, and as always, it may have unexpected consequences in gameplay!
 
Also, keep in mind that there is a great deal of material in the Legends portion of Star Wars concerning things people can or cannot do with the Force. Some of it may not be covered because there is simply too much material to realistically represent in a single game (even an extensive one). Some of it may also not be represented because it’s Legends, and no longer accurately represents Star Wars canon. However, if there’s something that you wish to accomplish in your game that the rules don’t enable, bring it up with your GM! I’m sure the two of you can work out a mutually agreeable solution that’ll let you and your group have fun at the table.
 
Hope this helps!

 

And here's a final "Nomi Sunrider question:

Quote

OK, here's another question and follow-up question, I just asked and got a very quick response from Sam on:

 

Quote
On Feb 12, 2017, at 2:21 PM,  Tramp Graphics Wrote Rules Question:
I've got a quick (or not so quick) question regarding Battle Meditation, namely about an aspect of the power, as it was originally conceived, that the version in F&D lacks; namely the ability to turn enemies against one another. This, of course is what we see Nomi Sunrider do in the original Tales of the Jedi comics, to first save her daughter from a pair of Hssiss, and later drive off a band of pirates. In the orgininal WEG suppliment for TotJ, this aspect was one of two ways to use Battle Meditation, In the D20 game, it was a Force Skill called Battle Influence which required the Battle Meditation Feat to use. So the question how do I accomplish this aspect of Battle meditation in this system and why wasn't it included as an upgrade for the actual Battle Meditation power?
Sam Stewart Responded:
This sounds like a function of the Influence power, and I would use Influence to accomplish it.
 
Hope this helps!
 
Sam Stewart
RPG Manager
Fantasy Flight Games

Follow up:

 

Quote
On Feb 12, 2017, at 3:03 PM, Tramp Graphics wrote:
OK, one final Nomi Sunrider question:
 
In TotJ The Sith War, Nomi uses a power called Sever Force (a power even mentioned in the Nexus of Power Sourcebook) to permanently block Ulic Qel Droma's ability to use the Force. This was a Light Side power designed for use against Dark Siders to essentially imprison them in a "wall of light". The closest power in the rules so far is Suppress, but that's not really even close to what Sever Force could do. So how do we do it? 
Sam Stewart wrote: 
That’s not currently covered in the existing Force powers, so you would want to speak to your GM about how best to go about it, if such a situation came up. I would recommend it be something of a “one off” event in any case. 
 
Hope this helps!

 

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Question 

Quote

Rules Question:
If a disruptor weapon inflicts a Critical hit it's minimum result is Crippled. The Durable Talent reduces a Critiical hits result 10 per rank. Which of these effects takes precedence and is applied last (i.e., can Durable reduce a disruptor critical to be less severe than Crippled)?

Answer 

Quote

The disruptor would apply the crit, then Durable would reduce that result. So yes, Durable can protect you from a disruptor shot.

Hope that helps!

Sam Stewart
RPG Manager
Fantasy Flight Games

 

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On 11/02/2017 at 1:45 AM, SEApocalypse said:

Space. No question about this, you are in Zero G, you deal with a complete different flight model, physic and approach. Space it is. 

Anyone allows pilots to use Piloting Space when flying through beggar's canyon in a X-wing just because X-Wings are mostly use with Piloting (Space)? ^_^

Atmospheric flight is completely different from zero-g environments. 

I'd use Piloting (Space) to fly an X-Wing in atmosphere when I'm GMing. It's a spacecraft, it uses Piloting (Space). Real-world, flying in space is completely different, but this is Star Wars. Spacecraft fly like planes, they bank when they turn, they stop if you turn the engines off. Anyone tries bringing real-world physics into my game like that, I flip a destiny point as penalty from breaking the idiom.

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Here's another follow-up from my last question (with a little context that others probably wouldn't need). 

Quote
On Feb 12, 2017, at 3:24 PM, Tramp Graphics wrote:

 

The game that's getting stated is going to be "round robin" GMing,  GM duties rotating among all of the players in turn. and will involve the players long-played characters, including ones converted from previous systems. My character is one such character (originally a D6 character and converted to D20, and now to F&D)and had been learning this power in D20 with the intent to use it against his nemesis in a future final showdown. Right now I have Suppress as a stand-in, but I really want that power back. Would using a Destiny Point while using Suppress (most likely including its Mastery upgrade) be a good potential stand-in until the actual power is officially brought in (if it ever is)? 
 
Sam Stewart wrote: 
I would suggest checking with your entire group (since everyone is going to be GMing) and make sure everyone is OK with whatever you decide to do (including the Destiny Point idea). Also, don’t be afraid to change things in mid-game if they prove to be overpowering or frustrating for the other players.
 
Hope this helps!
 
 
Sam Stewart
RPG Manager
Fantasy Flight Games

 

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On 2/10/2017 at 3:55 PM, GroggyGolem said:
Rules Question:
Question about the Jet Pack, Rocket Boots & R-82 Jump Boots. 1.) Is there a way to use any of these for non-atmospheric flight, such as with the vacuum sealed armor attachment?

Hello Barron,

 
Sure! I think that’s perfectly reasonable.
 
Hope this helps!
 
Sam Stewart
RPG Manager
Fantasy Flight Games

For the record, this is the first rules response I have received after posting around 2-3 other questions. The response time was super fast. Also, looks like vacuum sealed armor just became more valuable.

I suggest that you ask a follow-up question to clarify because of the fact that each of the actual descriptions of those items state that they "...only operate in an atmosphere...".

Just because you are wearing vacuum seals in your armor doesn't make a jetpack operate differently. These items are intended to operate on combustion and so they cannot function in a vacuum (or underwater for that matter). Iron Man's flight systems stop functioning when the atmosphere got too thin because there wasn't enough oxygen to sustain the reaction when he got too high up in the atmosphere.

It needs an atmosphere to function, you being able to operate in vacuum doesn't mean your jet pack can.

Previous Star Wars games have featured jetpacks and repulsor packs that only functioned in atmosphere and space packs that only functioned in space, but to my knowledge. I do not recall there ever being one item that was usable in either circumstance in Star Wars. Make a Space pack.

I think Sam answered that a little too quickly.

Edited by Dakkar98

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Per requests, here is the follow-up about using a Jet Pack/Rocket Boots/Jump Boots in non-atmospheric flight.

 

Quote
Rules Question:
I have a few follow up questions about using Jet Packs, Rocket Boots & Jump Boots in non-atmospheric flight with the use of the vacuum sealed armor attachment. 1.) Would flight in this way begin to drain the amount of available oxygen the user has? 2.) Seeing as these devices are not initially meant for space, does this mean that they cannot leave & enter atmosphere on their own? 3.) Would you rule that the user has to use Piloting Space when using these devices in space?

 

Hello Barron,

 
Because these questions are not specifically covered by the rules, you should use your best judgement and common sense when coming up with answers (also, most of these points are likely to be minor issues in actual gameplay). For example, it’s fair to assume that the jetpack and rocket boots are not linked to the user’s O2 tanks, so they would operate independently of a spacesuit (tying the two systems together seems unnecessarily complex and possibly dangerous!). Also, using a jetpack to break orbit (given the amount of energy involved) is probably unrealistic, and likewise, they probably aren’t powerful enough to slow you down so that you wouldn’t incinerate upon re-entry. 
 
To your final question, yes, Piloting (Space) probably makes more sense when using them in space.
 
Hope this helps, and I definitely encourage you and your GM to work out solutions for issues like this at your game table as they come up. 
 
 
Sam Stewart
RPG Manager
Fantasy Flight Games


 

 

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Fussing about the physics of using a jetpack in space seems kind of against the spirit of Star Wars to me. It's not like real world space physics even apply in this setting, sound travels in space and starfighters move like real planes.

Probably best that the developer stance is to handle it however you see fit, seeing as I assume other GMs would have different views on the topic.

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Here we have a jump the shark moment where Sam's answer does not follow the norms set up for the game. Up until this last comment, it's been really easy: If it's a starship, it uses Piloting (Space) even when it's being operated in an atmosphere. If it's a vehicle, it uses Piloting (Planetary) even when it's being operated outside of an atmosphere. Only a few odd exceptions (such as the idiocy of adding walker legs to your Star Destroyer) change this.

Wait, I forgot the stupidity of the Corellian bow too. Nevermind, we're way past the shark.

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 I think we should get this conversation moved elsewhere.

On the Iron Man thing I recalled it tends to be low temperatures and freezing that stopped his progress.

Rockets are pretty straightforward, not needing an atmosphere to push against like propellers or wings, and not needing one for fuel (except in certain rockets on the drawing board but not in use which will harvest some of it as they fly, thus reducing take-off weight).

Straightforward in principle, at least, engineering an enormous explosive and then having it controlled is far from simple.

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16 minutes ago, SladeWeston said:

Wait, but don't the personal flight devices all have a flight ceiling listed?  I mean regardless of how bad his answer was, doesn't the fact that they have a max flight height make it pretty clear that they won't work in space since that is well above the flight ceiling?  What am I missing?

The jetpack in the EotE core book doesn't have any max flight height listed, don't know about the others off-hand. Unless you read the line saying it's only capable of atmospheric flight as referring to the flight ceiling?

I mean, you could start out in space. Leave a starship through an airlock while it's zipping through space, for example.

 

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