All-Terrain Driver talent and terrain

[SSB_Shadow 46]

I have a question regarding this talent in Enter the Unknown book (and AoE, I think): All-Terrain Driver. Basically it makes it that the driver no longer gets any setback dice for difficult terrain, and I am looking for a clarification.

Does this make the pilot completely immune for setbacks no matter how rough it is? Maybe obvious answer to that but then I'm wondering what point does Skilled Jockey talent have after that? (That talent reduces a setback die for pilot checks per rank).

[Jegergryte 1,978]

Since it says "penalties" and does not define what that is it could also go towards whatever upgrades are applied to the pilot check - whether from the normal speed/silhouette calculations, upgrades from the difficult manoeuvres entry (a slightly different take on the whole thing) which could include setback dice. Also, it wouldn't be far fetched, in my opinion, to look at the difficult terrain entry in the personal combat chapter - basically requiring second manoeuvre to move/change range band.

 

So, what I'm saying is: good question. My suggestion: be creative and think beyond setback dice.

 

On the other issue, setback dice applied to pilot checks are rarely only from terrain, the vehicle's handling (if negative), enemy actions, critical hits/injuries (if any applies can't be bothered to check) and other such things can also apply setback dice that would require one or more ranks in skilled jokey to ignore. Also skilled jokey applies to both pilot skills, whereas all-terrain driver does not.

[awayputurwpn 7,720]

Skilled Jokey: the comic-relief talent. 

 

"So a Jawa, a Kaminoan, and a Wookiee walk into a cantina..."

[SSB_Shadow 46]

Since it says "penalties" and does not define what that is it could also go towards whatever upgrades are applied to the pilot check - whether from the normal speed/silhouette calculations, upgrades from the difficult manoeuvres entry (a slightly different take on the whole thing) which could include setback dice. Also, it wouldn't be far fetched, in my opinion, to look at the difficult terrain entry in the personal combat chapter - basically requiring second manoeuvre to move/change range band.

 

So, what I'm saying is: good question. My suggestion: be creative and think beyond setback dice.

 

On the other issue, setback dice applied to pilot checks are rarely only from terrain, the vehicle's handling (if negative), enemy actions, critical hits/injuries (if any applies can't be bothered to check) and other such things can also apply setback dice that would require one or more ranks in skilled jokey to ignore. Also skilled jokey applies to both pilot skills, whereas all-terrain driver does not.

Ooooooooh, you are correct! It says all forms of penalties and not necessarily Setback dice. That is actually quite powerful for the land driver.

 

And yes, I honestly don't know why I didn't think of those other aspects. Now I feel kinda dumb asking this. Well, thank you for your answer.

[awayputurwpn 7,720]

And yes, I honestly don't know why I didn't think of those other aspects. Now I feel kinda dumb asking this.

 

You got me thinking about it and I realized I'd been interpreting it too narrowly as well, so the question was definitely helpful! 

[Jegergryte 1,978]

When I think about it, I do feel that the talent refers to setback dice, but it seems open to interpretation (so one should feel free to do just that). Most penalties from terrain would be setback dice - a check in itself isn't a penalty I'd say so I think it refers mainly to setback dice and the potential upgrades as listed under "Celestial Hazards and Difficult Maneuvers" heading. Although the talent doesn't refer to a check, at all, only penalties, which could mean... ignore any check demanded by difficult terrain as per the previously mentioned heading?

 

What other way could difficult terrain affect a pilot (planetary) check that is not a setback die or an upgrade? Increases in difficulty? Lowered speed? Reduced manoevrability?

 

I'd be hesitant to apply it to the actual speed/silhouette pool, as that isn't terrain but the vehicle itself...

[Col. Orange 1,664]

I'm wondering what point does Skilled Jockey talent have after that? (That talent reduces a setback die for pilot checks per rank).

 

Skilled Jockey works in spaaaaaaaace, All Terrain Driver doesn't.

[awayputurwpn 7,720]

What other way could difficult terrain affect a pilot (planetary) check that is not a setback die or an upgrade? Increases in difficulty? Lowered speed? Reduced manoevrability?

 

I'd be hesitant to apply it to the actual speed/silhouette pool, as that isn't terrain but the vehicle itself...

This interested me! Look at the skill on CRB page 115: checks are usually called for when the craft is completely foreign, or when you're in a race, or when you're in a chase. This is telling to me, because it reminds me of something: you don't just drive though rough terrain to drive through rough terrain. You drive through it to get somewhere. So usually, your checks aren't being called for because of the terrain itself. Usually, the terrain is simply a complication. When it is, any Setbacks (Table 7-15 on CRB 253) due to difficult terrain are penalties. This is different, IMO, from navigation hazards (page 240) which DO call for checks and are not, IMO, "difficult terrain." Likewise, Difficulty should be based on the vehicle's speed or on the opposing pilot's skill and is not a "penalty" caused by driving through difficult terrain.

Because of the wording of the All-Terrain Driver talent, and the table 7-15 on page 253, I would submit that this talent is designed to ignore any Setbacks resulting from difficult terrain.

[Jegergryte 1,978]

Aye.

 

I think setback dice mainly, but there is the last entry on the navigational hazards page, lower right hand side on the page. I'd be inclined to invent other penalties too though, like borrowing from personal combat: requiring a second manoeuvre to move the same amount of distance as one would normally let you, I like that idea. I'd also be inclined to let it reduce or downgrade difficulties of purely difficult terrain which difficulty is not based on silhouette/speed. That's me though.

[Khyrith 58]

Would you think this Talent applies to ALL environmental effects?

Example, lets say the crew is being chased through a dark, misty, forested swamp.   As a GM I would add setbacks for all three effects (1-3 each dependent on severity).

Would this talent apply to only the setback for the TREES (as terrain, per se) or for the lighting and visibility impairments as well.?

[Stan Fresh 2,465]

18 hours ago, Khyrith said:

Would you think this Talent applies to ALL environmental effects?

No, because it says terrain, not environmental effects.

Mist and darkness aren't part of the terrain.

[SEApocalypse 4,443]

On 4.6.2014 at 7:25 PM, SSB_Shadow said:

Does this make the pilot completely immune for setbacks no matter how rough it is? Maybe obvious answer to that but then I'm wondering what point does Skilled Jockey talent have after that? (That talent reduces a setback die for pilot checks per rank).

All terrain effects seems to be ignored. But terrain is not the only source for setbacks, handling, advantages spent, threats generates, damage, critical hits against the pilot, etc all can add setbacks from other sources to the check. 

So yeah, dark, misty, forested swamp should not add setbacks on piloting(planetary) checks. It's a really powerful talent as it should be, because the driver as not much else going for him. ;-)

[Stan Fresh 2,465]

8 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

So yeah, dark, misty, forested swamp should not add setbacks on piloting(planetary) checks. It's a really powerful talent as it should be, because the driver as not much else going for him. ;-)

Darkness or mist aren't part of the terrain any more than having your cheek constantly pinched by the co-pilot is.