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DomaGB

Timescape

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It's still redundant. Releasing Timescape at the same time there is an entire WH40K Talisman-esque board game is a waste of FFG's time and money.

Edited by BatHead

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It may sell, it may not, but FFG has shown that it will surprise us in different ways:

 

The Nether Realm was a complete mystery, until it debuted. I don't know that I would have guessed something like that could happen.

 

It was followed rather quickly by Firelands. When have any two expansions come out in such a short time from each other? Granted the Nether Realm is a short and simple expansion, but it caught many of us by surprise.

 

Now, with Woodlands coming out in about 6, 7 months from Fireland, it seems like that was pretty quick too.

 

I actually see that Timescape could 'survive' or re-emerge as a POD with some key differences that might make it fit in more with the fantasy themes.  So who knows? As a POD it might only be interesting for us completists, Timescape fans, and perhaps those willing to try it.

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Timescape would work even despite the fact that the Relic is already released. Relic is a core game and a main game of a whole new universe. The Timescape is just a small part of some universe. It doesn't really need to be a part of the Relic universe, can be another.

The Space Marines exist even in another worlds and dimensions, the WH40K is NOT the only universe with them.

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Felis, it would be possible to merge the Talisman with Relic. I even once or twice thought how to do that. The only issue I have encountered was the board itself. You will had to "destroy" the Talisman board and add to it Relic board spaces. There are some other small issues but the biggest one is balance. The Relic characters are uber compared to the characters from Talisman. If we would deal with the balance, the rest is a piece of cake.

 

I've managed one game so far of Relic, but have played a lot of Talisman Revised 4e (Primarily because of the Steam Digital Edition).  I agree that's its doable, especially with Print on Demand.  FFG could do Talisman to Relic and Relic to Talisman set for the Core Games of just the Player cards and that would work.  They could make a full big box expansion with the Timescape Board and the Player Cards for Relic and Talisman to do a transition.  Then offer the other Player Cards as Print on Demand.    

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I don't think Nether Realm was made by FFG. Also I don't think Timescape can be a P.O.D. because it requires a board.

Whatever do you mean? Nether Realm was designed by Jon from Talisman Island and published by FFG. For all intents and purposes it was made by FFG. As for POD Timescape... ->

 

 

Felis, it would be possible to merge the Talisman with Relic. I even once or twice thought how to do that. The only issue I have encountered was the board itself. You will had to "destroy" the Talisman board and add to it Relic board spaces. There are some other small issues but the biggest one is balance. The Relic characters are uber compared to the characters from Talisman. If we would deal with the balance, the rest is a piece of cake.

 

I've managed one game so far of Relic, but have played a lot of Talisman Revised 4e (Primarily because of the Steam Digital Edition).  I agree that's its doable, especially with Print on Demand.  FFG could do Talisman to Relic and Relic to Talisman set for the Core Games of just the Player cards and that would work.  They could make a full big box expansion with the Timescape Board and the Player Cards for Relic and Talisman to do a transition.  Then offer the other Player Cards as Print on Demand.    

 

It could work with just additional characters as POD. I would definitely buy a character pack like that.

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Saturday was a big game day. As I may have shared, I bought several games last fall and early spring this year and have to try them. On Saturday we finally played Relic and Defenders of the Realm.

Relic may be able to be tweaked for Talisman but would take lots of work and does NOT have the same feel as Timescape.

The original Timescape had that off sci-fi feel you often experienced in the 50's through the 80's (especially in the 50's and 80's), and I did not get much of that feel in Relic.

And while slightly off topic, wanna say to those who want a new Talisman with the Relic rules are wrong. As I had guessed and voiced earlier without playing it, that Talisman is great as is. In fact, Relic would destroy Talisman, particularly the PvP! And even tho PvP may be added in the expansion, which I haven't played, as I understand it its only for evil vs good. But even if that was tweaked, the game play is different. And would completely make Talisman different, and it wouldn't be Talisman.

Relic is good, my friend loved it and wants to get the expansion, and in fact wanted to play a 2nd game immediately after, but I wanted to play a different new game and we did so.

Relic does NOT fill the need for Timescape. Nor should Talisman be redone with Relic rules.

Edited by DomaGB

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I have the 2nd Edition version and enjoy playing with it. My group who I play 2nd Edition with tend to only use it say 1/5 games, with some mixed opinions. When we play we tend to stick to the Timescape characters, as they seemed rather overpowered compared to other characters. The objects are great to pick up but can really help one player run away with the game early on; but I guess that is the risk of plunging into the Timescape board!

 

The Timescape homebrew has highly interested me and is the top of the 'to print' list (just got to wait until I am back at work/uni) to print things out!) : I think it looks absolutley great on the pc and hope it looks as good when printed! ;) Once I have played with it I will give a review of what I think of it.

 

As for an official expansion, well if it ever got made I would have to buy it wouldn't I!!! :lol:

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I certainly appreciate that many people follow that Fantasy lies in the past and Science Fiction lies to the future.

Whilst this is more important when writing a book (unless you're specifically focusing on time travel) it's less relevant to a game and can make it quite interesting.

If you imagine all the weapons from Space Hulk or Warhammer 40K that FFG can build into a Timescape expansion.

I think that to overcome the power of the weapons in the timescape, FFG simply need to get more creative. The past looks to magic than science and so it's an opportunity to bolster up the spell deck with the Timescape expansion.

Imagine a space marine character coming through the Timescape to confront a Battle Mage with his +5 flame thrower.

The Battle Mage waves his magic wand, and shouts.....Metal.....to Water!

Card: Metal to Water
Cast when you are about to engage in combat.
When cast, all Weapons belonging to both parties must roll to see if they are turned to water.
Sword - 6+
Axe - 5+
Gun - 4+
Any weapon turned to water is discarded and does not get a its die roll during combat.

I'm sure you guys can think of others! :D

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Fantasy is not always in the past. In the Shanara series, fantasy elements like magic came from Nuclear war. I also saw this in the 70's or 80's cartoon movie Wizard. And I know it exists in other fictional accounts as well.

 

I think this mis-labeling, is a serious cause for the dislike of Timescape. Thus unwarranted.

Edited by DomaGB

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Fantasy is not always in the past. In the Shanara series, fantasy elements like magic came from Nuclear war. I also saw this in the 70's or 80's cartoon movie Wizard. And I know it exists in other fictional accounts as well.

 

I think this mis-labeling, is a serious cause for the dislike of Timescape. Thus unwarranted.

I love Thundarr the Barbarian as much as the next guy, but I don't want to see a new Timescape for 4th Ed. At least, not like it was done before.

 

Back in the 80's, Warhammer stuff was intermixed in Talisman very noticeably. The same company made both game lines, and cross-promotion was never a bad idea. 40K was brand new, so why not give it the Talisman treatment like Warhammer Fantasy had been.

 

Now, FFG makes Talisman from a license, and has never included remakes of very heavily Warhammer related cards. No Chaos Dwarves or Goblin Fanatics. My guess is the license they have from GW does not include Warhammer related items, which brings us to Timescape. In 2nd Ed. the concept that the realm of Talisman is a planet lost in the Warp residing in the same Universe as 40K was plausible, giving at least some cursory reasoning behind the inclusion of Timescape. But 4th Ed. Talisman very obviously does not exist in the Warhammer universe, it is a realm of pure Fantasy separate from other properties. Timescape does not have a place here.

 

A "Timescape" that involved magical dimensions and such, perhaps even some of the things from other dimensions use high technology, maybe that could work. I'd personally prefer high technology didn't rear it's head here, but that's my personal aesthetics. Ultimately though, I think Talisman sells well enough without needing the added expense of additional licenses from GW, and purely from a financial perspective, there is no reason to go that route for what could potentially be the worst selling expansion in the line. And even if it managed to be the best selling expansion ever, the profit margins would be heavily reduced due to additional expenses paid to GW.

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No license? OK they can create Spacescape. It doesn't have to be the same. Nor does it have to as Magiczny Miecz to Talisman, a cheap remake. Yeah sure I would absolutely love a faithful Timescape but if a license fee makes it unprofitable they can do another Sci-Fi add in. And that would be great.

 

But I am rooting for Timescape!

 

:lol:

 

BTW, I loved Thundarr, and forgotten about it! Great example!!!

Edited by DomaGB

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Let me note that my theory concerning licenses is unverified and purely speculation on my part, however the lack of Warhammer Universe related cards being reproduced seems to back up this observation.

 

And Ookla the Mok was a bad mama jama. He was the Chewbacca of the post-apocalypse!

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Now, FFG makes Talisman from a license, and has never included remakes of very heavily Warhammer related cards. No Chaos Dwarves or Goblin Fanatics. My guess is the license they have from GW does not include Warhammer related items, which brings us to Timescape. In 2nd Ed. the concept that the realm of Talisman is a planet lost in the Warp residing in the same Universe as 40K was plausible, giving at least some cursory reasoning behind the inclusion of Timescape. But 4th Ed. Talisman very obviously does not exist in the Warhammer universe, it is a realm of pure Fantasy separate from other properties. Timescape does not have a place here.

 

A "Timescape" that involved magical dimensions and such, perhaps even some of the things from other dimensions use high technology, maybe that could work. I'd personally prefer high technology didn't rear it's head here, but that's my personal aesthetics. Ultimately though, I think Talisman sells well enough without needing the added expense of additional licenses from GW, and purely from a financial perspective, there is no reason to go that route for what could potentially be the worst selling expansion in the line. And even if it managed to be the best selling expansion ever, the profit margins would be heavily reduced due to additional expenses paid to GW.

 

 

Actually, I don't think it's a problem with licencing.  FFG have already done the hard bit by doing Relic - i.e. got a commercial licence from Games Workshop regarding the 40K universe and put it in with Talisman rules.  Licensing of a Talisman expansion with 40K ideas would cost no more than Relic's expansions.

 

Games Workshop is much more open to licensing these days especially as they've seen that FFG and computer games makers can do a much better job to a larger scale then doing things inhouse.

 

There is soooo much in the 40K universe that it would add a nice different addition to the game.  There are naysayers out there that think that Relic fitted that requirement, but I personally don't like Relic - it plays with less randomness but with less flavour/richness of the world.  However, its great to have 40K fans be able to play a Warhammer 40K character and to use the various objects from that universe.  It makes the game journey feel very different and that's what Talisman is all about!

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I had my doubts about Relic, and my 1st game was "blah". I have played 4 games now and like it. I will be buying the expansion. My friend already bought the game and expansion after I introduced it to him. He loves it!

 

I agree it lacks theme, I just fight the monsters and don't read the cards. But I like it. It does not scratch the itch for Timescape, nor can it easily be connected to Talisman as an expansion.

 

If you count RoboRally as Sci-fi, I would say Relic is my 2nd favorite Sci-Fi game. But Relic is not a top 5 board game in my book when counting all games. Maybe top 10.

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If you're ancient like me, you will recall that Andre Norton, a well celebrated Sci Fi *and* Fantasy writer had a very popular series (or three) in her many books:

 

  the Witch World.  Which was a fantasy, medieval-ish planet "so far away in time and space" that in several of the novels there were Gates which took you to other worlds, or brought other beings to the Witch World.

 

 In the original novel, an Earth man comes to the Witch World and ends up remaining there. It seems that only women are witches or magical users but eventually after the first few novels, we discover there are male and female magic-users.

 

But the first few novels dealt with Alien beings "The Kolder" who brought tech to conquer the WW, but were unable. Future novels have the daughter of the Earth man (and the Witch he wed) travel to futuristic but dystopian, ruined worlds and those were pretty exciting adventures.

 

  If it is done right, it could work, because it has in the genre. Sci fi / fantasy fiction existed before all these games. It worked.

 

Why not again?  (but more like the Witch World did it!)

Edited by 0beron

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Timescape was fun in 2nd edition in a quirky way but I would hate to see it developed for 4th ed.  The game is too big and serious to accommodate such a strong scifi element.

 

Instead I would like to see a large box expansion introducing the realms of Demons and Celestials an all the strange wonderful realms of extraplanar fantasy.  I am fully confident we will see something along this line.

 

Certain elements of Timescape might work in a POD.  The concept of Time Travel and the Explorer and Scientist characters could work maybe.  As much as I enjoyed playing the Terminator (Cyborg) He would just be silly in 4th edition.

 

Instaed of Sci-fi I beleive we will see something explring the concept of Magitech.  Think Gnomes and sorcerous inventions

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I've said thoughts along these lines too (but I've also indicated I would be interested in where FFG might take a Timescape expansion)

 

Demon realms, Death realms (an expansion of the Grim Reaper?), Celestial realms.

 

 

  Howard the Duck realms? just kidding, but a realm that while not sci fi, has non-humanoid types, evolved animals, whatever?

 

Realms of all kinds of creature-y beings.

 

 

 

 Hey, didn't someone once speak about a realm with dinosaurs? This could be an expansion around the Hidden Valley because when you look at the tiny graphic on that space, there is a dinosaur.   Something like when you land on the space by and odd number, you draw the 3 cards from the Prehistoric deck, rather than the Adventure deck. Of course purists would want a special board for Jurassic, umm Talismanic-saur-land.

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