A Lesson in Hyper Redundancy. Fire/Good Hilde (2009 CA regionals second place)

[Archimedes2 0]

 This is the deck that I ran to a second place finish, beating 2 other Hilde in diversity to lose to Jon Herr in top 8.

DO NOT RUN THIS DECK. This deck is terrible and needs a complete overhaul. You can cherry pick some ideas from it, but if you copy this deck card for card you're going to die a horrible death to control decks. I've already scrapped this deck list and I'm now working on a new Hilde with a better match up against control decks.

Hilde x1

 

Seal of Cessation x3

Assassination Arts x2

Cage Arena x3

Olcadon’s Mentoring x4

 

Kung Fu Training x3

Lynx Tale x4

Cobra Blow x4

Pommel Smash x1

 

Tae Kwon Do Zephyr x4

Empire’s Ruin x4

Destiny x3

Healer x4

Amy’s Assistance x4

Red Lotus x4

Manifest Destiny x4

Blinding Rage x4

Bitter Rivals x4

Makai High Noble x2

 

Sideboard

Pommel Smash x2

Holding Ground x3

Seal of Cessation x1

Arrogant and Insolent x2

 

Looking at the deck, you can see what I mean by redundancy. Going over it, here's what I am going to change right away.

1) Blinding Rage/Makai High Noble/Red Lotus is too much. I've got the Rage and upped the Makai High to 4. The only reason I didn't do it like this at the tournament is because I had to give my actual set of Makai Highs to a different deck.

2) Destiny goes to the sideboard, it was useless in all but two matches. Holding Ground goes to the mainboard.

3) Assassination Arts goes to the sideboard, Pommel Smash goes to the Main. Assassination Arts was useful in the mirror, but Cage Arena covered me everywhere else.

4) Tae Kwon Do Zephyr was useless, it is cut. Empire's Ruin is questionable but using it as a block to Manifest down Seong Mina (like I did in two different matches) is an incredible move.

5) Needs more protection, so I don't have to dance so hard against the control decks. Tri-symbol ahoooooy.

6) Arrogant and Insolent was useless. Seal goes to the mainboard.

[HolyDragonCloud 0]

Arch, can i recommend Stand Off for this deck?  I know it doesn't have good on it, but it will certainly provide you with both a great offensive and defensive tool, as well as creating a lot more decisions for your opponent to make.  And the mind game is always a good thing to mess around with.

[Archimedes2 0]

 I tested Stand Off and it was completely unnecessary.

It was also far too foundation hungry.

[MegaGeese 0]

I see what you mean already.

I've been fiddling with her a little myself. Still haven't figured out whether to focus on a single symbol or go multi. I really like the idea of Fire having Experienced Combatant, or playing Mysterious Stance with the Path of the Master asset.

 

What sort of problems is it that you were having with control?

[Archimedes2 0]

In my matches against Smazzurco I learned two things.

1) Control can drop a lot of pieces that just say "F U" and they get to sit on the board.

2) Control can ALSO hold a lot of pieces in their hand that just say "F U".

In my matches against Smazz I had to dance around the Rejections and Tag Alongs in his hand, while also trying to deal with multiple Seals, Chester's Backings, BRT's, Lotus, and Revenant's Calling on his board.

With my current build I have a really hard time doing a proper dance around hardcore control decks. My new tri-symbol build is shaping up to have a much better time. Not only does it open up more options, I also get to hit more things with Manifest Destiny.

[MegaGeese 0]

Ah, so tapdown and the like, then.

So far, all I've figured out for my build is iSpin, Lynx Tail, and Pommel Smash. How well did Cobra Blow work your you? I notice no Dual Wielding to really abuse it (good choice, imo), but I'm curious, all the same.

[Archimedes2 0]

 Cobra Blow is ridiculous.

Lynx Tale -4, Cage Arena -7, Hilde -1. Hilde Double to put Lynx at 30low23

The opponent can Reject it.

You Cobra Blow it, and every single 7 HS'er in the game dies.

If they don't Reject it, Cobra Blow allows you to one shot every single character in the game given no interference.

 

[MarcoPulleaux 0]

Is there absolutely no way you can beat control with just Fire/Good? (is refering to your tri-symbol reference)

Or perhaps add in more of Good's control mechanisms?

[guitalex2008 0]

My deck is mostly Fire/Good, with the only Fire only card being 3 Cobra Blows.

Have you considered ShadoWar?  -2 more damage is nice, but what's also nice is the control check boost it gives you if THIS attack deals damage, so it helps with blocking.

I think Good is a better way to go with Hilde becuse there's a lot more anti-control in Good.  Like More Machine than Woman, which is targetted foundation committal with the illusion of simple damage reduction.  Also, you'd be surprised how much of Good's good support already has Fire or Order.  And while Red Lotus/Makai/Blinding is all well and good for destruction, just Red Lotus to distract Olcadan's and Torn Hero to prevent stuns (or targetted committal) is always nice.

Arrogant and Insolent may seem to be useless, but considering Mentally Unstable can grab that Lynx Tail and possible Dual Wielding again (since it will most likely deal at least 1 damage if Rejected) to do it again, and Lynx Tail or Dual Wielding's E will create the trigger for Arrogant and Insolent, you'd be surprised how well it works.  If anything, reduce the amount.

Still a fan of trying to do the turn 1 kill with her... it's unlikely enough to draw the pieces as it is, then make the checks but hey.

[LordAggro 0]

Awesome call on the Tae Kwon Do Zephyr.  Now I have to get my hands on 'em...

Stand Off has worked great for my Hilde deck (which is pure Fire); YMMV, though, as you said it was too foundation-hungry.

If control is giving you the blues, I recommend Experienced Combatant.  I have been able to use both to great effect against control decks.

Also, Mysterious Stance gives out free full blocks.  You have a lot of Assets, but I think it's worth a look.

[Archimedes2 0]

MarcoPulleaux said:

Is there absolutely no way you can beat control with just Fire/Good? (is refering to your tri-symbol reference)

Or perhaps add in more of Good's control mechanisms?

I took a game on Smazzurco in the finals, and game 3 would have been mine if I hadn't royally F'd up.

But it's a Reeeaaaaalllllyyyyyyy hard match up for Hilde.

[Wafflecopter2 0]

Archimedes said:

MarcoPulleaux said:

 

Is there absolutely no way you can beat control with just Fire/Good? (is refering to your tri-symbol reference)

Or perhaps add in more of Good's control mechanisms?

 

 

I took a game on Smazzurco in the finals, and game 3 would have been mine if I hadn't royally F'd up.

But it's a Reeeaaaaalllllyyyyyyy hard match up for Hilde.

I'm definitely interested in the details, if you have any more . If you had close to two games out of a series of 3, what makes it a hard matchup?

[Archimedes2 0]

Wafflecopter said:

Archimedes said:

 

MarcoPulleaux said:

 

Is there absolutely no way you can beat control with just Fire/Good? (is refering to your tri-symbol reference)

Or perhaps add in more of Good's control mechanisms?

 

 

I took a game on Smazzurco in the finals, and game 3 would have been mine if I hadn't royally F'd up.

But it's a Reeeaaaaalllllyyyyyyy hard match up for Hilde.

 

I'm definitely interested in the details, if you have any more . If you had close to two games out of a series of 3, what makes it a hard matchup?

 

I'm working on a tournament report as we speak, but I can sum the control match up with Hilde down to this.

If you can't find an opening right away, prepare for a long and grueling game. Control's late game is far and away better than yours, and unless you can match every Seal of Cessation, every Chester's Backing, and every BRT they put on the board, you're going to lose.

I lost game 1 because Smazz dumped 3 Chester's Backing and 3 Seal of Cessation onto the board, which was simply impossible to deal with.

 

[Archimedes2 0]

For all of you curious, here's my tri symbol Hilde deck

 

1 Hilde

 

3 Seal of Cessation (Infinity)

4 Owlface (Infinity)

3 Cage Arena (Good)

 

3 Kung Fu Training (Fire)

 

2 Pommel Smash (Fire/Order)

4 Lynx Tail (Fire/Good)

4 Cobra Blow (Fire/Order)

 

4 Healer (Fire/Good)

4 Blood Runs True (Good/Order)

4 Red Lotus (Good)

3 Experienced combatant (Fire/Order)

3 Holding Ground (Good/Order)

3 Makai High Noble (Fire/Order)

4 Amy’s Assistance (Fire/Good/Order)

3 Bitter Rivals (Fire)

4 Manifest Destiny (Fire)

3 Strength of Training (Fire/Good/Order)

3 Buddhist Devotion (Good/Order)

 

Sideboard

1 Pommel Smash 

1 Seal of Cessation

3 Destiny

2 Assassination Arts

1 Rikuo

 

 

[trane2 0]

BRT has good?

nice deck. it seems to have good synergy for a trisymbol deck. shadowwar and arogant and incolent could both help this deck.

[MarcoPulleaux 0]

Blood Runs True does not have Good. If it did...boy, I probably wouldn't complain about it as much as I do =D

Also, your deck STILL doesn't appear to have any answers to Chester's, apart from maybe BRT stopping it from entering the board.

Still, good stuff is good.

[Smazzurco 0]

MarcoPulleaux said:

Blood Runs True does not have Good. If it did...boy, I probably wouldn't complain about it as much as I do =D

Also, your deck STILL doesn't appear to have any answers to Chester's, apart from maybe BRT stopping it from entering the board.

Still, good stuff is good.

Exactly what he was saying. Only real defense to chesters is to have them chesters your healer, E with hilde, then cobra blow it up into the rediculous amounts of damage.  If you have a healer/twkdz on the board people may chesters your amy's, but even so you have lynx tails E, Cage Arena, Hilde -1.

 

Not as widespread but i would think no mems + seals would be a bigger hurdle than chesters + seals

[trane2 0]

Smazzurco said:

MarcoPulleaux said:

 

Blood Runs True does not have Good. If it did...boy, I probably wouldn't complain about it as much as I do =D

Also, your deck STILL doesn't appear to have any answers to Chester's, apart from maybe BRT stopping it from entering the board.

Still, good stuff is good.

 

 

Exactly what he was saying. Only real defense to chesters is to have them chesters your healer, E with hilde, then cobra blow it up into the rediculous amounts of damage.  If you have a healer/twkdz on the board people may chesters your amy's, but even so you have lynx tails E, Cage Arena, Hilde -1.

 

Not as widespread but i would think no mems + seals would be a bigger hurdle than chesters + seals

no memories or seal are more of a pain because they negate your char.

[Smazzurco 0]

trane said:

Smazzurco said:

 

MarcoPulleaux said:

 

Blood Runs True does not have Good. If it did...boy, I probably wouldn't complain about it as much as I do =D

Also, your deck STILL doesn't appear to have any answers to Chester's, apart from maybe BRT stopping it from entering the board.

Still, good stuff is good.

 

 

Exactly what he was saying. Only real defense to chesters is to have them chesters your healer, E with hilde, then cobra blow it up into the rediculous amounts of damage.  If you have a healer/twkdz on the board people may chesters your amy's, but even so you have lynx tails E, Cage Arena, Hilde -1.

 

Not as widespread but i would think no mems + seals would be a bigger hurdle than chesters + seals

 

 

no memories or seal are more of a pain because they negate your char.

 

I know...thats why i said no mems would be more of a pain than chesters. No mems can stop anything. You can even save it, use a tag along on hilde, then keep that no mems free incase they cobra blow.

 

I was saying not as many people are rocking no mems symbols, but if i was running hilde i would cringe way more at a first turn no mems, no mems way more than a chesters, chesters.

 

[Archimedes2 0]

 No Memories is also an issue.

But then again, when I faced Andres and his Zi Mei deck, he put all 4 of his No Memories into play by turn 2 and I really had no problem dancing around them.

I just use Chester's Backing as as a bit of symbolic Anathema.

And yes, BRT doesn't have good, that is a mistake on my part.

Also, if you fail to see how this deck doesn't have more answers to Chester's Backing, allow me to explain: There is more threatening bait that it has to cancel.