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oriondean

thinking about F&D beta.

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There is some information to back up the contention that the force is involved in making a lightsaber though. In the TCW episode "The Gathering" the padawans have to harvest their crystal. Yoda describes it as the heart of the saber, and that it focuses the force from the Jedi.

 

In "A Test Of Strength" the wookiee concentrates to receive the image of his saber. The droid gives them advice on how to focus their thoughts, based on his experience of working with hundreds of other Jedi, but their designs come 'from within'.

 

Later they follow some basic schematics, but Ahsoka tells them to trust in the force for the design to become clear.

 

Yes the droid assembles a saber, but it only seems to be the shell, and it's not shown working.

 

So knasserll and progressions are both right. There are mystical aspects, there are mechanical aspects, therefore pick which you want to run with in your galaxy and make it so. (Oops - crossing the streams there).

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So what do you guys/ladies think about Bind being used like Vader did in Empire? As in, Force Grip from a distance. Would this just be two Star Destroyers at "Close" range and Darth having max Range in it, or is the system lacking a tele-death for balance purposes? 

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I'm under the impression the crystal will literally not work unless it's been attuned. It's a technological weapon with a magical element.

Although "you're free to so what you feel is right" can be considered condescending, it is accurate, and a core philosophy with this system/type of game

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So what do you guys/ladies think about Bind being used like Vader did in Empire? As in, Force Grip from a distance. Would this just be two Star Destroyers at "Close" range and Darth having max Range in it, or is the system lacking a tele-death for balance purposes?

I think they were on the same ship actually. Could be wrong. But yeah, I think it's just a narrative thing and not really supported. Maybe a creative use of Bind and Seek? I'm away from book right now. In TCW Sidious does a similar thing over a much greater distance. Gives me the impression that line-of-sight is important, but the system doesn't really cover that.

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"You must do what you feel is right, of course" --Obi-Wan Kenobi, master of the passive-aggressive side of the Force.

 

Really, I'm just trying to communicate to people that I'm not trying to convince them or come to a consensus about what is the "right" way to approach this subject. Like I said before, in my opinion it's far past the point of anyone convincing anybody of anything.

 

Just play it however you think it should work. I have my opinion about it and you are welcome to yours.

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When someone says "if that's what you feel is right" it sounds very different to "you are right". In fact, people only use the extra words in order to suggest that you're wrong, but that it's okay, you're free to be wrong.

What I wrote makes sense, is supported and points out actual problems with viewing lightsabres as "magic" or that only a jedi can make one. You can of course ignore those problems if that's what you feel you'd like to do, but they remain.

 

 

I disagree that this is the "only" reason why people would use those extra words.

 

I'm just trying to say you can do it however you want to but I have my own way of doing it, and we might have different approaches to it.

 

What you consider "problems" that "remain" with my approach are "problems" I'm more than happy to deal with however I need to, if it should ever come up in one of my games that somebody wanted to build a lightsaber. I'm not too worried about it.

 

I just get the feeling you're trying to convince ME that it's wrong to consider a lightsaber a magical weapon, when in my opinion there's nothing more basic or self-evident in the whole business of Star Wars. The Force is magic. Lightsabers are magic.

 

Like others on here have said, they have a technological element to them, but I believe the nature of Star Wars is such that the lightsaber takes the place of the magical sword in a lot of fantasy fiction, and so there would be a magical (or Force-based) aspect to making them.

 

That makes sense to me, and if I ever need to address the subject of lightsaber creation in my game, that's the approach I'll probably take.

 

You can do it however you want to do it, there is no wrong decision that you can make at your table based on the way you want to play your game. I'm not trying to be condescending, this just seems to me like the most simple truth, stated as plainly as I can say it.

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Could someone please telle me the stats of the Shoto Lightsaber? 

 

And there are some new Weapon Modifications included? wow, I have to get this book :-)

 

Damage 4, Crit 2, Accurate 1, Breach 1, Sunder. 

 

Lots of weapon mods available for sabers. :)

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Just reposting this for those who haven't seen it yet:

 

Russano_Greenstripe on the Reddit thread someone linked to has in turn shared a link to a pdf with photos of pages from the F&D Beta! It's 68 pages, and includes shots of the stuff on Morality, each career and all of their specializations, weapon descriptions, descriptions for all of the lightsaber upgrades, a little of the armor and new equipment stuff, starships, and Force powers! Some of the shots (particularly of the specialization trees) are somewhat unreadable, but I was still able to get a good sense of what each tree is doing.

 

http://www.mediafire.com/download/8p04kp35v59290x/Force+and+Destiny+r.pdf

 

WOW! :o :o :o

 

I seem to recall that in the EotE beta there were some Force power upgrades that were determined by the user's characteristics (something like Influence affecting an additional number of targets, via a Magnitude upgrade, equal to Willpower, I think). See a lot of stuff like that here, and wonder if it will be held over when this moves from beta to the final release.

 

I think some of the powers will get tweaked downward with the completed version, and I think Donovan's idea for Heal, in having it restore Strain as the basic power, and require an upgrade to restore Wounds makes more sense than the reverse we have here. Harm also seems like it starts out a bit strong, and the text on the Mastery upgrade indicating that it's Force Lightning at that point seems underwhelming. I mean, yeah, criticals are going to be pretty dangerous, but the power can do everything else that Force Lightning does up to that point, so Mastery just seems like it's moving to a much more powerful FL.

 

I like the Healing Trance talent!

 

The lightsaber forms talent trees are pretty cool!

 

I'm a little disappointed that I didn't see Intense Focus in any of the trees.

 

I think there's perhaps too much "add X defense" to be found scattered around, although I suppose that's to be expected of a book building Jedi.

 

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Thanks.

 

And yeah, I´ve seen it, but there are some things missing. And I think it will take at least one month till the book arrives in germany (the I´ll buy it, as I done with all the other sw-books). 

 

How many mod points has the shoto?

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Thanks.

 

And yeah, I´ve seen it, but there are some things missing. And I think it will take at least one month till the book arrives in germany (the I´ll buy it, as I done with all the other sw-books). 

 

How many mod points has the shoto?

3

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WRT lightsaber mods, I'm growing fond of the idea of Mechanics for the electro-mechanical parts and Discipline for the crystal.

That's not a bad idea, and is in fact pretty close to a notion I pitched to Sam during one of our brief discussions at GenCon.  He seemed to think it was a good idea, particularly in regards to the EU lore noting that Jedi often meditated to "attune" the crystals, which in this system could be construed as the modifications making the weapon more "in tune" with both the Force and the user.

 

Another point of interest was that he was under the impression that the difficulty to modify an attachment was different than what was in the books.  Had a bit of fun in the FFG room with the two of us scrambling to check copies of EotE, AoR, and FaD Beta to see what difficulty was listed.  Whether that will lead to future errata or not is anyone's guess, even if he is the lead developer for the product line in the wake of Jay Little leaving FFG for health reasons.

Edited by Donovan Morningfire

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Just skimming through this thread since I'd last checked it prior to heading out to GenCon, and seeing a number of posts that validate my earlier intent to steer clear of the F&D Beta forums once they go up.  Did note that ErikB/Slypheed has allegedly taken a hike to other pastures, which is pretty good news I guess.

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Even though a lot of us are, "arguing"?  I guess you could call it that.  Even though we're arguing, I totally get the impression that most people think this book is the bees knees.  I don't see a lot of people completly butt blasted that it's not the way they had envisioned it being.  Which is awesome.

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I'm sure hell be back eventually, but at least for now he seems to have backed off. Once the book becomes more readily available Ill bet hell be back to poo poo this and that.

Well, he's certainly enough of a scumbag low-life that he'd be sure to grab the PDF of the Beta that some jackass put out on the web.*  Granted, I've not seen said PDF (nor am I likely to ever do so) as I've got the actual physical book (with actual signatures from several folks that worked on the book even), so no clue how much of what it has is accurate or not.

 

*I can only guess that the moderators are too busy recovering from GenCon, as I'd imagine direct links to places where said PDF can be grabbed would be a high-priority of posts to be censored/deleted and warnings/violations to be handed out.  I get the feeling that if someone were to try this same stunt with the PHB on the WotC forums, there'd be a faster and likely harsher response.  Not (deliberately) trying to armchair quarterback, but seems odd that there's been a lack of response on this particular matter, particularly with how protective Disney and Lucasfilm can be with their products.

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I'm sure hell be back eventually, but at least for now he seems to have backed off. Once the book becomes more readily available Ill bet hell be back to poo poo this and that.

Well, he's certainly enough of a scumbag low-life that he'd be sure to grab the PDF of the Beta that some jackass put out on the web.*  Granted, I've not seen said PDF (nor am I likely to ever do so) as I've got the actual physical book (with actual signatures from several folks that worked on the book even), so no clue how much of what it has is accurate or not.

 

*I can only guess that the moderators are too busy recovering from GenCon, as I'd imagine direct links to places where said PDF can be grabbed would be a high-priority of posts to be censored/deleted and warnings/violations to be handed out.  I get the feeling that if someone were to try this same stunt with the PHB on the WotC forums, there'd be a faster and likely harsher response.  Not (deliberately) trying to armchair quarterback, but seems odd that there's been a lack of response on this particular matter, particularly with how protective Disney and Lucasfilm can be with their products.

 

There's a PDF floating around that was apparently provided directly from FFG to someone.  Probably the final version of the Alpha.  It's pretty great.*  I'll agree odd it isn't getting policed, but probably like you said, they're busy with more important things.

 

 

*100% buying the beta when it comes online.  Physical books beat out PDFs any day of the week in my book.

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My stance on such things are that so long as you've shelled out the money for the physical copy, owning/obtaining a PDF copy is perfectly fine - since you've paid for the 'use' of the book and its contents. I extend this to PDF copies of something that one *will* be buying when available. I've no qualms about the prior links in this thread to the PDF of pictures of the unique sections since I know I'll be buying it, as will - I suspect - most of us in this thread (who haven't already, natch).

 

To an extent I think it's the same basic deal with the talent trees/ character creators out there being available and freely linked. Nobody is charging for access to them - nor profiting from them - and the folks who will get the most use out of it, are those who've paid for a physical copy.

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I agree, I own 2 of the three books (F&D beta soon, I hope), and I also have PDF's of the books.  My books don't leave my game room, and I write my material for the game on my computer upstairs.  It's convenient to have it on my computer while I write for quick reference, and not thumbing through pages, and wearing out my books more than they get at the gaming table.

Edited by Danudet

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WRT lightsaber mods, I'm growing fond of the idea of Mechanics for the electro-mechanical parts and Discipline for the crystal.

That's not a bad idea, and is in fact pretty close to a notion I pitched to Sam during one of our brief discussions at GenCon.  He seemed to think it was a good idea, particularly in regards to the EU lore noting that Jedi often meditated to "attune" the crystals, which in this system could be construed as the modifications making the weapon more "in tune" with both the Force and the user.

 

Another point of interest was that he was under the impression that the difficulty to modify an attachment was different than what was in the books.  Had a bit of fun in the FFG room with the two of us scrambling to check copies of EotE, AoR, and FaD Beta to see what difficulty was listed.  Whether that will lead to future errata or not is anyone's guess, even if he is the lead developer for the product line in the wake of Jay Little leaving FFG for health reasons.

 

What i was thinking is Discipline for the roll and a player write down the crystal mods they want from first to last and role a force check.

exp.

Ilum crystal 

1.+1 dam

2.-1 crit

3.+1 dam

4.Vicious +1

5.Vicious +1

etc

then roll force and spend one pip for each upgrade

(maybe must have basic move but not set on that right now)

not sure if it should be one pip or if certain ones should cost more

Edited by tenchi2a

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I've reread it a few times now, but for Force Power Heal, can this be used on your self, or is it only for healing comrades?

Obviously you probably couldn't use it to resuscitate your self, but in terms of just healing wounds and critical injuries, I would have thought yes. However, the written text doesn't support this. Or did I miss something?

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My stance on such things are that so long as you've shelled out the money for the physical copy, owning/obtaining a PDF copy is perfectly fine - since you've paid for the 'use' of the book and its contents. I extend this to PDF copies of something that one *will* be buying when available. I've no qualms about the prior links in this thread to the PDF of pictures of the unique sections since I know I'll be buying it, as will - I suspect - most of us in this thread (who haven't already, natch).

 

To an extent I think it's the same basic deal with the talent trees/ character creators out there being available and freely linked. Nobody is charging for access to them - nor profiting from them - and the folks who will get the most use out of it, are those who've paid for a physical copy.

I actually prefer PDFs for a lot of my gaming material. I buy hardback for things I'll want to pass around the table and PDF for anything that's just for my own usage. They're more portable, more searchable. I can even mark them up without damaging them if I want. It's my preferred format. Therefore for me the argument that a paper copy entitles me to a digital copy doesn't quite work - they're both valuable things. I quite liked the way Shadowrun 4th edition books were often sold by Catalyst where you bought both as a bundle for a very slight mark-up over just the hard copy. (Didn't like much else about the company, mind you). Electronic format can be updated too - buying through DriveThruRPG I get a pleasant email saying a product I've bought has been updated with errata and is available for re-download. Excellent stuff. :)

Having been able to see the F&D beta that was circulated has ensured that I will buy it. But I would almost certainly have reached the same decision just from reading people comments and answers here, that said. Things like that wonderful character generator that is floating around and summary sheets are a positive that makes the game more valuable to me and thus more likely to invest in it. But it is a balance, imo. If it reaches the point that you no longer need the products, that will result in lost sales. I know plenty of people who used to buy what books they could but these days just torrent and spend their money elsewhere because they can. In effect, these people are living off us who do buy the products. And it's much like any other situation where some are freeloading on others, it's frustrating and unfair.

It's really up to the company to decide where that balance lies, imo. They're the only ones who know (or can make reasonable guesses) as to where things like people's own summary sheets and talent charts move from being helpful fan things to harmful infringement. I think talent trees and such are a net positive, but I do know that in some cases people use them instead of getting the book. I think scans of a book are too much. On the rare occasions I will download one, it's because I've pretty much made up my mind that I will get it when it's available. Or, like yourself, I already have the printed copy and a digital version is not available to buy.

People make their own judgement calls. Like in the above, I will pay for the PDF version. If someone had already paid $40 for the hardcopy and you can't get digital copies (or it's the same price and there's no discount for getting both together) then they probably feel it's reasonable to grab a digital copy. Someone who is genuinely broke (not "I spent $75 on pizzas last week and I already bought this other book so I can't afford to buy the second one" broke) can probably genuinely say to themselves that there's no way it's a lost sale. Especially if they later make good on it when they do have money. Someone who is really unsure about if they want a product or not, or which product they want, and can't afford to risk throwing away $40, they probably feel comfortable in getting copies for an advance look. If they find they're still using that copy two months later they should probably admit that they should pay for it, though!

I think digital copies of a paid beta are probably more harmful in some ways. A paid beta helps generate the money needed to make the finished product. Also the interest in a beta is in part wanting to see what is coming and get some advance playing in. A pirated beta is in some ways more harmful than the final product because it's kicking the project during the pregnancy. And because the value of the beta can be met by a downloaded copy in ways that the final product can't be. I.e. a downloaded copy wont match the final, hardback, artwork filled, hold in your hands full game. But it will match the crunch only sparse thing that is a beta. Ergo, it's more likely to hit sales.

What I'm saying is that I think most of us know with this stuff if we're living off others / harming the game, or if we're not. I like to follow the company's lead. If they're happy with talent sheets and a character generator floating around, I'll be using those. If I got the impression the company were trying to fight them, I'd probably avoid. (Though that would be a big sacrifice with the character generator!). I think the copy of the beta is almost certainly harming sales of the beta. Though as a partial counter-argument, it has revealed to all of us that F&D is awesome and may increase sales of the final product.

I'm also a little uneasy with torrents rather than straight downloads because regardless of what reasons I may or may not have for downloading a copy, with a torrent what I'm doing is helping a whole feeding frenzy of people downloading to exist.

I would basically hope, anyway, that regardless of individual positions on this, we all agree that FFG are putting out some fantastic work right now, and that they deserve to be rewarded for that. None of us want to see this game harmed or fewer supplements.

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