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oriondean

thinking about F&D beta.

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How can anyone expect, or even want, a CRB about the Force in Star Wars as it relates to characters to not be about and centered around Force using Careers?  I don't get it................ :huh:

Some people are incredibly resentful of how much airtime Jedi get in Star Wars, and not without reason. But I really think they will be better off just banning any and all F&D material from their AoR or EotE games, rather than hoping and agitating that F&D complies with their tastes.

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How can anyone expect, or even want, a CRB about the Force in Star Wars as it relates to characters to not be about and centered around Force using Careers?  I don't get it................ :huh:

Some people are incredibly resentful of how much airtime Jedi get in Star Wars, and not without reason. But I really think they will be better off just banning any and all F&D material from their AoR or EotE games, rather than hoping and agitating that F&D complies with their tastes.

 

Like I said, I don't get it.  There isn't Star Wars without Jedi.  There are all kinds of scifi universes with people running around with ray guns.  Jedi make Star Wars, Star Wars.  

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How can anyone expect, or even want, a CRB about the Force in Star Wars as it relates to characters to not be about and centered around Force using Careers?  I don't get it................ :huh:

Some people are incredibly resentful of how much airtime Jedi get in Star Wars, and not without reason. But I really think they will be better off just banning any and all F&D material from their AoR or EotE games, rather than hoping and agitating that F&D complies with their tastes.

 

Resentment has nothing to do with it. Some want a more generic Force system allowing them to design their Force characters whether they be Jedi or Force Witches or whatever. Some suggested an entire Force system using Unispecs. While I can respect such a position, I don't think that is the direction FFG will go. That would leave Force use always as a tacked on addition to other careers. Personally I think it has the potential for more than that, thus the need for Force career(s).

 

Whatever system they go with, I think most people want something that is balanced with the other books rather than something that has the Force-users make other character types feel like secondary characters.

Edited by mouthymerc

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Like I said, I don't get it.  There isn't Star Wars without Jedi.  There are all kinds of scifi universes with people running around with ray guns.  Jedi make Star Wars, Star Wars.  

 

It's just Jedi-fatigue. There's no denying that Jedi aren't a key part of the stories/lore in Star Wars, but making Jedi the sole focus of most mainstream Star Wars media can definitely get tiring when there's large areas to be explored that can help Star Wars stand on its own feet without having to have lightsabers everywhere. So people who are especially sick of Jedi being everywhere, all the time, pretty much take it to the extreme and don't want any Jedi at all. 

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Like I said, I don't get it.  There isn't Star Wars without Jedi.  There are all kinds of scifi universes with people running around with ray guns.  Jedi make Star Wars, Star Wars.  

 

It's just Jedi-fatigue. There's no denying that Jedi aren't a key part of the stories/lore in Star Wars, but making Jedi the sole focus of most mainstream Star Wars media can definitely get tiring when there's large areas to be explored that can help Star Wars stand on its own feet without having to have lightsabers everywhere. So people who are especially sick of Jedi being everywhere, all the time, pretty much take it to the extreme and don't want any Jedi at all. 

 

"Extreme".  So what you are saying is there are kooks.  I get that.

Edited by 2P51

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I've said this before. I want characters that are Jedi from the start. I want this as much as characters that start as something untelated to the force and discover it, or belong to other force traditions (including player created ones).

I've argued for 'generic' career/specialties with an overarching dury/obligation mechanic (commitment), because I feel that would be the best way to represent all three of these ideas.

When I say generic, I don't mean dull, I mean lacking any nomenclature specific to any one force tradition, example guardian, consular from the wotc/kotor Jedi. This also allows some specialties to be reused. Pilot is the best example.

The commitment mechanic, as i started long ago, shows how attuned to a force tradition you are. I'll use Jedi as an example. It would provide benefits such as force rating, lightsaber as a career skill and even an actual lightsaber.

So a new player who wants to make a Jedi selects his starting career/specialty that best represents the type of Jedi. Maybe he takes marauder, pilot or diplomat. Doesn't mstter, because for his group size he starts with 15 commitment. 10 commitment increases his force rating by 1. For another 5, he can get lightsaber as a career skill. For a further 10, he can start with a lightsaber. The player spends 15 xp to get these. He then buys a couple ranks of lightsaber and some force powers.

Now if another player doesnt want any force use right away, they can trade their starting commitment in for more xp.

Now, that is what I would like to see. If force and destiny has Jedi careers and specialties, I will probsbly not purchase more than the beta. That is my choice. If you enjoy the book, well good on you. I feel that a refined version of the above is the BEST way to represent the Jedi, Sith, dathomiri and characters that start as one of these, to those that had no inkling they had it in them. All these things are represented in the movies/television shows (that disney has deemed canon) as well as the Legends EU. All of them are necessary, and all of them are viable options. If force and destiny doesn't do this, it is a failed product in my eyes.

A couple of other points: as noted, the commitment mechanic increases force rating.

This means that universal specs still have merit, as I feel they will be included as a way to define your characters approach to the force. Exile is trying to hide and be subtle. Emergant is overt and unrefined. Why couldn't the universal specs be how a character buys into being force sensitive? Perhaps a Jedi universal specialty is all that is needed. But I expect to see a force sensitive Erudite show up.

Now for those who say: without my Jedi career I can't get my career splatbook with different lightsaber crystals and all the different forms.. well yes, you can. It won't be a career book, but a book more like Suns of Fortune for Edge of the Empire.

Edited by That Blasted Samophlange

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So... won't that mean they'll include how force users wrap the force around say staves and use them instead of lightsabers?

 

In an era where anyone armed with a lightsaber is either a Sith Inquisitor or soon to be shot to pieces suspected Force User... wouldn't mind something expanding on the lightsaber combat forms but as for Force Careers can't help wondering if they'd be more Force Tradition based rather than careers like the other books since that could be resolved by having one of the universal force specialities...

 

Still be worth checking up on, one of the problems that put me off is previously hearing about Star Wars games where they were Sith this or Sith that let alone messing about with the Darkside with no discernible effect... now that is one area I'd like to see clarified.

 

Back when Attack of the Clones was released I went to Dragonmeet and was the only person who wanted to play a Clone Trooper in a Star Wars game there. Found out about the revised edition (d not saying the rest but before Saga) and bought a copy after they told me about it.

The person running that game used star wars toys, he must have had 6-8 jedi type and around the same clone troopers... needless to say he ran out of the Jedi and I don't think I stayed through to the end although I was stopped from using wide angled stuns! :)

 

Now FFG is almost ready to announce their Force & Destiny Beta in maybe a month and I look at this thread where everyone is discussing their thoughts and I'm left wondering... how will they fill up a book about the Force when there was only 2 actively known Jedi and 2 Sith (unless you count Starkiller, Kotu or whatever his name is and whether a Padawan managed to squeeze through the gaps (other than Kanan... I wonder if they'll mention him?)...).

 

Ventriss would be a good option, anyone with the AoR core rules know if they mention anything about the Rebellion's efforts to recruit Force Users ala the Emergent?

 

And will it mention Ahsota?

Edited by copperbell

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Back when Attack of the Clones was released I went to Dragonmeet and was the only person who wanted to play a Clone Trooper in a Star Wars game there.

Like I say, I really don't think you will or should be the target audience for F&D, so it will be better for everyone if you try to pretend it doesn't exist.

Edited by Sylpheed

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Back when Attack of the Clones was released I went to Dragonmeet and was the only person who wanted to play a Clone Trooper in a Star Wars game there.

Like I say, I really don't think you will or should be the target audience for F&D, so it will be better for everyone if you try to pretend it doesn't exist.

 

That's a bit harsh.

 

Since it's going to be compatible with AoR (which only needs a doodie adjustment to be generic military rulebook) when FaD lands it's totally probable that with just some statting out of missing NPCs and gear you could runa  clone wars campaign, with FaD providing the Anakins, Obi-wans, and Ahsokas, AoR providing the Codys and Rex..es, and EotE providing the Amidalas and...Jar-Jars...

 

Besides, just because it's being labeled "The Jedi Rulebook" by us in advance doesn't mean FFG thought it should be when they actaulyl sat down to write it. For all we know there's plenty of stuff for non-jedi to do in there.

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So... won't that mean they'll include how force users wrap the force around say staves and use them instead of lightsabers?

 

In an era where anyone armed with a lightsaber is either a Sith Inquisitor or soon to be shot to pieces suspected Force User... wouldn't mind something expanding on the lightsaber combat forms but as for Force Careers can't help wondering if they'd be more Force Tradition based rather than careers like the other books since that could be resolved by having one of the universal force specialities...

 

Still be worth checking up on, one of the problems that put me off is previously hearing about Star Wars games where they were Sith this or Sith that let alone messing about with the Darkside with no discernible effect... now that is one area I'd like to see clarified.

 

Back when Attack of the Clones was released I went to Dragonmeet and was the only person who wanted to play a Clone Trooper in a Star Wars game there. Found out about the revised edition (d not saying the rest but before Saga) and bought a copy after they told me about it.

The person running that game used star wars toys, he must have had 6-8 jedi type and around the same clone troopers... needless to say he ran out of the Jedi and I don't think I stayed through to the end although I was stopped from using wide angled stuns! :)

 

Now FFG is almost ready to announce their Force & Destiny Beta in maybe a month and I look at this thread where everyone is discussing their thoughts and I'm left wondering... how will they fill up a book about the Force when there was only 2 actively known Jedi and 2 Sith (unless you count Starkiller, Kotu or whatever his name is and whether a Padawan managed to squeeze through the gaps (other than Kanan... I wonder if they'll mention him?)...).

 

Ventriss would be a good option, anyone with the AoR core rules know if they mention anything about the Rebellion's efforts to recruit Force Users ala the Emergent?

 

And will it mention Ahsota?

 

There were a number of lesser force traditions that didn't have nearly the numbers of the jedi, the Baron do were almost wiped out simply because the jedi kept recruiting force sensitive kel dor, the matukai were mostly only barely force sensitive and jedi passed on them for training, zenshan sha were descended from jedi that were stranded in the middle of no where and distrusted the real jedi. They're all EU so not sure they can be included but they exist and did during the civil war.

 

Not to mention any jedi that went to ground like obi-wan and didn't get involved in the war proper. remember AoR is the civil war book, Force and Destiny could very well be behind the scenes shadow war with the inquisition and emperor's hands type deal.

Edited by Vonpenguin

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That's a bit harsh.

 

I reckon there is going to have to be a lot of discussion in F&D about precedents and justifications for having lightsaber wielders other than Luke and Vader running around in the rebellion era, so like I say, if the very concept of that offends you it will be better for everyone if you stick your fingers in your ears and say La La La I Can't Hear You every time F&D come up.

 

I mean, surely it is going to have stuff on, say, The Emperors Shadow Guard:-

 

shadow-guard-44.jpg

 

Cortosis Staff Weilding Imperial Senate Guards:-

 

Imperial_senate_guard.jpg

 

Inquisitors:-

 

Tremayne.JPG

 

653px-Inquisitor_Mask_Hasbro_Figure.jpg

 

Jerec_NEGTC.jpg

 

Secret Sith Appretices

 

Soul-Calibur-IV-Game-Character-Official-

 

Emperors Hands

 

564px-CroppedChoicesOfOne-PreliminaryFro

 

etc. etc.

 

so if you hate that stuff on principle, what exactly do you expect to get out of F&D?

Edited by Sylpheed

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Like I said, I don't get it.  There isn't Star Wars without Jedi.  There are all kinds of scifi universes with people running around with ray guns.  Jedi make Star Wars, Star Wars.  

 

It's just Jedi-fatigue. There's no denying that Jedi aren't a key part of the stories/lore in Star Wars, but making Jedi the sole focus of most mainstream Star Wars media can definitely get tiring when there's large areas to be explored that can help Star Wars stand on its own feet without having to have lightsabers everywhere. So people who are especially sick of Jedi being everywhere, all the time, pretty much take it to the extreme and don't want any Jedi at all. 

 

 

That's why it's great that they break it out in its own book, rather than having it spread between the other games. If you have Jedi-fatigue, don't buy the book. If you have Jedi-madness then buying the book will make your year. 

 

 

... and it will be black. ;)

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Now FFG is almost ready to announce their Force & Destiny Beta in maybe a month and I look at this thread where everyone is discussing their thoughts and I'm left wondering... how will they fill up a book about the Force when there was only 2 actively known Jedi and 2 Sith (unless you count Starkiller, Kotu or whatever his name is and whether a Padawan managed to squeeze through the gaps (other than Kanan... I wonder if they'll mention him?)...).

 

Ventriss would be a good option, anyone with the AoR core rules know if they mention anything about the Rebellion's efforts to recruit Force Users ala the Emergent?

 

And will it mention Ahsota?

Again I ask, what does any of this matter to anyone's game or what will be presented in F&D? What does it matter that in the movies they were the only ones? Especially when canon gets changed regularly, as is the case in the EU before it became legends and in the current canon with Kanan being around when there "aren't supposed to be any Jedi". How many more times is canon going to be adjusted in the future? Why hold so tight to such things?

 

How will they fill up a book? They will give you the tools to play Force-users of many stripes because that is what people want, albeit aimed more at the light side of things as I think they will leave dark side stuff to a later supplement, much like an Empire supplement. They want to play Jedi, Nightsisters, Imperial Knights, and on and on. What does canon have to do with the game which regularly breaks canon as a matter of course. The movies are only a reference point, not the be all and end all.

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I assume that F&D will cover non-Jedi things as well, since AoR covered non-Rebellion stuff and EotE specifically mentioned non-criminal elements. However, I'm guessing the book will be mostly concerned with the subject of the Force and most (if not all) of the Careers will be Force-sensitive. I think we can assume that more Talents will be introduced that are specifically Force-based, and it's possible the Lightsaber skill will require a Force Rating of at least 1 in order to take ranks in it.

 

If there are specific styles of lightsaber combat, my guess is they will revolve around what characteristic you use to dictate your Lightsaber skill, whether it's Agility or Brawn.

 

Also, I'll say what we're all thinking and predict that the Kel-Dor and Zabrak will be player species in F&D.

Edited by CaptainRaspberry

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Most likely the lightsaber skill will not require a force rating to use it, in general, but will require one if you are going to do anything more that swing it proficiently. I think General Grevious is a good example of it.

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Personally, I feel that The Force makes Star Wars what it is, not necessarily the Jedi. 

 

Particularly the over-powered Mary Sue's they have become over the last 20 years.

 

I'm hoping F&D will give us plenty of options. And I hope they are as balanced as they can be, that your Han Solos and Boba Fetts and Leia Organas are still viable characters in the FFG SW games.

 

I'm not using 'canon' personally, but even by the 'official canon', FFG have shown us Force-using NPCs in the EoE and AoR books.  Plus options for 'hybrid' Force users like the Exile and Emergent. Then there's the NPC in 'Jewel of Yavin', so there's still plenty of them around, even in the official game.

 

These games should ideally give us the ability to play an all-Jedi, or no-Force-users campaign, or mix characters freely from all three lines without any issues.

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I've argued for 'generic' career/specialties with an overarching duty/obligation mechanic (commitment), because I feel that would be the best way to represent all three of these ideas.

 

 

I have a feeling this is what we shall see. 

 

I think the PCs will be members of existing Force traditions, with a 'new' Jedi order being one of these, the first students of a reborn order or whatever.  

 

I'm also going to hazard a guess that the careers and specializations won't be tied to a specific order like Jedi or Sith. 

 

After all, at the moment, you don't have to join a secret order of slicers to take the Slicer spec. You could just be a guy good with computers.  You can take the Bounty Hunter specs like Assassin or Gadgeteer without being a paid-up, fully-credited Bounty Hunter belonging to a guild.  

Edited by Maelora

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