thinking about F&D beta.

[JP_JP 301]

Thanks EF

 

For modding lightsaber crystals, is it a mechanics check or a more appropriate skill like "discipline" or a force check ?

[Poseur 243]

It would be mechanics. I interpret it as to modding the lightsaber components to get more 'power' out from the crystal not modding the actual crystal. But if modding the actual crystal, which in my mind feels weird, but maybe attuning it more with the force than usual, then a Discipline check might be in order. 

[Gigerstreak 234]

It would be mechanics. I interpret it as to modding the lightsaber components to get more 'power' out from the crystal not modding the actual crystal. But if modding the actual crystal, which in my mind feels weird, but maybe attuning it more with the force than usual, then a Discipline check might be in order. 

I don't usually like bending the rules as set by the developer, but I do plan on using something other than Mechanics for my games.

 

A good example is Luke building his lightsaber in the Star Wars Radio Drama. He struggled with putting it together and getting it to work several times. Then he just let the Force guide him and assembled the whole thing.

 

Also, the smelting and focusing of the lightsaber crystals in the Young Jedi Knight series was a favorite of mine.

 

There was always something in the stories about people without Force Sensitivity having a very difficult time aligning the components. I want to play that up. Good Suggestion. 

[2P51 32,572]

I like the idea of Discipline being used as the check for working with a Lightsaber by a Force user.  Goes nicely with the episode in TCWs where the Younglings build theirs.  I was thinking Discipline as the skill with FR ranks adding a Boost die per rank to the roll. 

[Poseur 243]

Personally I think that only a Jedi (sorry, force user) could construct a lightsaber, and it takes some affinity with the force to put the parts together and attune the crystal to the Force. But actually modding the crystal still feel like a mechanics check, to fine-tune the mechanic and technological parts of the actual lightsaber, not modding the actual crystal by aligning it and attuning it more then it already is. However i could see that the intricate knowledge of the crystal, the Force and the users connection to both (via the Force) could add boost die, equal to Force Rating to the mechanic check.

 

Those boost could explain why Jedi Knights don't have much of a problem modding their sabers even though many of them lack some ranks in mechanics. 

[HappyDaze 9,594]

I consider the lightsaber to be a mechanical tool. The item itself is not special. The Jedi developed techniques to use the Force to enhance their use of this tool, but that doesn't mean it takes the Force to build/modify/repair it just as a Warrior (Starfighter Ace) doesn't need to the Force to build his starfighter.

[kaosoe 7,181]

What about a Lightsaber (Will) check rather than Mechanics or Discipline?

 

Then again, those darn Niman Disciples would have all the cool toys.

Edited August 19, 2014 by kaosoe

[awayputurwpn 7,650]

Also, I kinda like the way Reflect and Parry work in F&D, but since Defensive and Deflection are both different weapon stats, couldn't they give a talent that add Deflection = to ranks while wielding a lightsaber ???

This was the assumption made by some, and it is reasonable at first glance, but can you imagine how many setback dice that would result in? It's just not scalable.

This Reflect/Parry does several things REALLY well:

1) they make the talents exceptionally scalable;

2) they keep the gameplay flowing fast and free;

3) they make it so that, when the strain is spent, the player knows exactly what's happening. He isn't gambling his strain away; it's being kept as a finite resource; and

4) it mechanically reinforces the ideas that a) combat turns are more than a single squeeze of the trigger and b) wounds are more than blaster bolts hitting flesh.

I think it's masterful, and this is after seeing every other conceivable attempt at the talent from myself, Dono, DarthGM, and others that were throwing this idea around almost 2 years ago the way the talents interact together in the trees and within combat is fluid, graceful, and sensible.

[JP_JP 301]

If you just had to follow the blue prints to build a lightsaber, then everyone in the galaxy would have one... Remember in one of the TCW episodes where the jedi younglings, with Ashoka, are attacked by Ondo... before giving in for his private fleet, he asks to see a jedi build a lightsaber, saying that such a thing is priceless.... Even with the schematics, it seems really hard to build and you have to use the force to do it...

 

But I can see either mechanics or discipline used to mod the crystals... like calibrating the energy output or the blade frequency or wavelenght... any technobable to explain it....

[whafrog 9,701]

I think people need to keep in mind they probably won't be great at Parry/Reflect to begin with...

 

Thanks, I think I need to re-imagine how to narratively deal with "Wounds".  It's the wrong word for what I want it to do.

[HappyDaze 9,594]

If you just had to follow the blue prints to build a lightsaber, then everyone in the galaxy would have one... Remember in one of the TCW episodes where the jedi younglings, with Ashoka, are attacked by Ondo... before giving in for his private fleet, he asks to see a jedi build a lightsaber, saying that such a thing is priceless.... Even with the schematics, it seems really hard to build and you have to use the force to do it...

 

But I can see either mechanics or discipline used to mod the crystals... like calibrating the energy output or the blade frequency or wavelenght... any technobable to explain it....

Just about everybody in the real world can get the blue prints for builing nuclear weapons, but that doesn't mean everybody has one. The crystal are the limiter. They are exceptionally rare and hard to craft for use in a lightsaber. That crafting takes skill, but not necessarily use of the Force (although it could certainly help if practiced to do so).

[whafrog 9,701]

Just about everybody in the real world can get the blue prints for builing nuclear weapons, but that doesn't mean everybody has one. The crystal are the limiter. They are exceptionally rare and hard to craft for use in a lightsaber. That crafting takes skill, but not necessarily use of the Force (although it could certainly help if practiced to do so).

 

If I use TCW as a guide, then the use of the Force is essential...

[Inksplat 271]

Just about everybody in the real world can get the blue prints for builing nuclear weapons, but that doesn't mean everybody has one. The crystal are the limiter. They are exceptionally rare and hard to craft for use in a lightsaber. That crafting takes skill, but not necessarily use of the Force (although it could certainly help if practiced to do so).

 

If I use TCW as a guide, then the use of the Force is essential...

Not true. It is a Droid doing the teaching in that episode. If only the Force can build a lightsaber, how does a Droid become a master lightsaber engineer? They're just mechanical tools, but they're complicated ones. The Force allows children to put pre-constructed pieces together, but they're still powered by circuits and power cells that could be modified by a mechanics check.

[khaine1969 34]

Am I the only one that noticed that the warrior/aggressor tree has reflect, and saber throw talents, which both require a lightsaber (unlike parry that can use any melee weapon) but doesn't have lightsaber as a class skill? It seems as if they are trying to give lightsaber skill only in the "form" trees, but if you're gonna put saber only talents in the tree it should teach the skill... right?

 

T

[Lorne 2,021]

Sure it's an oversight -- warrior seems to break the pattern of only having only 1 saber spec per career, so they prolly just forgot.

[Revanchist7 456]

Am I the only one that noticed that the warrior/aggressor tree has reflect, and saber throw talents, which both require a lightsaber (unlike parry that can use any melee weapon) but doesn't have lightsaber as a class skill? It seems as if they are trying to give lightsaber skill only in the "form" trees, but if you're gonna put saber only talents in the tree it should teach the skill... right?

 

T

This is not a situation unique to this spec.  Sometimes the talents put emphasis on skills that aren't tied to the spec.  It's probably a decision based on balance.  It's not as if making a skill career is crazy difficult, or crazy expensive to buy out of career.

[zjbh7 18]

 

Am I the only one that noticed that the warrior/aggressor tree has reflect, and saber throw talents, which both require a lightsaber (unlike parry that can use any melee weapon) but doesn't have lightsaber as a class skill? It seems as if they are trying to give lightsaber skill only in the "form" trees, but if you're gonna put saber only talents in the tree it should teach the skill... right?

 

T

This is not a situation unique to this spec.  Sometimes the talents put emphasis on skills that aren't tied to the spec.  It's probably a decision based on balance.  It's not as if making a skill career is crazy difficult, or crazy expensive to buy out of career.

 

I think they should modify the Sabre Throw Talent so it can be used for any melee weapon.  I mean why is it the lightsaber is the only force empowered throw-able weapon in the galaxy?  Imagine a force wielding Wookie Aggressor tossing his vibro-axe at a storm trooper?  That would make you crap your pants seeing that coming your way.

Edited August 19, 2014 by zjbh7

[2P51 32,572]

 

 

Just about everybody in the real world can get the blue prints for builing nuclear weapons, but that doesn't mean everybody has one. The crystal are the limiter. They are exceptionally rare and hard to craft for use in a lightsaber. That crafting takes skill, but not necessarily use of the Force (although it could certainly help if practiced to do so).

 

If I use TCW as a guide, then the use of the Force is essential...

Not true. It is a Droid doing the teaching in that episode. If only the Force can build a lightsaber, how does a Droid become a master lightsaber engineer? They're just mechanical tools, but they're complicated ones. The Force allows children to put pre-constructed pieces together, but they're still powered by circuits and power cells that could be modified by a mechanics check.

 

He is teaching, but he is not building.  Lots of people teach things to students who far exceed the teacher's skills or ability.  Male gynecologists deliver babies, they aren't likely to ever have one............

[Revanchist7 456]

Using Mechanics to build a lightsaber isn't super weird when you consider you're using Medicine with the magic healing power.  Being good at using the Force doesn't make you automatically good at what you're trying to accomplish with it.

 

"Skill does not always draw from the Force, but it is a measure of power nonetheless. It can grant knowledge, help steady oneself when one's thoughts are in chaos, or grant enlightenment[...] When I spoke of sight before, there is a similar handicap that tends to occur among those strong in the Force. They neglect their skills. Some believe they no longer need them." -Darth Traya

[yeti1069 340]

I wonder if a more "Star Warsy" model might have been something like only tracking Strain and Criticals.  Strain is the currency of action and critical-avoidance.  You can spend Strain to reduce a critical by 10.  Criticals work as they do today, but give a number of setbacks to action equal to the difficulty of the worst one to heal.  The crit-potential of weapons would have to be worked out...

 

 

I like that. It does look more "Star Warsy"!

 

It would be mechanics. I interpret it as to modding the lightsaber components to get more 'power' out from the crystal not modding the actual crystal. But if modding the actual crystal, which in my mind feels weird, but maybe attuning it more with the force than usual, then a Discipline check might be in order. 

I don't usually like bending the rules as set by the developer, but I do plan on using something other than Mechanics for my games.

 

A good example is Luke building his lightsaber in the Star Wars Radio Drama. He struggled with putting it together and getting it to work several times. Then he just let the Force guide him and assembled the whole thing.

 

Also, the smelting and focusing of the lightsaber crystals in the Young Jedi Knight series was a favorite of mine.

 

There was always something in the stories about people without Force Sensitivity having a very difficult time aligning the components. I want to play that up. Good Suggestion. 

 

I'd call it a Mechanics check to which you get to add your Force Rating.

 

What about a Lightsaber (Will) check rather than Mechanics or Discipline?

 

Then again, those darn Niman Disciples would have all the cool toys.

Making it a Lightsaber check also seems reasonable...

 

Or it could be a special check that takes your ranks in Lightsaber and uses your Force Rating as a characteristic... So, if you had 2 ranks and a FR of 3, you would roll YYG.

[Gigerstreak 234]

I like several of these suggestions. A lightsaber is supposed to be very difficult tool to build. Something about precision aligning the circuits and fusing them by subtle manipulation with the Force. Not impossible, but perhaps quite Formidable? 
 

http://youtu.be/-EQbHmXDCn8?t=2m53s a link to the part I am talking about in the Radio Drama. Of course, this could just be him finally succeeding on the check. 

[yeti1069 340]

HAVE MY COPY!

 

Some of the talents that weren't super-clear in the short descriptions are pretty awesome!

 

I like the Inquisitor-building rules. Quick and easy, and gives a kind of baseline to expand that to other sorts of enemies.

 

I need someone in Staten Island to start a game with Jedi NOW!!

[knasserII 2,555]

I think people need to keep in mind they probably won't be great at Parry/Reflect to begin with...

 

Thanks, I think I need to re-imagine how to narratively deal with "Wounds".  It's the wrong word for what I want it to do.

Personally, I think the critical table covers actual wounds quite well. The physical damage you take before exceeding your Wound Threshold is still physical damage unlike Strain, but that doesn't mean it's a wound. When I've been in real fights, I've found all sorts of minor injuries I never even noticed at the time (including a massive bruise on my shin I still don't know where it came from but I'm guessing I must have bashed into a chair without realizing it). Even if someone successfully reflects a blaster bolt, just the act of jumping around without your full awareness on your environment will inevitably lead to banged elbows, heads, et al. As Qui Gon Jinn said: "Be mindful of your surroundings".

[Jegergryte 1,674]

I like the idea of Discipline being used as the check for working with a Lightsaber by a Force user.  Goes nicely with the episode in TCWs where the Younglings build theirs.  I was thinking Discipline as the skill with FR ranks adding a Boost die per rank to the roll. 

Discipline makes sense, but I'm more keen on your idea about implementing FR into the mix. Whether using Mechanics or Discipline (or the Lighsaber skill), I'd let the character add a number of Force dice equal to FR, where LS-pips counts as successes or advantages at the discretion of the player, and DS-pips counts as threats - perhaps failures, but I'd prefer threats.

[Norsehound 2,708]

Morality looks interesting. Is it a mechanic relevant only to force users, or can it be used independently by non force-users?