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oriondean

thinking about F&D beta.

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The whole thing about suffering strain to reduce damage sounds weird to me, as no Jedi with a lightsaber actually gets hit when deflecting a blaster bolt (no collateral damage).[/color]

If I gave you a baseball bat and then proceeded to throw knives at your face which you had to try and hit away from you, I imagine you would rapidly suffer stress and muscle fatigue (two components of Strain damage) regardless of your successfully doing so.

Edited by knasserII

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The whole thing about suffering strain to reduce damage sounds weird to me, as no Jedi with a lightsaber actually gets hit when deflecting a blaster bolt (no collateral damage).[/color]

If I gave you a baseball bat and then proceeded to throw knives at your face which you had to try and hit away from you, I imagine you would rapidly suffer stress and muscle fatigue (two components of Strain damage) regardless of your successfully doing so.

 

If you stated you were giving me that baseball bat so you could throw knives at me I would either have the door slammed shut between us or knocked you flat and taken your knives away from you! :P  (And yes slamming the door shut is much more likely in this case!)

 

Is this Strain damage per round?

Because if thats so I'd agree with the original statement that doesn't sound right, having it last a couple of rounds but please remember the prequel trilogy are also canon (unfortunately but true... :P ) how much further strain would they take running away from those destroyer droids after they were parrying their blasts like mad? :huh:

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One doubt. If a "generic inquisitor" has an Adversary 3, this means that "bad named guys" will probably have 4 or 5 ranks on Adversary?

 

Thanks!

The Inquisitors are meant to be the big-league villains of a story, on the same tier as a major named villain like Boba Fett or Vader, so I feel pretty confidant that Adversary 3 is the intended cap.

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As for the belly-aching on Parry and Reflect...

This is the Beta, so those talents aren't set in stone just yet. As written, they are per attack in terms of strain cost and damage reduction, but that can change provided there's enough feedback to warrant it and if a suitable alternate method is offered.

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Does the Jedi have to do these mods him/her self?  I would think so, but it means every Jedi needs decent mechanics skills.

I actually suggested an alternative idea directly to Sam Stewart (cool chap) at GenCon, and he lit up with "that's a really cool idea!" and suggested I include in the feedback e-mail that I'm drafting.

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What is your opinion on a player that wants to have a Holocon that was from an ancestor of theres that was a Jedi Master from another version of the Starwars RPG the D20 version. I thought that having a Holocron to use that could train then to be a Sentinal or a Warrior was a bit crazy. I also thought that Holocron's would have been made by either the Mystic, Counsular, or the Scholar, or Historian. Was it ever stated that all Jedi masters are taught how to make a Jedi Holocron? I am very curious to see what some replied would be on this matter.

 

Sounds like a great idea.  It doesn't matter what the book of a system you used to use said -- rules are a contrivance, a means to an end. What matters is that the story is believed and enjoyed by all.

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What’s up with the “reflect” talent? Before the release of the book, I could swear they would make a talent that would provide a lightsaber with the deflective item quality (which makes it act like some sort of shield). The whole thing about suffering strain to reduce damage sounds weird to me, as no Jedi with a lightsaber actually gets hit when deflecting a blaster bolt (no collateral damage).

 

Additionally, there is at least one lightsaber modification that adds the deflective item quality to it (Lorrdian gemstones), so now we have two different mechanics to represent blaster bolt deflection… Not nice!

 

What do you guys think about that?

I'm not sure how else you do it without adding more dice rolling, which I think they definitely didn't want to slow combat down with Lightsabers as that would defeat the fast visual nature of it.

In regards to the movies, we do see Jedi overcome by intensive fire and unable to keep up.

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I agree, just because a Jedi doesn't get hit by a blaster bolt, doesn't mean it didn't cause them strain to block it.

True. Spending strain to deflect is very reasonable. But as it is now, reflection works as a damage reduction measure. In other words, you will likely still get wounds when successfully deflecting a blaster bolt.

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I actually suggested an alternative idea directly to Sam Stewart (cool chap) at GenCon, and he lit up with "that's a really cool idea!" and suggested I include in the feedback e-mail that I'm drafting.

So........ Any chance of sharing that idea here? :)

Unfortunately, any feedback I might have looks to be all theory. There's no group in person even close that I'm aware of, and I can't find a PbP on any of the sites I visit regularly.

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Does the Jedi have to do these mods him/her self?  I would think so, but it means every Jedi needs decent mechanics skills.

I actually suggested an alternative idea directly to Sam Stewart (cool chap) at GenCon, and he lit up with "that's a really cool idea!" and suggested I include in the feedback e-mail that I'm drafting.

 

I'm with TCArknight, care to share it?

Edited by whafrog

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What’s up with the “reflect” talent? Before the release of the book, I could swear they would make a talent that would provide a lightsaber with the deflective item quality (which makes it act like some sort of shield). The whole thing about suffering strain to reduce damage sounds weird to me, as no Jedi with a lightsaber actually gets hit when deflecting a blaster bolt (no collateral damage).
 
Additionally, there is at least one lightsaber modification that adds the deflective item quality to it (Lorrdian gemstones), so now we have two different mechanics to represent blaster bolt deflection… Not nice!
 
What do you guys think about that?

 

I look at it like this: the system abstracts combat in several ways, but the really big one is that a lot more happens in one round than the dice indicate--the idea is that one "shot" or roll of the dice actually represents the character firing several times over the course of a round (I can't recall whether that's 1 minute or 5 in EotE, but it's longer than the 6 second D&D round). So, with the Reflect (and Parry) talents, I think of it as the character is batting away blaster bolts, but if they don't negate the damage with the Reflect talent entirely, some of those shots they've batted away have grazed them. Now, if you're particularly tough, or are wearing armor, those grazes won't do much of anything anyway, because they'll get soaked.

 

The Deflect property on the weapon could represent that the weapon is designed for the purpose enough that you're less likely to get hit at all by the bolts...maybe it widens the "blade" a bit, so you have a greater surface area on which to catch bolts?

 

 

Does the Jedi have to do these mods him/her self?  I would think so, but it means every Jedi needs decent mechanics skills.

I actually suggested an alternative idea directly to Sam Stewart (cool chap) at GenCon, and he lit up with "that's a really cool idea!" and suggested I include in the feedback e-mail that I'm drafting.

 

Care to share?

 

Also, what is the standard channel for providing feedback to FFG about stuff in the Beta?

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Also, what is the standard channel for providing feedback to FFG about stuff in the Beta?

 

There will be a process laid out just like the previous Betas once they actually announce it.  They give weekly direction and errata updates throughout.  It was like 10ish pages long by the end of AoR.

Edited by 2P51

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True. Spending strain to deflect is very reasonable. But as it is now, reflection works as a damage reduction measure. In other words, you will likely still get wounds when successfully deflecting a blaster bolt.

 

Have to say I agree with the general sentiment.  In the SW media, fights are frantic and exhausting, but rarely cause "wounds" that would take days to recover from, and they aren't always injecting stimpacks either.  The strain load is pretty heavy however.  Lightsaber duels are rarely "damaging" (except to minions) until they are suddenly crippling or fatal.

 

That said, I'm not sure how else they could have modelled it effectively.  I think a duel that doesn't reduce the capacity of each side has the potential to drag on indefinitely.  But the term "Wounds" suggests a gash or a bruise, and fights don't generally happen that way.

 

Rambling thought:

 

I wonder if a more "Star Warsy" model might have been something like only tracking Strain and Criticals.  Strain is the currency of action and critical-avoidance.  You can spend Strain to reduce a critical by 10.  Criticals work as they do today, but give a number of setbacks to action equal to the difficulty of the worst one to heal.  The crit-potential of weapons would have to be worked out...

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I always wish a game would model HP as Luck or Fate or something. Criticals go through it/ignore it, and deal the actual wounds, while the "HP" count is the countdown before things turn really bad and fatal for you.

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I always wish a game would model HP as Luck or Fate or something. Criticals go through it/ignore it, and deal the actual wounds, while the "HP" count is the countdown before things turn really bad and fatal for you.

 

Check out WotC's Star Wars: Revised Core Rules.  Vitality Points basically served this function.

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I've always represented to my players that Wounds in this system don't necessarily mean literal wounds, but just your overall level of health and well-being. 

 

Even in the new D&D rules, they call out that a creature with half or more of its hit points total may not really be literally wounded, while someone with almost zero hit points has actually taken some serious hits to the body.

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The strain load is pretty heavy however.  

 

 

The thing is, you don't want to totally negate the benefit of successful attacks. Mitigating them to strain allows the attacker to have gained ground while avoiding the "I hit first so I win" situation that can arise from using lightsabers. 

 

So yes, three or four parries is costly, but that was three or four successful lightsaber attacks that didn't kill you.

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True. Spending strain to deflect is very reasonable. But as it is now, reflection works as a damage reduction measure. In other words, you will likely still get wounds when successfully deflecting a blaster bolt.

 

Have to say I agree with the general sentiment.  In the SW media, fights are frantic and exhausting, but rarely cause "wounds" that would take days to recover from, and they aren't always injecting stimpacks either.  The strain load is pretty heavy however.  Lightsaber duels are rarely "damaging" (except to minions) until they are suddenly crippling or fatal.

 

That said, I'm not sure how else they could have modelled it effectively.  I think a duel that doesn't reduce the capacity of each side has the potential to drag on indefinitely.  But the term "Wounds" suggests a gash or a bruise, and fights don't generally happen that way.

 

Rambling thought:

 

I wonder if a more "Star Warsy" model might have been something like only tracking Strain and Criticals.  Strain is the currency of action and critical-avoidance.  You can spend Strain to reduce a critical by 10.  Criticals work as they do today, but give a number of setbacks to action equal to the difficulty of the worst one to heal.  The crit-potential of weapons would have to be worked out...

 

I think people need to keep in mind they probably won't be great at Parry/Reflect to begin with, but you can keep piling up ranks as you advance and cross specialize, so what doesn't seem that great with one or two ranks, when a character achieves 6 or 7 ranks, +2, coupled with a Soak rating you'd expect to find on an advanced character, they are liable to rarely suffer a Wound.

 

The Strain cost is for using it and still engaging in combat as well.  If a player simply stands their ground and defends, the cost with a Supreme version drops to one Strain.  Then combine the Reflects with Protect, and it's Discipline roll generating Advantages that could be used to recharge Strain.  You aren't making a combat check attacking a target, so the Strain cost for the Reflect would still be 1, since the Discipline roll is not a combat check.  Quickly the Force user becomes an impenetrable wall between the two.  You draw the enemy's fire while comrades engage in other ways, or escape.

Edited by 2P51

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I'm looking at sample of F&D Betabook and I wanted to know if I got the changes correctly for the lightsabers.

 

First : the Lightsaber skill is now officially associated to Brawn, you can't choose anymore between brawn or agility. If you want to use another attribute, you need to get the appropriate talent from the form talent trees.

 

Second : the Lightsaber stats from EotE or AoR no longer hold true, since brand new lightsabers are considered equipped with an unmodded Ilum crystal, so Dmg 6, crit 2, breach 1, sunder. To upgrade these stats, you have to either mod the crystal or buy more potent one, the Kray Dragon Pearl being the best one, and most expensive.

 

 

Also, I kinda like the way Reflect and Parry work in F&D, but since Defensive and Deflection are both different weapon stats, couldn't they give a talent that add Deflection = to ranks while wielding a lightsaber ???

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I'm looking at sample of F&D Betabook and I wanted to know if I got the changes correctly for the lightsabers.

 

First : the Lightsaber skill is now officially associated to Brawn, you can't choose anymore between brawn or agility. If you want to use another attribute, you need to get the appropriate talent from the form talent trees.

 

Second : the Lightsaber stats from EotE or AoR no longer hold true, since brand new lightsabers are considered equipped with an unmodded Ilum crystal, so Dmg 6, crit 2, breach 1, sunder. To upgrade these stats, you have to either mod the crystal or buy more potent one, the Kray Dragon Pearl being the best one, and most expensive.

 

 

Lightsaber stats still hold true: the stats in AoR are for a fully modded Ilum crystal: 9k for the crystal, 300 for the hilt, and 700 for all the mods. Granted, the HPs are off, but everything else is right.

-EF

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