Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
BenOverlord

New Mok

Recommended Posts

Sigma - Nope, it's totally clear it's one hit point per instance of healing.

 

You'd be amazed at how many "instances of healing" happen over the course of the hero's 4 turns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guess you are right.  I was the one that started the tread but seemed the topic was changed.  Was trying to get the view of people of the meaning of the new Mok was.  I realize why the nerf was done but wanted to know if the intent was to allow more flexibility or if it was bad English. 

 

Base Mok was one of the strongest healers.

 

Appreciate everyone's insight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what about allies ? Is it an additionnal turn as well ?

I don't have the rules in front of me, but I can't imagine a way the rules could be worded where the allies DON'T get a turn.

 

According to the rules, there is nothing saying that Allies get turns. They are merely activated (the way that monsters and familiars are activated), but that the activation happens outside of the turn structure instead of during a player's turn:

 

During a quest in which the hero players control an ally, the hero players may activate the ally once each round before the overlord's turn. The ally must be activated either before or after a hero has completed his turn. The ally cannot be activated during a hero's turn. After activating the ally, the hero players flip the Ally card facedown to indicate that the ally has been activated that round.

So it seems like FFG almost went out of their way to imply that Allies do not get turns (without explicitly saying it).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm - as with so many other things, the rules aren't particularly clear... but I think you're right, Griton. Really good catch. Of course, the rules don't really cover "time spent that is not a turn", so I think until I hear differently from FFG I'll read the paragraph you quoted as follows:

 

During a quest in which the hero players control an ally, the hero players may activate the ally once each round before the overlord's turn. The ally must be activated on a hero's turn, either before or after a hero has completed his actions. After activating the ally, the hero players flip the Ally card facedown to indicate that the ally has been activated that round, and the hero's turn ends.

 

So, here, the ally is clearly activating, like a familiar, on a player's turn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seem that everyone's understanding is different. But my understanding that FFG make change of Mok in 2 times.

1. early in 2013: Only 1 (H) and 1(F) each time although many hero heal.

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/11671264#11671264

 

2. late in 2013: Once per turn (My understanding is Once per round that will consider like other exhausted effect), if more than 1 hero heal, it will count the number of healed hero to recover number of (H)  or (F) and (H) and (F) can count in different case. So in the case with Ally, at most that his ability can recover 4 (H) and 4 (F). For consider Serena as ally, her action can easy to heal 3 hero and Mok can easy to get 3(H) and 3(F) each round.

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/13623774#13623774

 

 

This change will become more fair to balance the power among hero.

Consider over hero, Mok 4-10-4 and total 11 for 4 skill--> it is normal & feat also not bad.
And other hero with recover power:

Ispher heal only 1 (H) per round + cannot Poisoned

Syndrael if not moving then heal 2(F) per round.

High Mage Quellen have someone with (F) then recover 1(F) or 2(F) per round.

Tinashi the Wanderer recover 1 (F) if kill 1 monster per round.

So for Mok can recover 1(H) and 1(F) in almost very easy way (3 space with someone recover 1(H) and 1(F)). If there are some ability (such as Serena's action) that can heal 2 hero in the same time. Mok's ability will become great ability than all the hero. 

Edited by william231

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm - as with so many other things, the rules aren't particularly clear... but I think you're right, Griton. Really good catch. Of course, the rules don't really cover "time spent that is not a turn", so I think until I hear differently from FFG I'll read the paragraph you quoted as follows:

 

During a quest in which the hero players control an ally, the hero players may activate the ally once each round before the overlord's turn. The ally must be activated on a hero's turn, either before or after a hero has completed his actions. After activating the ally, the hero players flip the Ally card facedown to indicate that the ally has been activated that round, and the hero's turn ends.

 

So, here, the ally is clearly activating, like a familiar, on a player's turn.

I disagree- putting the ally during a hero's turn (when it clearly ("before or after a hero has completed their turn") is not, creates situations that could grant Mok extra healing. Since the ally is not supposed to activate during a hero's turn, Mok should not be able to heal extra when Serena performs "Soothing Spirit." This could be exploited by the heroes by activating her "during" the turn of a hero who otherwise wouldn't heal wound or fatigue. I don't think the wording is vague at all:

 

"Once per turn" means a maximum of one time during each and every turn. There is 1 turn per hero, and 1 overlord turn, so a maximum of 5 times per "round."

 

And, as stated above, "before or after a hero has completed their turn" is immediately before or after, but not during, a hero's turn. Familiars are different because they activate immediately before or after a hero performs his 2 actions, but between the start and end of turn- this is why a necromancer can't activate his reanimate after he stands up, because his turn immediately ends, leaving no time for the activation.

Edited by Zaltyre

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then you'll have to explain to me the rules implications of "time in the game that is not part of a turn." It's a nonsensical concept in this game, and I have no doubt that it'll break a bunch of stuff. If the goal is just "elder mok shouldn't get a free heal just because there's an ally on the board" there are better ways to solve that from a rules perspective than literally inventing a new kind of time. So, like I said, I will play it the way I laid out, which in all ways operates exactly the same as activating the ally during nega-time, except it fits in the existing rules.

 

Rules simplicity is a virtue. I honestly don't understand why so many game companies have no comprehension of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

"Once per turn" means a maximum of one time during each and every turn. There is 1 turn per hero, and 1 overlord turn, so a maximum of 5 times per "round."

 

 

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/13643103#13643103

According to Justin on October 4th reply:

 

Q:If Elder Mok used his first action by using the staff of light's "Each hero within 3 spaces of you recovers 1 heart and 1 fatigue", would he recover 2 heart + 2 fatigue or 4 heart + 4 fatigue?

 

A:Since it says "each time" he would actually recover 4 and 4, which is perhaps just a little too good.

 

 

So I am not so agree that 5 times per round since it is too overpower. It make Mok can easy recover  2(F) - 3(F) per round.  It is almost a rest action. AS OL, I will not let my group play as this OP way so my group just play once per round but count number of hero healed at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

William- I agree that "old" Mok from the conversion kit was very powerful. I think that comment from Justin you're referencing deals with that version of the hero, as opposed to the new version which is limited as "once per turn."

 

Then you'll have to explain to me the rules implications of "time in the game that is not part of a turn." It's a nonsensical concept in this game, and I have no doubt that it'll break a bunch of stuff. If the goal is just "elder mok shouldn't get a free heal just because there's an ally on the board" there are better ways to solve that from a rules perspective than literally inventing a new kind of time. So, like I said, I will play it the way I laid out, which in all ways operates exactly the same as activating the ally during nega-time, except it fits in the existing rules.

 

Rules simplicity is a virtue. I honestly don't understand why so many game companies have no comprehension of that.

It's not "inventing a new type of time." Almost every NPC in the Nerekhall expansion activates "after any hero turn" and "performs 2 actions," but the time when they activate is not part of that hero's turn. The wording is noticeably different than NPC's like Sir Palamon, which activate "at the end of the last hero's turn," with the important distinction being between "after" and "at the end of." 

 

I would imagine that the only implications of time periods that are not a player's turn would include things such as skills that say "exhaust during your turn" could not be played, nor could abilities (like Mok's) that are limited as "once per turn." 

Edited by Zaltyre

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For consider Serena as ally, her action can easy to heal 3 hero and Mok can easy to get 3(H) and 3(F) each round.

Except that Allies don't have turns and don't activate during turns, so Mok's ability can't trigger during an Ally activation since that activation is not during a turn.

 

 

Then you'll have to explain to me the rules implications of "time in the game that is not part of a turn." It's a nonsensical concept in this game

It's not nonsensical, you just defined it (as it's self-defining). There are turns in the game which are clearly defined. Anything that happens between those turns is time that is not part of a turn. There's nothing saying that the game solely comprises turns and that nothing can happen outside of a turn.

 

I have no doubt that it'll break a bunch of stuff.

You're going to have to provide examples for this statement to be credible. I can't think of it breaking anything at the moment, and as it appears to be pretty clearly intended by FFG, I'm pretty sure they've thought about it a good deal too. It's certainly possible, but no more than any other rule, all of which could be game breaking in the presence of other situations that don't exist yet.

 

 

I will play it the way I laid out, which in all ways operates exactly the same as activating the ally during nega-time, except it fits in the existing rules.

1) This is possibly one of the only times I'll say it already fits in the existing rules, because it's not stated that it doesn't fit. (Because FFG has made a statement that leans heavily towards it actually existing with their wording and nothing else they've printed contradicts it). You continually insisting that "time between turns" doesn't exist or is "nega-time" simply because it isn't explicit doesn't make it so.

 

2) Zaltyre already pointed out how it is different, but I'll quote him to put the point in again:

putting the ally during a hero's turn ... creates situations that could grant Mok extra healing. Since the ally is not supposed to activate during a hero's turn, Mok should not be able to heal extra when Serena performs "Soothing Spirit." This could be exploited by the heroes by activating her "during" the turn of a hero who otherwise wouldn't heal wound or fatigue.

While it doesn't change the maximum amount of healing done, it does increase the chances for the heroes to reach that maximum amount; therefore: definitely not "in all ways ... exactly the same".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...