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MyNeighbourTrololo

An Esgaroth Advanture Pack

81 posts in this topic

So, somewhere in discussion about underdeveloped and not developed at all traits, someone

mentioned Esgaroth trait. So, here I present you another of my brainfarts, an Advanture Pack worth of player cards, dedicated to the Esgaroth and it's essential inhabitants - the Craftsmen.

 

 

Images:  http://imgur.com/a/dzP7q

OCTGN Set: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yz5poche6wo3xoy/Esgaroth%20beta.rar

Edited by MyNeighbourTrololo

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Wow fantastically done. I normally don't give custom cards the time if day but you did a fantastic job capturing a unique feel for a trait and creating some very useful cards that are well balanced (well the fisherman and hired blade might be OP if I had to nitpick). The toll gate in particular had just a great and appropriate mechanic

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Given the opportunity I would like to see your creation of a hero for this "AP worth of cards" to tie it all together. Maybe even the master who whomever your inspiration inclines you to make

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Thanks a bunch. Can you elaborate about Fisherman and Hired Blade being OP?

Fisherman is fine, I misinterpreted his ability on my first read thru and missed the part about him returning to your hand so I was incorrectly under the impression that he could just create a free resource each turn (which he still technically can do but it wouldn't net you anything ((no pun intended)) since you would have to pay for him each time) The hired blade still seems quite good; comparing him to the most comparable example now is the vassal of the wind lord which has worse stats and must leave play after one turn. Paying a resource to keep him isn't the hardest thing in the world to do especially if you splash leadership. You also don't even necessarily need to spend the resource each turn either. He can be dropped as a cheap chump if necessary or to just polish off a big enemy. I use the term OP liberally so he may not be that but I think he would instantly be a staple in decks using tactics

Edited by Pharmboys2013
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I have to agree about the hired blade and fisherman. I feel that hired blade. Should cost 2, but I'm really not sure. I'm not 100%.

I think fisherman is definitely too cheap or something. After you quest and win by 4, or after a location is explored maybe, because he isn't unique you could have +3 resources a turn. Plus he is neutral. I get the card though, don't get me wrong, a killable, cheap neutral resource generator. Good idea.

EDIT: Sorry I'm super tired, I also missed the back to your hand bit.

Edited by ZanzibarLand

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Also I didn't mean to seem so negative, the merchant craftsman theme is awesome. I really like the overall feel and searching abilities. Again, great job at your custom content.

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Well done. Fisherman and Toll Gate are especially cool ideas. Not sure if I'd choose the same card costs for some cards, but nevermind. There's a typo on Hired Blade btw.

 

Thanks for sharing! :)

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Going deep into my reasoning behind Hired Blade:

The main contestant is Vassal of the Windlord, yes. Vassal is a great card and I love to use him. His main advantage over Hired Blade is being ranged. Leaving play and being an Eagle has some advantages too, if you delve into this stuff.

Another obvious contestand is Knight of Minas Tirith. He costs 2 more, but will attack for free until death do us part, can drag down a potentially nasty foe from the staging area, reducing the thread and even possibly killing him, saving you the trouble of defending. He can be bumped up to 4 attack by Boromir.

Hired Blade will cost you a resource per turn, draining you dry if you're will not co-operate with Leadershit. He has little direct synergy with other cards. Increasing his cost or reducing his attack will make him less favorable than generic 2-3 cost attacker allies in my eyes. He also can get exhausted by a treachery or something else, wasting your time and resources. 

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A little update: I did some research and designed a hero to fit this "pack".

 

Also, thanks for pointing out the typo, while I was fixing it, I came up with some interesting balance fix for the Hired Blade.

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Very nice cards, I enjoyed them a lot. I like the ability on the Master, how he gets very powerful with more resources but can die if you give him to much. Nice.

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Thematically, he doesn't die, he gets overgreedy and runs away with all the treausures :lol:

...like he did according to the history of Esgaroth. So keep an eye on him.

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A little update: I did some research and designed a hero to fit this "pack".

 

Also, thanks for pointing out the typo, while I was fixing it, I came up with some interesting balance fix for the Hired Blade.

Okay. My first thought when refreshing the thread was "how could I miss the hero?!?" :lol:

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I mostly like these cards.

 

Aspiring Alchemist: is really nicely costed for it's ability and power. Maybe it should be cost 4 because it's in leadership (but I think you already factored that in at 3)

 

Toll Gate: I like the idea of this card although thematically charging Orcs for entry to your quest seems a little odd. I can't think how to make it neater without making it keyed to a trait in the encounter deck (which I know you dislike - in any case there is no such neat trait for humans). It's probably as good as it ever will be because of that. It's a nice idea.

 

Master Blacksmith: I really like the idea, I wonder if the cost is a bit too low though (his stats are okay on a cost 2, and he can put a weapon or Armour attachment into play, the cost of which range from 1-4). On the other hand he's awful to play at cost 3 without a weapon or armor attachment in hand so maybe that is sufficient balance, I would probably make him weapon or armour (not both) or cost 4.

A day at the market: this is my favorite card, I wouldn't change anything.

 

Travelling Artificer; This is the card I like the least, thematically the idea of an artificer in lord of the rings seems out of place (especially a travelling one). I think that the "search for an artifact card" would need to be to do with ancient lore. I personally would make it a "secret knowledge type card, in lore with a doom and cost).

I think the effect of searching for an artifact is so good in the decks that need them (mainly Elrond/Galadriel but Aragon too), that it can't be cost 1 on the back of an ally that also is good (people will pay 2 for a 2 willpower ally without anything as they do with westfold traveller which is a just worse ally than this).

I like the picture, and the idea of searching for an artifact but this card is too strong.

Too busy to rest: I like this card. I might suggest renaming it to "Endless toil" but it doesn't need that. Nothing needs changing.

Hired blade: He's too cheap for how good he is. I would change it to cost 2, and make it hired blade is discarded at the start of the refresh phase unless you pay 1 resource. I'd also add the mercenary trait (along with warrior and Esgaroth) because mercenary would be good trait to add to the game. 

I think his stats are still too good even at cost 2 and would either look at reducing them a little (or a lot if you want to keep him cost 1) I quite like the idea of him costing 1 every time you use him - you might be able to get way with 0/3/0/1 for cost 1 (with the pay 1 or discard him rule) I think his starts are just far too nice even for a cost of 1 a turn currently.

I do like the pay to refresh him idea though, just needs the numbers tweaking. 


Hardened: I'd make it cost 1 (it's supreme benefit is that it gets you an additional +1 without being restricted, it would still see play at cost 1). Personally I'd change the name to "forged" but hardened works.

Fisherman: I like this card (second favorite card out of these) it's a nice idea, I wouldn't change him at all.
 

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Aspiring Alchemist was originally 2, then I have it a thought and gave her well deserved 3. To cost 4, she'll need a better stat block. The main point is that you need a situation to call upon her - a wounded character, a nasty condition in play or somebody who needs a little bit of bulking up, so you'll keep her in your hand until you have the opportunity.

 

Note that Master Blacksmith is being exhausted if you play him with his response triggered.

 

As for Travelling Artificer, I'm no dabbler of LotR lore, I was just assuming there could be something like this going on in the trade town like Esgaroth, having so many people(elves and dwarfs) to trade with. I'll consider doing something with her.

 

The Stats of Hired Blade are storng, yes, but as expensive his service in the long term. I've already bumped him to 2 with a little trick. I was considering reducing his health and defense, but willpower - really? Will somebody spend a resource to quest for 1? I think I have another interesting idea, but his text box is starting to get bloated...

 

As for Hardened - it's a very specific card. It requires you to have a weapon or armor attached, and you need to have a craftsman in play, which are nonexistent in the tactics sphere. Dam, I think I had forgotten to limit it to 1 per attachment...

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A little update: I did some research and designed a hero to fit this "pack".

 

Also, thanks for pointing out the typo, while I was fixing it, I came up with some interesting balance fix for the Hired Blade.

I started my post before the update -

The hero seems fine to me, he has a slight stat advantage, on the other hand he does have the risk of being discarded entirely if you stall on things to spend his resources on if you try to utilize it.

I think your hired blade is still too good; the hired blade costs 2, and has an 8 point stat allocation - the best stat allocations for a 3 cost card (that doesn't leave play after one turn) is 7. That's a somewhat crude way of looking at it but; 

The negative of needing to pay 1 to refresh him isn't really a good justification if you compare this card with, watcher of Bruinen or Trollshaw Scout (both of which require you to discard one card or discard it from play - which is a harsher punishment than doesn't ready and arguably a greater cost than 1 resource). Additionally being able to pay 1 on him is beneifical to the new hero (which is nice synergy, but does make this card even better).

Getting a 3 in attack is pretty big in general. Vassal of the winglord gets a 3 for cost 1  with an automatic discard and a stat allocation of 4, this guy is basically a winglord that stays in play every turn you choose not to pay for him, that can also quest for 1 and defend for 2 with 2 hitpoints. (Even at cost 2 he's just better).

Getting 1 willpower as a tactics ally at cost 1 or 2; will make him an auto-include for tactics. They don't get +1 willpower until cost 3 (Or Guthlaf with Rohan - but he has no special rule without also having a gondor hero, even then he only gets sentinel and a bad stat array). 

I would seriously be considering cost 3 and 0 willpower. I think 0 willpower makes thematic sense for a mercenary that isn't a mercenary scout or tracker personally. You could make him cost 2 if you don't keep the ability to lower it with Esgaroth heroes, but I think that it's better at cost 3 with that rule kept.

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Aspiring Alchemist was originally 2, then I have it a thought and gave her well deserved 3. To cost 4, she'll need a better stat block. The main point is that you need a situation to call upon her - a wounded character, a nasty condition in play or somebody who needs a little bit of bulking up, so you'll keep her in your hand until you have the opportunity.

 

Note that Master Blacksmith is being exhausted if you play him with his response triggered.

 

As for Travelling Artificer, I'm no dabbler of LotR lore, I was just assuming there could be something like this going on in the trade town like Esgaroth, having so many people(elves and dwarfs) to trade with. I'll consider doing something with her.

 

The Stats of Hired Blade are storng, yes, but as expensive his service in the long term. I've already bumped him to 2 with a little trick. I was considering reducing his health and defense, but willpower - really? Will somebody spend a resource to quest for 1? I think I have another interesting idea, but his text box is starting to get bloated...

 

As for Hardened - it's a very specific card. It requires you to have a weapon or armor attached, and you need to have a craftsman in play, which are nonexistent in the tactics sphere. Dam, I think I had forgotten to limit it to 1 per attachment...

I accept that Hardened requires you to be dual sphere,and with the limit of 1 per attachment it would become a maximum of +2 attack.

On the other hand, the best weapon in the game (Dwarven axe) is cost 2 for a flat +1 (+2 for dwarfs), followed by dwarrowdwelf axe, which is cost 1 for a flat +1 with a special rule (dwarf only).

This would basically work on any weapon in the game to make it either as good as the best weapon in the game (with + its own extra rules) or make the best weapon potentially +3, which is better than even the treasures from the hobbit saga.

Yes it might sit in your hand as a dead card until you get a craftsman or a weapon - and if you were intending the craftsmen trait to be limited to just these four cards then I would agree that cost 0 is fine. However craftsmen (In lord of the rings) is the kind of trait I would expect to eventually be quite common if it was added. Hence wanting it to be cost 1. 

This card is fine if you never add more craftsmen.

Aspiring Alchemist is fine at cost 3, I was thinking that having access to the flexibility she offers should cost more, but at cost 4 she'd never get played.

Master Blacksmith being exhausted is a nice cost - but I'm still concerned with, essentially the potentially huge resource advantage.  His stats are decent for cost 3 but not great with not special rule. However if you play him and a cost 3 or 4 attachment then you're essentially getting a huge boost of resources and still getting a decent character all for only losing one turn of use with him.

He'd chain too well with master of the forge I feel - You'd either play him for 3 and not exhaust him (if you needed his "okay" stats) or you'd, get a huge resource advantage.

The problem is if you make him cost 4 you lose the resource advantage but then he's only worth playing if you also get a decent attachment out of it, which is probably too restrictive. At cost 3 though it feels like the advantage is a bit too good still. Maybe if you lower his defence..

but then I feel like his stat array is right for a human blacksmith in this game. That's why I suggested making him a weapon or armour smith (rather than both) ...

maybe it's okay for the card to be on the powerful side though...  I think this might be the hardest card to make a call on, it's not super powerful like this, but it's definitely on the powerful side. I do like the idea of this blacksmith card.

I don't think you read my response about hired blade when you wrote your reply (my fault sorry, I didn't see your update until later). I will add though, there's been loads of solo tactics games I've played where I would absolutely pay 1 resource a turn for 1 willpower and it would have made a huge difference.  I often consider using White-tower watchman in solo tactics because I want the willpower rather than the hitpoints.

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I think I could have just made it worse, but Travelling Artificer is now Noldor, costs 1 more, exhausts to in addition to spending 1 resource for her ability and searcher only top 10 cards of your deck. And has 1 more health.

 

Hardened is now limited to being 1 per attachment.

 

Hired Blade just lost Sentinel and got some interesting condition which will make keeping him around a bit tricky. And he kept his 1 willpower. I consider willpower not only being tied to the person's strength of will, but also to it's wit. You need to have at least some wit to survive as mercenary in this world, I suppose.

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I think I could have just made it worse, but Travelling Artificer is now Noldor, costs 1 more, exhausts to in addition to spending 1 resource for her ability and searcher only top 10 cards of your deck. And has 1 more health.

 

Hardened is now limited to being 1 per attachment.

 

Hired Blade just lost Sentinel and got some interesting condition which will make keeping him around a bit tricky. And he kept his 1 willpower. I consider willpower not only being tied to the person's strength of will, but also to it's wit. You need to have at least some wit to survive as mercenary in this world, I suppose.

I think she's more believable as a Noldor (the implication of her travelling is that she travels where she needs to for the ancient artifacts, which is a nicer touch) -I think she's much better the way you have her now.

Hired Blade with the extra risk of being discarded if you have no resources is much better, I'm happy for him to keep the +1 willpower with this change. He still works really well with the hero you've created but I think that's a good thing.

Hardened: as I said, if you never add other craftsmen this seems perfectly fine to me. 

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I think I have an idea how to make her less blunt and more easily accessible, while keeping her balanced. But I'll take those thoughts to the bad, as it's falling too late. Gonna come back to this tomorrow, after the work. Have some stuff in my pocket to start turning this into the deluxe expansion.

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Updated images with the spelling and typo fixes. Slightly reworked Artificer.
Added new leadership ally (he doesn't fits into the main post):

 

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Here are some card I'm highly doubtful about and would like to hear someones opinion on:

 

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Those cards are The Toll Gate-like, obviously. Just an thoughts on what if Toll Gate was not an unique to it's kind and there was a whole subtype of cards like it.

Edited by MyNeighbourTrololo

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Warband leader: seems to be fine; definitely playable with the potential to give you a good reward for the cost (but if he hits nothing he's slightly too expensive). Which seems like the right place for him to be. It's a good card I would expect to see something similar from the official developers if they really do develop the warrior trait for allies.

Shifting Bargains: I find this really hard to evaluate. I'm not sure I would ever pay two for this effect (since it requires card discard as well) on the other hand I can think of times when this would be amazing, it's also guaranteed to work every round that you're on that quest card so maybe cost 2 is appropriate. 

 

Watchtower: I really like the effect on this card. I suspect that cost 2 is too cheap for it for an effect you can use every round while on the same quest card though. Yes it's only 1 enemy a turn in single player - but it has the potential to negate two enemies per play (kill 1 with the damage, then the +defence makes it so another does no damage). I'd pay 2 for this on a one use event card so I think the cost is too low. 

It should be at least 3; arguably even 4. (Although at 4 it becomes a card that would be still great for some quests but mostly too expensive for it's effect). I'd make it 3 for play-testing.

Great Celebration: This is one of those cards that I think you've undercosted, but it depends on if the Esgaroth trait was going to get more attention. If Esgaroth was eventually going to be a full trait (I think it will) then this card should be cost 4 at least. If however the trait isn't full (like eagles) then I think it should be cost 2.


In general it's hard to evaluate the value of "attach to the current quest card" we don't currently have any cards of that type from the official game. I'm sure they'll come eventually but I don't know how to cost-balance them. They're better than attachments to locations because the quest will typically stay in play for longer. They're like effects you'll get for some rounds between 1 and 8 or 9 (for some quests).

This makes me feel they should maybe all be 1 cost more in general than those attachments (which would make them cost 2 base, instead of cost 1) - however getting some of these effects for a cost of only 2 over 8 or 9 rounds would be ridiculously good. So they would need a lot of play testing to find the balance of the cost.

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I love you idea of attaching cards to the current quest card. There's a lot of give and take with them because they can stick around for a long time, or they can be gone later that round, depending on how well you quest. I think the potential for them to be very short-lived could bring the price down on them a bit, but maybe not. It's also nice because at the moment, nothing can target an attachment that is attached to a quest.

 

I also love Hardened. In one sense, it's nothing new because you could just play one of the Dunedain attachments instead, but this gives you the versatility to put the points where they are needed at the time, but it also has a requirement of another armor/weapon attachment to be in play, so a 1- or 0-cost is pretty good.

 

Great work with most of these cards. You are adding something truly unique to the game with them. Add these to Gizlivadi's Haven cards, and we're looking at a very different game than we're used to.

Edited by joezim007

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