RevDEAD 0 Posted May 15, 2014 Does that count as an "unsuccessful run"? Tennin Institute says that it'll pop if a player doesn't make a successful run. However, if a player doesn't attempt a run at all, how can it be a success or a failure? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khouri 96 Posted May 15, 2014 The card checks for a successful run, so as long as the runner does not make one (either from not running, by jacking out or bouncing off EtE ice) you will get to use Tennin's ability. Had it specified an unsuccessful run, the runner would be able to deny use of the ability by not running (which would defeat the point of the identity imho). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevDEAD 0 Posted May 16, 2014 As opposed to an identity being wholly overpowered and procing even if there isn't a run to check for success/failure? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khouri 96 Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) All it is checking for is, did the runner make a successful run? Whether this condition is not met by failing to run or failing a run is irrelevant. As for overpowered, not really. Trap jinteki suffered a lot from runners who only ran when it suited them, and with a fist full of cards. Tennin changes that by giving the runner a choice, all they have to do is make a successful run and there is no free advancement. If you lock them out of their agendas all the advancements in the world won't win them the game (but then it is jinteki). Edited May 16, 2014 by Khouri 2 Dydra and etherial reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CommissarFeesh 458 Posted May 16, 2014 It's hardly overpowered. And as for the initial question, simply compare the wording of Tennin to that of Successful Demonstration. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grimwalker 647 Posted May 19, 2014 It's strong, let's not kid ourselves. A lot of times recursion is better than draw, so all you have to do is splash a little purple to reclaim your Tricks of Light and a pair of Tennin tokens is like a loaded Astroscript. Terrifying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CommissarFeesh 458 Posted May 19, 2014 It's strong, let's not kid ourselves. A lot of times recursion is better than draw, so all you have to do is splash a little purple to reclaim your Tricks of Light and a pair of Tennin tokens is like a loaded Astroscript. Terrifying. It's not AS scary. A loaded Astro needs a 3/2 in hand and 2 credits to score again. Jinteki needs a 3/2 in hand, 2 credits AND a ToL in hand. That's not an inconsequential difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grimwalker 647 Posted May 20, 2014 That's why I specified the recursion aspect of it. If you have both extra copies of TOL still in your deck *and* the ability to bounce any number of them back to hand at will, it's as much of a loaded gun as Astroscript. In the tournament I was in, he'd scored once and I'd seen Archived Memories and Reclamation Order, so the ability was there. The practical result is the same, once they draw into an agenda they can score it, and once they're at match point you have to hustle and pray that the gods of random access are in a good mood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
