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Tactician and Decoy

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The thread is growing too fast for me to keep up. Sorry if this has been said.

Most people seem to be thinking of using Decoy like Swarm Tactics.

The beauty of Decoy is that you can put it on a ship like Green Squad

and steal the high PS of a ship whose EPT slot is full or doesn't

have one like Horton Salm.

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For Decoy: Horton Salm with Proton torpedoes?  Get the luxury of locking on with you action after everyone has moved, but when it's time to fire, switch your pilot skill with a weaker pilot, allowing your squad to bring the target's shields down.  Then, when you fire your proton, the potential for crits has a higher chance of slipping through?

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How about this use of Decoy:

 

Let's say you have Whisper in his/her phantom with Decoy in the EPT slot.  When you are cloaked, you use it to swap another ship to higher PS, and the lower PS doesn't matter because she couldn't have shot anyway.  Or on Corran Horn during his off-turn?  Maybe not an efficient use of it but it may confuse your opponent once or twice.

 

Thoughts?

Edited by Engine25
catachan23 and Magnus Grendel like this

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Decoy.

 

I'm not sure I follow.  According to the rules Pilot Skill is the pilot skill number.

 

This doesn't say anything about the abilities elite or otherwise.

 

Or am I late to the party and everyone already knows this?

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Decoy.

 

I'm not sure I follow.  According to the rules Pilot Skill is the pilot skill number.

 

This doesn't say anything about the abilities elite or otherwise.

 

Or am I late to the party and everyone already knows this?

He's saying nab Corran's PS the round he's not shooting anyway. Free high PS.
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So what about Decoy on a Phantom that already had VI

As in taking Echoes 6+2 PS? Not sure if you get the 6 or the 8.) I mean Phantoms typically want High PS for moving and when they shoot shouldn't be incredibly important. But taking a cloaked Phantom's high PS is definitley a good deal if your Phantom is stuck cloaked.

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It means you take their pilot skill. Veteran instincts increases this, so you get the new value.

 

As far as I know bonuses stack - for example, if you give an X-wing R2-D2 and a shield upgrade, R2 can still repair the 'extra' shield.

 

But yes, that's a very good use of decoy - give an already good pilot veteran instincts, then you can theft it whenever they don't need it.

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Soo uh, Kath Scarlet, with Rebel Captive, Title + Flechette Torpedoes and Tactician = rage generator?

 

Firespray only has one Crew seat.  Gonna have to pick between Rebel Captive or Tactician.

 

I think rebel captive works better on Kath because it causes your opponent to avoid shooting at her. Tactician would make her a bigger target than she already is. Tactician on a Bounty Hunter, though, that would take great advantage of the double firing arcs.

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Another difference between Decoy and Swarm Tactics is that Decoy only effects the combat phase. It is yet another way to allow a ship to move first and shoot first.

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Another difference between Decoy and Swarm Tactics is that Decoy only effects the combat phase. It is yet another way to allow a ship to move first and shoot first.

Swarm tactics only changes the combat phase too...

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Vader, Decoy, Engine Upgrade

Sigma, Tactician, ACD x 2

 

Vader doesn't mind shooting last, he's not all that heavily armed anyway.

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I have a feeling Decoy is going to become one of those upgrades like Expose that people try to make work and keep coming back to it, to just realize it's really not worth it.  

 

In order to really be useful, the higher PS pilot needs to have something in his EPT anyways, otherwise you're just using it as a R2 ST-lite.  Then, the higher PS pilot needs to not mind getting potentially killed before he shoots... This is typically not a very wise thing to do since your high PS folks are the ones that have special abilities and will be targeted first more often than not anyways.  And then your low PS needs to have a reason to shoot earlier... since it's not the primary target anyways and it'd be unlikely to be killed before it shot anyways.

 

Yes, I know I'm being generalistic... There will be times when your high PS doesn't have a shot, so you don't mind giving your PS away... there will be times when your low PS has 1 hull left, so the enemy will shoot at him first... there will be times where you have Biggs protecting you anyways (in which case you're in R1 anyways).  And there will be times where people will want to shoot before/after in order to have certain synergies work, such as PT, Maarek, ACD, Opp, Ion...

 

I think it's best use will be on Dutch and Jan/Kyle... Obviously with Ions.  Since they want to shoot last to get the ion token to stick, they WANT to be a low PS... not even so much as they want 1 person to shoot first... they want EVERYONE to shoot first.  Plus they're not typically the first target so it's unlikely that they will be killed before their PS comes around.  Finally they are in ships that are hard to fly in formation, so the R2 will be a good thing for them.

 

Meanwhile, on the imp side, I don't really see any reason for it on anything.  A black isn't deadly enough to consider wanting to trade PS with someone higher, and would be better off with ST if it was protecting a hurt academy... Sabers+RGP want PTL (or VI on the RGP)... high PS interceptors want to shoot before they get dead... same with mauler + HR... Possibly on Kath (because who runs Boba anyways, plus it would kinda make his ability useless) since she's a tank... And then vader and maarek wouldnt' be too bad of a use because they're tanks that no one cares to kill.  *shrug.

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I have a feeling Decoy is going to become one of those upgrades like Expose that people try to make work and keep coming back to it, to just realize it's really not worth it.  

 

In order to really be useful, the higher PS pilot needs to have something in his EPT anyways, otherwise you're just using it as a R2 ST-lite.  Then, the higher PS pilot needs to not mind getting potentially killed before he shoots... This is typically not a very wise thing to do since your high PS folks are the ones that have special abilities and will be targeted first more often than not anyways.  And then your low PS needs to have a reason to shoot earlier... since it's not the primary target anyways and it'd be unlikely to be killed before it shot anyways.

 

Yes, I know I'm being generalistic... There will be times when your high PS doesn't have a shot, so you don't mind giving your PS away... there will be times when your low PS has 1 hull left, so the enemy will shoot at him first... there will be times where you have Biggs protecting you anyways (in which case you're in R1 anyways).  And there will be times where people will want to shoot before/after in order to have certain synergies work, such as PT, Maarek, ACD, Opp, Ion...

 

I'm not sure that it will catch on, but I'm also not sure that comparing it to Expose is a fair approach.  Expose is a terrible card for 2 reasons: Overcosted because it takes an action, AND it takes an action.  4 Dice with Focus averages more hits than 5 dice without it.

 

The second point I quoted is that Decoy is super situational.  With this I would definitely agree.  So, is there a way to build a list so that its situationality is a benefit?  I think there probably is, in fact you listed some.  I think it would be a great help to switch a Phantom or Corran Horn with a lower ship during rounds when they can't fire.  I don't think it will ever be a COMMON upgrade, but it will find its niche, exactly like Swarm Tactics has.  The Range 2 is a huge benefit.  The question is, will the risk of losing the benefit early in a match cause its ultimately limited use?  This is possible, but we have to wait and see.  Situational cards have both gone by the way side (Maarek Steele) and seen a lot of great use (Advanced Sensors).  I definitely plan to test this card out soon and see if I can make a build that it helps.

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In all honesty, Tactician and Decoy both fall into that very limited, mediocre realm of use in my book. They'll see occasional use, perhaps, but certainly aren't expressly powerful cards (which they shouldn't be for 2 squad points).

 

The main issue I have with Decoy is that its general application appears to be either to throw onto a high PS support ship (e.g., Jan Ors) for non-unique swarm tactics which, since it's the same cost, is meh when you take a penalty in reduced PS, or you use it as a failsafe when a high PS has a weaker shot than a low PS, which, honestly you should be working hard to prevent. Are there some combos in there for daisy-chaining effects to get hard hitters lower, such as Opportunist or what have you? Maybe, but I've yet to really see one that leaps off the page/screen as being that reliable or effective when you could use Swarm Tactics, Veteran Instincts, or the like more consistently and often to greater overall effect. I was really hoping Decoy was going to cause some Biggs-lite effect or transfer target locks or something more defensive. 

 

Tactician is a little better since it has a fairly reliable effect that can be combo'd and built around somewhat, so I think that will see much more use, particularly with ships that have crew that have good position manipulation (barrel roll/boost) and ways to magnify it (gunner, ion, etc.).

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In all honesty, Tactician and Decoy both fall into that very limited, mediocre realm of use in my book. They'll see occasional use, perhaps, but certainly aren't expressly powerful cards (which they shouldn't be for 2 squad points).

 

The main issue I have with Decoy is that its general application appears to be either to throw onto a high PS support ship (e.g., Jan Ors) for non-unique swarm tactics which, since it's the same cost, is meh when you take a penalty in reduced PS, or you use it as a failsafe when a high PS has a weaker shot than a low PS, which, honestly you should be working hard to prevent. Are there some combos in there for daisy-chaining effects to get hard hitters lower, such as Opportunist or what have you? Maybe, but I've yet to really see one that leaps off the page/screen as being that reliable or effective when you could use Swarm Tactics, Veteran Instincts, or the like more consistently and often to greater overall effect. I was really hoping Decoy was going to cause some Biggs-lite effect or transfer target locks or something more defensive. 

 

Tactician is a little better since it has a fairly reliable effect that can be combo'd and built around somewhat, so I think that will see much more use, particularly with ships that have crew that have good position manipulation (barrel roll/boost) and ways to magnify it (gunner, ion, etc.).

Swarm tactics isn't unique. You're thinking Squad leader, I think.

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Sure, Decoy isn't the Push the Limit or Predator. But it does have some very fun uses. I like Decoy being used with Garvin, so he can attack first and start passing out his Focus tokens. And again, handy for getting your low PS ship a final shot before it's eliminated. Which fits in with the name.

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Question

 

One of the most popular uses of Swarm Tactics is the chain,  IE to bring several ships up to the Pilot Skill of an ace by putting the card on several ships.

 

Could Decoy work similarly?  It's function doesn't really seem conducive to that at first, but consider this:

Lets say you have three ships that got separated during the firefight, two of which have Decoy as their EPT.  You deem it best for one particular ship to fire first, but it neither has Decoy, nor is it in Range 1-2 of the high PS ship with Decoy.  It is Range 2 of the middle PS ship with Decoy which is Range 2 of the highest PS ship with Decoy.  Could you activate Decoy to swap the Middle and High ships, and then use the other Decoy card to swap the now highest ship (previously middle) with the low ship?

 

I'll try to make more sense of it in a Diagram

 

[PS2]-R1-|-R2-[PS6]-R2-|-R1-[PS9]

 

The PS9 and PS6 switch, and then the new PS9 and PS2 switch, so it becomes this:

 

[PS9]-R1-|-R2-[PS2]-R2-|-R1-[PS6]

 

Would this be possible?

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Would this be possible?

I think so.

 

ST allows chains. You replace a PS then use the new PS for the next ST card. Same with Decoy. You replace two PS values, then resolve the next decoy card.

 

 

On a related note, ST and decoy might result in nice combinations.

Edited by dvor
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On a related note, ST and decoy might result in nice combinations.

 

Wedge with whatever (like PTL&R2)

green with swarm tactics and decoy

 

Green uses both abilities on Wedge. Decoy first, ST second. Result: Both ships shoot at PS 9.

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On a related note, ST and decoy might result in nice combinations.

 

Wedge with whatever (like PTL&R2)

green with swarm tactics and decoy

 

Green uses both abilities on Wedge. Decoy first, ST second. Result: Both ships shoot at PS 9.

Wedge with Swarm Tactics.

Green Squadron with PTL and Squad leader.

Stress ends up on the better ship for dealing with stress. They have to choose shooting Wedge, or the guy with more actions who gives Wedge more actions.

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On a related note, ST and decoy might result in nice combinations.

 

Wedge with whatever (like PTL&R2)

green with swarm tactics and decoy

 

Green uses both abilities on Wedge. Decoy first, ST second. Result: Both ships shoot at PS 9.

Wedge with Swarm Tactics.

Green Squadron with PTL and Squad leader.

Stress ends up on the better ship for dealing with stress. They have to choose shooting Wedge, or the guy with more actions who gives Wedge more actions.

In that setup, green cannot SL Wedge.

 

 

Edit:

squad-leader.png

Edited by dvor

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