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eztrelle

Transition from Interlude to Act 2

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After completing the Interlude and changing out act 1 mobs and shop cards for act 2 and giving the heroes the chance to buy any shop 1 cards remaining.... Is there then a full campaign phase before starting the first act 2 quest?

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In terms of more shopping, no. The heroes do not visit the Act 2 shop until after the first Act 2 quest. However, they do get to spend experience, etc, and you travel to the next quest as normal.

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Ah OK. Does that mean that the shop step of a campaign phase following an Interlude quest is when the heroes get to look/buy any remaining act 1 shop cards?

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Ah OK. Does that mean that the shop step of a campaign phase following an Interlude quest is when the heroes get to look/buy any remaining act 1 shop cards?

I don't think so. It is more like a separate step which would be important for the rumor card that deals all shop cards face down IN THE SHOPPING STEP of campaign phase.

I'm still waiting for ffgs reply to this one as I ask about it via rules questions link.

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Ah OK. Does that mean that the shop step of a campaign phase following an Interlude quest is when the heroes get to look/buy any remaining act 1 shop cards?

I don't think so. It is more like a separate step which would be important for the rumor card that deals all shop cards face down IN THE SHOPPING STEP of campaign phase.

I'm still waiting for ffgs reply to this one as I ask about it via rules questions link.

This is exactly what I was thinking about. Anyway if the purchase any remaining shop 1 cards happens outside of the campaign phase following an Interlude quest.... What exactly do you play in the shopping step? Act 2 shop cards? Before any act 2 quest? That seems wrong to me.

This really needs official clarification as it's not covered in the rules or FAQ.

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I guess you might deal them usual shop cards as it is technically still act one. But that is apparently redundant .

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It's simple:

 

in the shop phase after interlude, you not draw X cards (X = number of heroes + 1) but you give ALL cards to choose.

 

this rules is stupid but....

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Sorry but no! This happens even before the campaign phase. The question was what happens in the shopping step if shopping took place before.

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This is exactly what I was thinking about. Anyway if the purchase any remaining shop 1 cards happens outside of the campaign phase following an Interlude quest.... What exactly do you play in the shopping step? Act 2 shop cards? Before any act 2 quest? That seems wrong to me.

This really needs official clarification as it's not covered in the rules or FAQ.

 

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/906747/act-2-transition-shopping

 

This does have an official response. Between the interlude and the first Act 2 quest, the heroes have access to the entire act 1 shop. They do not visit the act 2 shop until AFTER the first act 2 quest. The shopping step after the interlude is different from all the others, in that they get to see all cards, not number of heroes +1.

 

The reason the "Transition to Act 2" happens when it does is (I would assume) to account for the situation where a hero draws a search card while travelling to or during the first Act 2 quest, and that happens to be a treasure chest- in that case, they would get a random Act 2 shop card. 

Edited by Zaltyre

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This is exactly what I was thinking about. Anyway if the purchase any remaining shop 1 cards happens outside of the campaign phase following an Interlude quest.... What exactly do you play in the shopping step? Act 2 shop cards? Before any act 2 quest? That seems wrong to me.

This really needs official clarification as it's not covered in the rules or FAQ.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/906747/act-2-transition-shopping

 

This does have an official response. Between the interlude and the first Act 2 quest, the heroes have access to the entire act 1 shop. They do not visit the act 2 shop until AFTER the first act 2 quest.

Is this really official? Looking at the rule book page 22 in section called act 2.... Heroes have a chance to visit the shop and purchase any remaining act 1 cards IMMEDIATELY after finishing the Interlude.

So... Follow the above with a campaign step and in the shopping phase of campaign step heroes get to shop act 2 cards as per the rules page 21 first paragraph... "act 1 cards are used until players have completed the INTERLUDE at which point players switch to Act 2".

So in summary

1.) heroes get a special shop phase immediately after the Interlude to purchase have remaining act 1 cards.

2.)Then in the shop step of the campaign phase they get to shop act 2 cards for the first time. This is before any act 2 quest are played.

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Here is exactly what's listed in the rulebook. I bolded what I consider to be the key statement regarding your question. Notice it does not say Act 2 items are available for purchase in this step. Once the shopping step is completed all unpurchased act I cards go back to the box and only Act 2 quests may be purchased from now on. Since this shopping step is completed that means after the first act 2 quest.

------------------
Act II

After completing the Interlude, the campaign transitions to Act II. From
now on, players choose quests from among the Act II options and prepare
themselves for the Finale.
Immediately after completing the Interlude, follow these steps:

1. Return the Act I Monster and Lieutenant cards to the box and
retrieve the Act II Monster and Lieutenant cards. From now on, all
monsters and lieutenants use their Act II characteristics.

2. Hero players now have a chance to visit the shop and purchase any
Act I Shop Item cards.
Deal out all remaining Act I Shop Item cards
faceup. The hero players may purchase any number of Act I Shop
Item cards they are able to afford.

3. Return all unpurchased Act I Shop Item cards to the game box and
retrieve the Act II Shop Item cards. From now on, use the Act II Shop
Item cards. Act I Shop Item cards currently in possession of the heroes
are unaffected. Any Act I Shop Item card sold by the heroes during
Act II is returned to the box.

After completing three Act II quests, it is time for the Finale. Players
resolve one Campaign phase as normal and then the heroes travel to the
Finale quest to determine the ultimate winner of the campaign!

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Here is exactly what's listed in the rulebook. I bolded what I consider to be the key statement regarding your question. Notice it does not say Act 2 items are available for purchase in this step. Once the shopping step is completed all unpurchased act I cards go back to the box and only Act 2 quests may be purchased from now on. Since this shopping step is completed that means after the first act 2 quest.

------------------

Act II

After completing the Interlude, the campaign transitions to Act II. From

now on, players choose quests from among the Act II options and prepare

themselves for the Finale.

Immediately after completing the Interlude, follow these steps:

1. Return the Act I Monster and Lieutenant cards to the box and

retrieve the Act II Monster and Lieutenant cards. From now on, all

monsters and lieutenants use their Act II characteristics.

2. Hero players now have a chance to visit the shop and purchase any

Act I Shop Item cards. Deal out all remaining Act I Shop Item cards

faceup. The hero players may purchase any number of Act I Shop

Item cards they are able to afford.

3. Return all unpurchased Act I Shop Item cards to the game box and

retrieve the Act II Shop Item cards. From now on, use the Act II Shop

Item cards. Act I Shop Item cards currently in possession of the heroes

are unaffected. Any Act I Shop Item card sold by the heroes during

Act II is returned to the box.

After completing three Act II quests, it is time for the Finale. Players

resolve one Campaign phase as normal and then the heroes travel to the

Finale quest to determine the ultimate winner of the campaign!

This does not answer my question. There must be a campaign phase after the players have done the steps you outline above BEFORE they start the first act 2 quest. In that campaign phase there will be a shopping step. Page 21 of the rule book says and I quote "Act 1 cards are played until the players have completed the Interlude at which point players switch to Act 2" So players can put have act 2 cards in the shop step of the campaign phase after the Interlude.

Basically..

1.) Finish Interlude quest.

2.) Heroes get a chance to buy any remaining act 1 shop cards

3.) Campaign phase including a shop step where they can buy act 2 shop cards.

Then play first act 2 quest.

Is there an official response anywhere to the contrary to what I state above?

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Basically..

1.) Finish Interlude quest.

2.) Heroes get a chance to buy any remaining act 1 shop cards

3.) Campaign phase including a shop step where they can buy act 2 shop cards.

Then play first act 2 quest.

Is there an official response anywhere to the contrary to what I state above?

 

No- not even a little. Did you click the link I put in my last post? Second post from the top. The response from FFG reads "Heroes cannot purchase Act II Shop Items until after the first Act II quest has been played."

 

Unless you want to contest whether that response is a forgery, your sequence is incorrect. There is no shopping step containing act 2 items before the first Act 2 quest.

 

The "at which point players switch to act 2" refers to the stuff in the paragraph outlined above, which does not contain a shopping step with Act 2 items.

Edited by Zaltyre
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Here is exactly what's listed in the rulebook. I bolded what I consider to be the key statement regarding your question. Notice it does not say Act 2 items are available for purchase in this step. Once the shopping step is completed all unpurchased act I cards go back to the box and only Act 2 quests may be purchased from now on. Since this shopping step is completed that means after the first act 2 quest.

------------------

Act II

After completing the Interlude, the campaign transitions to Act II. From

now on, players choose quests from among the Act II options and prepare

themselves for the Finale.

Immediately after completing the Interlude, follow these steps:

1. Return the Act I Monster and Lieutenant cards to the box and

retrieve the Act II Monster and Lieutenant cards. From now on, all

monsters and lieutenants use their Act II characteristics.

2. Hero players now have a chance to visit the shop and purchase any

Act I Shop Item cards. Deal out all remaining Act I Shop Item cards

faceup. The hero players may purchase any number of Act I Shop

Item cards they are able to afford.

3. Return all unpurchased Act I Shop Item cards to the game box and

retrieve the Act II Shop Item cards. From now on, use the Act II Shop

Item cards. Act I Shop Item cards currently in possession of the heroes

are unaffected. Any Act I Shop Item card sold by the heroes during

Act II is returned to the box.

After completing three Act II quests, it is time for the Finale. Players

resolve one Campaign phase as normal and then the heroes travel to the

Finale quest to determine the ultimate winner of the campaign!

This does not answer my question. There must be a campaign phase after the players have done the steps you outline above BEFORE they start the first act 2 quest. In that campaign phase there will be a shopping step. Page 21 of the rule book says and I quote "Act 1 cards are played until the players have completed the Interlude at which point players switch to Act 2" So players can put have act 2 cards in the shop step of the campaign phase after the Interlude.

Basically..

1.) Finish Interlude quest.

2.) Heroes get a chance to buy any remaining act 1 shop cards

3.) Campaign phase including a shop step where they can buy act 2 shop cards.

Then play first act 2 quest.

Is there an official response anywhere to the contrary to what I state above?

I'm sorry if the rules don't help you. You aren't following a regular campaign phase right after the interlude, hence the instructions I had posted above. Otherwise FFG would simply say "follow the campaign phase but offer all tier 1 in addition to the tier 2 drawn" or "shop twice."

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OK I have found an FFG response over on BGG. They admit that the transition step has been incorrectly written. Heroes do get a chance to cash in their search cards etc from the Interlude quest before doing the special shop step for Act 1 cards. Act 2 cards cannot be purchased. It still leaves that rumour card open to Interpretation as to whether this is a shop step that the card can be resolved in.

I will post the thread with the FFG response shortly.

Edited by Bagpus

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OK I have found an FFG response over on BGG. They admit that the transition step has been incorrectly written. Heroes do get a chance to cash in their search cards etc from the Interlude quest before doing the special shop step for Act 1 cards. Act 2 cards cannot be purchased. It still leaves that rumour card open to Interpretation as to whether this is a shop step that the card can be resolved in.

I will post the thread with the FFG response shortly.

 

Just got the official answer from FFG (copied below):

 

me:

"I have a question concerning the rumor card 'Unknown Treasures'. Am I allowed to play this card in the shopping phase directly after the interlude quest of a campaign? The rules as written seem to say, yes, but it seems very powerful in that instance."

 

Nathan Hajek (FFG):

Unknown Treasures cannot be used when purchasing from all Act I shop cards after the interlude. It is not an actual shopping step and so it does not apply.
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Some good followup questions would probably be:

 

Is the regular shopping phase skipped / is this in its place, or does it occur during a different part of the campaign phase? Are heroes allowed to sell back item cards during it?

 

Basically, if it's not a regular shopping phase, what other differences might there be? Will future cards possibly affect it?

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Some good followup questions would probably be:

Is the regular shopping phase skipped / is this in its place, or does it occur during a different part of the campaign phase? Are heroes allowed to sell back item cards during it?

Basically, if it's not a regular shopping phase, what other differences might there be? Will future cards possibly affect it?

Agreed. The whole process between end of Interlude quest and start of first act 2 quest is very poorly defined. I would like to see a definitive sequence of events detailing the order of things that happen including the 3 items defined in the rulebook as happening immediately post Interlude quest AND the contents of the associated campaign phase post Interlude quest. As an example what do you do in "the Real shopping step" in the campaign phase post Interlude quest. Edited by Bagpus

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Summing up official ruling and in-thread discussion I suggest the following run down.

 

Interlude is lost or won->

- heroes can sell starting items and sell/buy any Act I items (kind of different interlude 'sale, sale, sale' not-really-shopping-phase apart from campaign phase).

- campaign phase kicks in and you can have another shopping phase (if you like) but as Act II items are off limits you would deal act I items... 

 

Pretty straightforward but unfortunately not descently (nice pun, isn't it?) explained in the Rules.

Edited by Ser Folly

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Some good followup questions would probably be:

 

Is the regular shopping phase skipped / is this in its place, or does it occur during a different part of the campaign phase? Are heroes allowed to sell back item cards during it?

 

Basically, if it's not a regular shopping phase, what other differences might there be? Will future cards possibly affect it?

griton, I submitted a similar question last week, just waiting on a reply- essentially, is the act two transition stuff followed by a "normal" campaign phase sans shopping, or does the interlude have a "special" campaign phase that is normal in all respects except the shopping step is replaced by the transition to act 2? I will post the question/reply when I receive it- the main difference in the two interpretations is whether or not the heroes have the gold from the interlude to spend in the act 1 shop. Every game of Descent I've participated in used the second method (act two transition replaces the normal shopping step.)

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Summing up official ruling and in-thread discussion I suggest the following run down.

 

Interlude is lost or won->

- heroes can sell starting items and sell/buy any Act I items (kind of different interlude 'sale, sale, sale' not-really-shopping-phase apart from campaign phase).

- campaign phase kicks in and you can have another shopping phase (if you like) but as Act II items are off limits you would deal act I items... 

 

Pretty straightforward but unfortunately not descently (nice pun, isn't it?) explained in the Rules.

Love the pun! I think all it really needed is something to the effect of "replace standard shopping step with a special shopping step where heroes have a chance to view and buy all remaining act 1 shop cards. Cards that effect the standard shopping step do not effect this special shopping step."

Because the transition from Interlude to Act 2 is a real "journey in the dark" without It! :-)

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After the Interlude of the Act 1, the Heroes may view all Act 1 Shop cards and purchase any of them which they desire. They may not, peak at the Act 2 Shop cards during any shopping phase of the campaign until after the first Act 2 quest is completed, and the shopping phase has begun following that.

 

By all means, no one is to dictate how you or your party plays the game, feel free to bend or forge the rules to your parties' preference.

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- heroes can sell starting items and sell/buy any Act I items (kind of different interlude 'sale, sale, sale' not-really-shopping-phase apart from campaign phase).

- campaign phase kicks in and you can have another shopping phase (if you like) but as Act II items are off limits you would deal act I items... 

So in this case, the collection of gold / rewards from the interlude happens after the "Select from all the items" and before a normal shopping phase that occurs where you only show a few items. The problem is that according to RAW, as soon as they purchase from "any remaining Act I cards", the rest are returned to the game box, making that normal shopping phase have nothing to select from.

 

 

After the Interlude of the Act 1, the Heroes may view all Act 1 Shop cards and purchase any of them which they desire. They may not, peak at the Act 2 Shop cards during any shopping phase of the campaign until after the first Act 2 quest is completed, and the shopping phase has begun following that.

 

By all means, no one is to dictate how you or your party plays the game, feel free to bend or forge the rules to your parties' preference.

The point is that everyone kind of assumes that this replaces the normal shopping phase in the Campaign phase, which makes a certain amount of sense because of its elegance, but that's not how the Rules actually read. If the rules section on p. 22 under "Act II" happens immediately after completing the quest, before the campaign phase kicks in, and Act II cards aren't available until after an Act II quest, then the Shopping step of that campaign phase is pointless.

 

Note that under "The Campaign Phase", at the very top of p. 20 of the rules, it says

After each quest of a campaign, there is a Campaign phase... It is important to note that ... the Campaign phase does not take place until the entire quest is finished. During the Campaign phase, ... the heroes may visit the shop in Arhynn to purchase new equipment."

And under Act II on p. 22 it says

Immediately after completing the Interlude, follow these steps:

  1. [Return Act I Monster/Lieutenant cards, replace with Act II cards] 
  2. ... Deal out all remaining Act I Shop Item cards faceup. The hero players may purchase any number of Act I Shop Item cards they are able to afford.
  3. [Return unpurchased Act I Shop cards, replace with Act II cards]

 

So according to RAW (not necessarily according to what everyone thinks makes sense), and until at least a semi-official clarification / errata:

You don't get XP, Gold, or ANY rewards until Steps 1 and 3 of the Campaign Phase. Since the Post-Interlude stuff is self contained and says "Immediately after the quest" and the Campaign phase is also self contained and "after the quest", it implies one of two things:

  1. Post-Interlude is before Campaign Phase. Hero players don't get to use Interlude rewards when purchasing from all remaining Act I shop cards because they haven't reached the step of the Campaign phase where they get rewards, then Step 5 (Shopping) of the Campaign phase is pointless because all Act I cards have been returned to the box.
  2. Post-Interlude is after the Campaign Phase. Hero players get rewards from Interlude, perform a normal shopping phase (which is absolutely pointless because they are going to have the opportunity to buy from all the cards instead of a limited number of them, the first Act II quest is set up (heroes and monsters are already on the board), Travel happens (which might affect Hero gold). THEN the Act I Monster and Lieutenant cards are replaced (which technically happens after the monster cards have already been placed near the board during quest setup, etc.), THEN the heroes get to purchase from any remaining Act I cards, etc.

To many people, #2 really doesn't seem to make much sense, and #1 only makes a little more sense. Which is why everyone seems to think that what should really be happening is something that isn't actually in the Rules As Written, which is why we are trying to get an official response from FFG as to their intent.

 

Personally, I feel that the Post-Interlude stuff should say "Replace the Shopping step of the Campaign phase that follows the Interlude with these steps:" instead of "Immediately after completing the Interlude, follow these steps:", but if I was to follow RAW, that's not what is happening.

Edited by griton

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