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To add to the topic of all things explosives, I just realized grenades aren't a one use only item. Limited Ammo 1 just means you need to spend a maneuver to draw another one out. So, for 50 credits you get all of the grenades you'll ever use.

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To add to the topic of all things explosives, I just realized grenades aren't a one use only item. Limited Ammo 1 just means you need to spend a maneuver to draw another one out. So, for 50 credits you get all of the grenades you'll ever use.

 

Certainly, if you only go by the first sentence of "Limited Ammo" on page 156 of the EotE CRB. It goes on to say "In addition, each shot expends one of a limited number of rounds of ammo, which must be purchased or otherwise obtained before the weapon can be used. This also applies to grenades and other "one use" weapons which have Limited Ammo 1 quality (here, the user is not "reloading" the grenade, but drawing another to use-but mechanically they are equivalent)"

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To add to the topic of all things explosives, I just realized grenades aren't a one use only item. Limited Ammo 1 just means you need to spend a maneuver to draw another one out. So, for 50 credits you get all of the grenades you'll ever use.

 

Certainly, if you only go by the first sentence of "Limited Ammo" on page 156 of the EotE CRB. It goes on to say "In addition, each shot expends one of a limited number of rounds of ammo, which must be purchased or otherwise obtained before the weapon can be used. This also applies to grenades and other "one use" weapons which have Limited Ammo 1 quality (here, the user is not "reloading" the grenade, but drawing another to use-but mechanically they are equivalent)"

 

BOOM! Lawyer'd. 

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To add to the topic of all things explosives, I just realized grenades aren't a one use only item. Limited Ammo 1 just means you need to spend a maneuver to draw another one out. So, for 50 credits you get all of the grenades you'll ever use.

 

Certainly, if you only go by the first sentence of "Limited Ammo" on page 156 of the EotE CRB. It goes on to say "In addition, each shot expends one of a limited number of rounds of ammo, which must be purchased or otherwise obtained before the weapon can be used. This also applies to grenades and other "one use" weapons which have Limited Ammo 1 quality (here, the user is not "reloading" the grenade, but drawing another to use-but mechanically they are equivalent)"

 

 

If you ask me, that last sentence is what confirmed to me that grenades are not one use weapons. Just like the ammo reloads, you are buying a supply. One Use isn't a game term, which is why it is in quotes. All other game terms are capitalized. If they wanted grenades to be one use only they would've created a One Use rule.

 

I'll send a rules question off and post the response.

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Grenades/Explosives with Limited Ammo 1 are gone when used. Honestly, this is just common sense.

 

Need an example? Glop grenade in Enter the Unknown. No Limited Ammo, but only because if you wanted to take the chance, you can reload the foam into it with a skill check, or purchase more foam for it. In that single instance, is the grenade just a shell. It has specific rules for reuse. I don't see any thing similar for any normal grenades.

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Grenades/Explosives with Limited Ammo 1 are gone when used. Honestly, this is just common sense.

 

Need an example? Glop grenade in Enter the Unknown. No Limited Ammo, but only because if you wanted to take the chance, you can reload the foam into it with a skill check, or purchase more foam for it. In that single instance, is the grenade just a shell. It has specific rules for reuse. I don't see any thing similar for any normal grenades.

There are other exceptions:

 

The Merr-Sonn Munitions, Inc. weapons manufacturer produced a couple of variants of the stun grenade, including the C-10 stun grenade, and the C-14A stun grenade which had the unusual ability to be recharged and reused. - Wookieepedia, Stun Grenade page.

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Jamwes, you seem to be ignoring the key sentence:  "In addition, each shot expends one of a limited number of rounds of ammo, which must be purchased or otherwise obtained before the weapon can be used."

 

 

To me, that sentence is saying that you handle obtaining additional uses narritively. There are plenty of examples of this, which at the surface seems to buck the "common sense" but it's how this narritive system works. Medpacs need to be refilled or ammo runs out, but yet people seem to be ok with these medpacks and ammo reloads lasting forever, unless GM has a reason to restrict usage.

 

I also have a hard time believing that a normal human can only carry 7 grenades before being encumbered. I believe the encumberance cost of 1 is signifying that the character has a few grenades and that they narritively refresh after fights, such as picking them up off of defeated enemies or buying them. I'm not trying to be difficult, I honestly think that this is how RAW is. They wanted speed of play to be high and not bog down players with bookeeping. All that the Limited Ammo rule is saying is that you must spend a maneuver to reload or grab another.

 

How much does an additional shot for a dueling pistol cost? They list a cost for additional arrows for the bow, but leave it up to the GM as to if the purchase is necessary. How about the box of explosive rounds for the sniper rifle from Enter the Unknown? It lasts until you roll an out of ammo result. That could be 2 shots or 200. That doesn't make "common sense" but that's how the narrative system is set up. How much is the ammo for the Flechette Launchers? How much are grenades for the grenade launchers? If you want to play the "common sense" game, I'd say that you can't use a grenade that you're going to throw in a grenade launcher. The the real world shooting and throwing grenades are different. Also, if the grenade launcher is using the normal grenades, then why is it encumberance 5 with limited ammo 6. How much encumberances does the launcher have when empty? -1?

 

It's obvious that this seems to go against "common sense" but I believe this was intended. I believe that they wanted to leave it loose enough that the GM could flavor grenades and the like for how they want their game to work. If they want the bookeeping of tracking ammo, then they can be strict on the "must be purchased or otherwise obtained" or if they want a fun cinimatic game they can be looser on what encumberance 1 means for the grenades. I believe that if they wanted grenades to be one use only they would've specifically called them out as one use, just like stimpacks.

 

I've already put in the question to the rules team. I'll post what the response is.

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Ok if you want to think about it encumbrance-wise, consider this: a blaster pistol is about the same general size as a grenade. They are both encumbrance one. Now, if buying a grenade gets you essentially unlimited grenades, don't you think that's be much more than encumbrance one? Where are you keeping these dozens of grenades all over your body?

 

Another thing is price. A frag grenade is 50 credits. That is incredibly cheap for a damage 8 weapon that can be used over and over, even if it is limited to Short range and takes a maneuver each turn to re-draw. A regular blaster pistol is 400 credits, at damage 6, with a Medium range. I think arguing that buying one grenade for 50 credits gives you many uses is incredibly exploitative, and as a GM would absolutely rule against it.

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@Jamwes If you have a character that throws a knife at his opponent would you allow him to just pull infinite knives until he rolls an out of ammo result?  Of course not.  The Limited Ammo quality on grenades is to keep players from retrieving grenades and reusing them like they would do with said knife.  You can throw as many knives as you had purchased for your character and after each battle retrieve the knives you have thrown.  You can also throw as many grenades as you had purchased for your character but since they have Limited Ammo 1 you can't retrieve them from reuse because they have expended their 1 shot.  

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This is, I think, one of the instances that the plain meaning of the text is getting a little garbled by the reader's interpretation. It happens a lot. I've been guilty of doing it, specifically with the Pierce & Breach qualities :) but usually when the vast majority of people interpret a certain block of text one way, you'll find that the majority is correct. Not always, but usually.

Another good rule of thumb is that the simplest way of interpreting the rules is the correct (intended) way. And often, it is good to take the passage/book as a whole into consideration when interpreting one block of text.

Still, even after all this is taken into consideration, we can arrive at disparate conclusions :) it'll be good to put the matter to bed with the answer from FFG, but still of course GMs are encouraged to run the game as they see fit in order to give their players, and themselves, the maximum amount of fun possible.

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I have received my response and just like all of you have assumed, I was wrong. Personally, I would've apreciated a "One Use" special rule or something in the description of the weapon calling it a "One Use" item. How are we to know which items are intended to be "One Use" and which ones are not. Sure, grenades are an extreme example, but there are other weapons which are not so clear. If one is to buy the ammo for a Dueling Pistol for each shot, then how much does that cost? I feel that the Limited Ammo rule isn't clear as written, especially when items exist which never need to be refilled or generate an item every encounter. (I'm looking at you Medpack and ammo reloads.) They tried to gloss over ammo so much for guns that the rules for weapons where you actually have to track ammo are confusing and have holes. Which weapons do you have to buy ammo for? How much does ammo cost? How often do you need to buy it?

 

That being said, I think our grenadier will be asking our GM for a grenade launcher even though he doesn't know Ranged Heavy just so he can carry 6 grenades for 5 encumberance.

 

My Question:

Are grenades "one use" only and you have to pay 50 credits for each frag grenade or do you have a supply?

My current understanding of the Limited Ammo rule is that when I purchase a frag grenade for 50 credits I'm purchasing a supply which requires a maneuver to draw out a new one after I've used the last one.

 

Sam's Answer:
Each grenade explodes after using them. When you purchase a frag grenade for 50 credits, you're purchasing a single grenade. If you're planning on throwing more than one, you'll need to purchase more than one.

Hope this helps!

Sam Stewart
Senior RPG Producer
Fantasy Flight Games

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That being said, I think our grenadier will be asking our GM for a grenade launcher even though he doesn't know Ranged Heavy just so he can carry 6 grenades for 5 encumberance.

Think you're better off just sticking to 6 grenades. When you extract a grenade from that encumbrance 5 weapon, you've got an extra point of encumbrance in your hand due to the grenade. And even when empty, the launcher would stay at 5 encumbrance.

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That being said, I think our grenadier will be asking our GM for a grenade launcher even though he doesn't know Ranged Heavy just so he can carry 6 grenades for 5 encumberance.

Think you're better off just sticking to 6 grenades. When you extract a grenade from that encumbrance 5 weapon, you've got an extra point of encumbrance in your hand due to the grenade. And even when empty, the launcher would stay at 5 encumbrance.

 

Also, IIRC DC says hand grenades and launch grenades are not the same thing, and are not interchangeable.

 

Though I know a lot of people just assume they are the same thing, for some odd reason...

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That being said, I think our grenadier will be asking our GM for a grenade launcher even though he doesn't know Ranged Heavy just so he can carry 6 grenades for 5 encumberance.

Think you're better off just sticking to 6 grenades. When you extract a grenade from that encumbrance 5 weapon, you've got an extra point of encumbrance in your hand due to the grenade. And even when empty, the launcher would stay at 5 encumbrance.

Also, IIRC DC says hand grenades and launch grenades are not the same thing, and are not interchangeable.

 

Though I know a lot of people just assume they are the same thing, for some odd reason...

Well, this is the game where specialty arrows make a bow use an entirely different skill set.

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My Question:

Are grenades "one use" only and you have to pay 50 credits for each frag grenade or do you have a supply?

My current understanding of the Limited Ammo rule is that when I purchase a frag grenade for 50 credits I'm purchasing a supply which requires a maneuver to draw out a new one after I've used the last one.

Sam's Answer:

Each grenade explodes after using them. When you purchase a frag grenade for 50 credits, you're purchasing a single grenade. If you're planning on throwing more than one, you'll need to purchase more than one.

Hope this helps!

Sam Stewart

Senior RPG Producer

Fantasy Flight Games

This was what prompted my extra reloads question.

Edited by CrunchyDemon

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Sweet! Now ask them about "extra reloads", if it's a one-use-per-purchase thing or reusable!

 

IIRC from previous conversations, it's reusable all the time until the end of time. Which is something the more "realistic" GMs have an issue with and typically limit it to one use only or once per encounter. However, Extra Reloads is just like the talent Spare Clip except it costs you money and Encumberance.

 

The way I look at it making sense is this. Extra Reloads costs 1 point of Encumberance. That's pretty heavy for a single extra magazine, power pack, or whatever. The intent of Extra Reloads is that you're carrying a bunch of extra ammo and the characters are always refilling their supply. Game time is simply being saved by not having to track ammo.

 

Since you always reload an empty gun after every encounter, think of it this way. Extra Reloads is carrying ammo in a place where the character can easily grab it during a fight. When they aren't carrying Extra Reloads then their ammo is some place where they have to go digging for it, such as at the bottom of their backpack, and don't have time to do it during a fight.

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Sweet! Now ask them about "extra reloads", if it's a one-use-per-purchase thing or reusable!

 

IIRC from previous conversations, it's reusable all the time until the end of time. Which is something the more "realistic" GMs have an issue with and typically limit it to one use only or once per encounter. However, Extra Reloads is just like the talent Spare Clip except it costs you money and Encumberance.

 

The way I look at it making sense is this. Extra Reloads costs 1 point of Encumberance. That's pretty heavy for a single extra magazine, power pack, or whatever. The intent of Extra Reloads is that you're carrying a bunch of extra ammo and the characters are always refilling their supply. Game time is simply being saved by not having to track ammo.

 

Since you always reload an empty gun after every encounter, think of it this way. Extra Reloads is carrying ammo in a place where the character can easily grab it during a fight. When they aren't carrying Extra Reloads then their ammo is some place where they have to go digging for it, such as at the bottom of their backpack, and don't have time to do it during a fight.

 

Extra Reloads also cost a maneuver to use while Spare Clip (the talent) does not.

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That being said, I think our grenadier will be asking our GM for a grenade launcher even though he doesn't know Ranged Heavy just so he can carry 6 grenades for 5 encumberance.

Think you're better off just sticking to 6 grenades. When you extract a grenade from that encumbrance 5 weapon, you've got an extra point of encumbrance in your hand due to the grenade. And even when empty, the launcher would stay at 5 encumbrance.

Also, IIRC DC says hand grenades and launch grenades are not the same thing, and are not interchangeable.

 

Though I know a lot of people just assume they are the same thing, for some odd reason...

Well, this is the game where specialty arrows make a bow use an entirely different skill set.

 

Sam Stewart gave an explanation for this on the last Order 66, actually. His reasoning was that with a normal broadhead, you need all the strength to make the arrow actually penetrate the target, whereas with a shockpad or explosive on the end of an arrow it just needs to touch the target. He also admitted that this was kind of flimsy and recommended making a new Ranged (Bow) skill for anyone who was really serious about using the bow.

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Glop Grenade

 
Skill: Ranged (light)
Damage: None
Crit: None
Range: Short
Encum: 1
Hard Points: 0
Price: 100
Rarity: 6
Special: Blast -, Ensnare 3
 
Notes: Glop grenades can either be timer based or set off by hitting something/someone. When they are triggered they shoot out a foam entrapping the person. It sprays out in a broad area the harden foam is only good for about 5 minutes.

 

Does the Ensnare quality need to be activated with Advantage?

 

I don't think so, since it does no damage.  It should do something for success after all.

 

However, when you miss, and you activate the Blast for 3 Advantage, do you need to activate Ensnare for 2 more?

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