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Punning Pundit

No Star Destroyers, Please

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We will definately have a Star Destroyer because of this statement alone:

"In the end, we decided these ships were simply too iconic and exciting to ignore, and we invented a new “relative” scale..."

I've seen people try to make this claim before. But it's about as valid as saying they won't make one because my left sock is black... the relative scale allowed them to break with the 1/270 scale used for star ships. It does not mean that they're working on ISD's.

What you have here is the Association fallacy. The fact that they were willing to break scale to put in a GR-75 and CR-90 is not proof that they're working on a ISD. Keep in mind, up to that point we didn't think they'd ever include anything larger then the YT-1300 because they said they wouldn't.

The reasons why a ISD isn't feasible for this game have been gone over and over again in this thread alone.

Edited by VanorDM

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I'm not about to read this whole thread, but i will chime in.. As long as big ships don't get into competitive play, that's cool. Do what you want.

I really don't want to have to buy one for certain cards.

 

 

Ha! You know that's exactly what's going to happen :)

 

If they make one, yeah. It's a large part of why I care whether they make it or not.

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You're are perfectly entitled to have your arguments regarding why FFG should not make one. The fact remains that FFG stated the Rebel huge ships were too iconic to ignore as would be a Star Destroyer. How it should be done is not up to any of us.

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How it should be done is not up to any of us.

As a customer I have every right to express my opinion on how it should be done.

They never actually mentioned a Star Destroyer in that clip, not once. So to assume that because they broke scale to make the CR-90 means they'll further break it to make the ISD is as I said a logical fallacy.

Of course all of this is really just a way for most of us to avoid doing work... What ever Huge ship FFG does Imp side is most likely already in the prototype step, and this discussion will little to no impact on what they end up doing.

The difference is now, we actually know how the Epic Ship rules will work, which really does seem to point at a ISD as not happening.

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How it should be done is not up to any of us.

As a customer I have every right to express my opinion on how it should be done.

You're twisting my words. I did not say that you couldn't have your opinion on how it should be done. I said we do not get to decide how it's done.

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I did not say that you couldn't have your opinion on how it should be done. I said we do not get to decide how it's done.

Maybe, maybe not. It's completely possible that FFG has seen these debates and have taken them into consideration on what they'll make next.

Perhaps the reasons myself and others have listed for why it's a bad idea have been read and FFG won't produce a ISD because they see the merit of our arguments... Or even just know that if people like us say we won't buy them, then that means they won't sell well.

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We will definately have a Star Destroyer because of this statement alone:

"In the end, we decided these ships were simply too iconic and exciting to ignore, and we invented a new “relative” scale..."

FFG statement from the announcement of the Rebel Transport and Tantive IV here:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4312

I can't think of a more iconic ship in the Imperial fleet than the Star Destroyer. Fortunately, I'm not involved in the design process :).

My guess is an announcement at Gencon 2014 with a release date around christmas. Would make perfect sense.

 

So they strayed outside of the 1/270 scale for the epic ships. I am betting their relative scale applies to all epic ships and even a Victory Class Star Destroyer is ginormous compared to a corvette. 

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"If you build it, they will come."

 

The fact of the matter is that while many people may not want to buy a Star Destroyer based on the scale of this game, many WILL.  And that means that regardless of how those naysayers feel, in the grand scheme of things, no matter how broken the mechanic, I imagine FFG will have no problem selling them.

 

Do I think it's the right thing for this game?  No.

 

Would I buy 2 or 3 of them?  Hell yeah.  I'd buy them just for the sake of playing the Imperial March at full volume and making "Pew Pew" noises as I chase my Tantive IV all over my house.

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And that means that regardless of how those naysayers feel, in the grand scheme of things, no matter how broken the mechanic, I imagine FFG will have no problem selling them.

If the most hardcore of us won't buy them, who else is? Especially if you're looking at spending $175 on a model that doesn't even really work well on a 3x6 foot table?

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"If you build it, they will come."

 

The fact of the matter is that while many people may not want to buy a Star Destroyer based on the scale of this game, many WILL.  And that means that regardless of how those naysayers feel, in the grand scheme of things, no matter how broken the mechanic, I imagine FFG will have no problem selling them.

 

Do I think it's the right thing for this game?  No.

 

Would I buy 2 or 3 of them?  Hell yeah.  I'd buy them just for the sake of playing the Imperial March at full volume and making "Pew Pew" noises as I chase my Tantive IV all over my house.

Is playing the Imperial March and making Pew Pew sounds for those 2-3 ISDs worth $500-800 as others have suggested?

 

Edit:

I don't know about you guys, but I left GW because of these constantly escalating prices. The models are amazing dont get me wrong, but my wallet has limits and XWMG has replaced that.

 

This Catachan Imperial Guardsman abandoned his service of the greedy Emperor of Games Workshop in favor of serving the more generous Emperor Palpatine of XWMG.

Edited by catachan23

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"If you build it, they will come."

 

The fact of the matter is that while many people may not want to buy a Star Destroyer based on the scale of this game, many WILL.  And that means that regardless of how those naysayers feel, in the grand scheme of things, no matter how broken the mechanic, I imagine FFG will have no problem selling them.

 

Do I think it's the right thing for this game?  No.

 

Would I buy 2 or 3 of them?  Hell yeah.  I'd buy them just for the sake of playing the Imperial March at full volume and making "Pew Pew" noises as I chase my Tantive IV all over my house.

Is playing the Imperial March and making Pew Pew sounds for those 2-3 ISDs worth $500-800 as others have suggested?

 

Edit:

I don't know about you guys, but I left GW because of these constantly escalating prices. The models are amazing dont get me wrong, but my wallet has limits and XWMG has replaced that.

 

This Catachan Imperial Guardsman abandoned his service of the greedy Emperor of Games Workshop in favor of serving the more generous Emperor Palpatine of XWMG.

 

 

That can't be speculated prices. Ballpark of how much money these ships will cost?

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My final thought on this whole thing.  Some of you mentioned $150 for pricing on one of these.  Honestly who knows how much they will be priced at?  Not. A. Single. One. Of. You.

 

There has been no announcement made one way or another, and no announcement as to how much IF they do release one these will cost.

 

So, this is all speculation, and bad speculation at that.

 

And @Vanor DM - like I said before.  You speak for you, and you only.  You say that "If the most hardcore of us won't buy them, who else is?"  PLENTY of people here have expressed an interest, and I don't see them as being less hardcore a fan than you.

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*Ahem* I have a completely ludicrous, unheard of, radical idea here:

Why don't we stop arguing and trust in the Force FFG to do what they feel is right. If they found a way to put the ISD in the game, more power to them. If not, they have a good reason why they didn't.

Because people who admit to wanting a Star Destroyer are treated like idiots or criminals when they express that they do. So much as saying I want one gets people jumping down your throat. It's like everyone saying Nay is afraid FFG will force them to buy one.

But my points have been made. The people who say nay continue to claim any number of difficulties as reasons not to make one instead of as obstacles to overcome on the part of FFG. I trust FFG. I trust my own intuition on the viability. And I will pay if the product gets me excited enough. Same as just about everyone here, when it proves that FFG knows what they are doing and can make a playable product. This happens in every game community. It's depressing how often people look for reasons not to do something cool that doesn't hurt anybody. And depressing how many people seem physically hurt by the potential for a Star Destroyer. I just don't see what could possibly be so awful. Worst case. It's overpowered. Second worst case it's underpowered to the point of unplayability. Neither one makes owning a 2 foot long model of a Star Destroyer not worth the cost on its own.

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I must admit that I am one who would be really hurt if the ISD gets put into the game. I also believe that FFG will not make one if they feel the same way many of us do. I am not a game designer, I am not in charge; however, enough of us have expressed displeasure that I am sure at least SOME of the game designers feel the same way. Whether or not this means it will never be released depends on if they find a way to properly represent this massive juggernaut. Either way, I will still be happy with the overall game even if I do not appreciate the way a single ship was added.

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I must admit that I am one who would be really hurt if the ISD gets put into the game. I also believe that FFG will not make one if they feel the same way many of us do. I am not a game designer, I am not in charge; however, enough of us have expressed displeasure that I am sure at least SOME of the game designers feel the same way. Whether or not this means it will never be released depends on if they find a way to properly represent this massive juggernaut. Either way, I will still be happy with the overall game even if I do not appreciate the way a single ship was added.

Explain to me why it would hurt so bad. The idea is foreign to me. That something added to a Hobby can hurt you so bad. Especially after all the relatively bad things that have happened in Star Wars. I mean, does it really register compared to the Christmas Special. Or Chewie's death. I get how the death of a beloved character causes pain. I get how bad writing causes pain. Hell, I get how bad game design can hurt. But if it's well designed, and fun. How does it hurt you?

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Part of it in my opinion comes from the fact that its size and power is what makes it so iconic, not just the looks: the first impression you get from ANH is "oh that's a cool ship" as the CR-90 races across the screen; and then, you are confronted with the Imperial Star Destroyer, a ship that makes the corvette seem like an insignificant ant. Then it puts the corvette inside—INSIDE—its hangar and it makes sense why NOBODY dared challenge the Empire. Even Admiral Ackbar acknowledges the power of the Star Destroyer ("our shields won't last long against firepower of that magnitude"). You never, ever see any Star Destroyer (other than the Executor, which was destroyed more for story purposes than anything else) get destroyed by the Rebellion.

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For those that think the ISD would be too over powered, I remember reading somewhere in the EU the the Rebels used to call them "1000 and 1 design flaws waiting to be exploited". Quite honestly, if you haven't personally been responsible for destroying an ISD in the EU, then you haven't been accepted as a major character.

I would love to own a group of ISDs, except for the fact that a single A Wing could bring one down...

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 Hell, I get how bad game design can hurt. But if it's well designed, and fun. How does it hurt you?

 

The argument is that an ISD that fits on a game table cannot be well designed, period. It fitting on the table makes it poorly designed since, as mentioned by Revanchist, the immense size is part of the appeal.

 

Similarly, anything balanced for play at ~300 points isn't going to be well designed either, since an ISD is supposed to have something like 1100 points of TIEs on board, ready to launch, and that's not counting the tractor beams, turbolasers, etc. Again, that immense threat is why the ISDs are so evocative.

 

You can put lipstick on a pig, and racing stripes on a Yugo, but neither would be any fun. 

 

As for the players who just want an OP beatstick I-WIN button, I don't think that they are good for the game.

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Hell, I get how bad game design can hurt. But if it's well designed, and fun. How does it hurt you?

 

The argument is that an ISD that fits on a game table cannot be well designed, period. It fitting on the table makes it poorly designed since, as mentioned by Revanchist, the immense size is part of the appeal.

 

Similarly, anything balanced for play at ~300 points isn't going to be well designed either, since an ISD is supposed to have something like 1100 points of TIEs on board, ready to launch, and that's not counting the tractor beams, turbolasers, etc. Again, that immense threat is why the ISDs are so evocative.

 

You can put lipstick on a pig, and racing stripes on a Yugo, but neither would be any fun. 

 

As for the players who just want an OP beatstick I-WIN button, I don't think that they are good for the game.

Shouldn't there be some level oft if it's well done that's ok?

I get that people don't feel it can feel big fitting on the table. I don't buy that. It's possible that FFG can't manage to balance, or to manage an effective Price Tag. But the scale of the ship... It always has, and always will feel like an excuse not to try so nobody can be dissapointed.

Beyond that, if you label it Victory Class it looks exactly the same, but should not be able to swallow a Corvette Whole to begin with.

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Beyond that, if you label it Victory Class it looks exactly the same, but should not be able to swallow a Corvette Whole to begin with.

Not quite the same, the Victory was a bit stockier and had "winglets." IMO, if they really want to bring in an ISD like ship, they should bring in this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vindicator-class_heavy_cruiser

About a third as long as the ISD, and it could have components that transform it into the Immobilizer-418. It would be pushing it, but not as badly as the ISD.

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Part of it in my opinion comes from the fact that its size and power is what makes it so iconic, not just the looks: the first impression you get from ANH is "oh that's a cool ship" as the CR-90 races across the screen; and then, you are confronted with the Imperial Star Destroyer, a ship that makes the corvette seem like an insignificant ant. Then it puts the corvette inside—INSIDE—its hangar and it makes sense why NOBODY dared challenge the Empire. Even Admiral Ackbar acknowledges the power of the Star Destroyer ("our shields won't last long against firepower of that magnitude"). You never, ever see any Star Destroyer (other than the Executor, which was destroyed more for story purposes than anything else) get destroyed by the Rebellion.

Actually the only capital ship that is destroyed in normal ship to ship combat on screen are Star Destroyers. Both occur in the Battle of Endor. One is an ISD in the background. The other is the more famous Executor crash scene. I'm not counting the Mon Cals lost to the Death Star just because the Death Star can destroy any Capital Ship and it wasn't really taking part in the brawl other than sending stand off shots (i.e. not trading blows in the conventional sense).

 

-Edit- please understand that what I mean "destroyed" as is a ship blowing up onscreen from similar analogues like capital ships and starfighters.

Edited by SpaceDingo

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I once pulled an entire Star Destroyer into a planet, using nothing but my bare hands... and the Force. It was Unleashed.

 

True story.

"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant when compared to the power of the Force."

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