Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Norsehound

What would a TIE Avenger look like?

Recommended Posts

 

tie avanger flown by marek stelee who was KNOWN for firing PROTON ROCKETS  in POINT BLANK RANGE  at big ships so we will see it coming to this game dfinetly cause we have HUGE SHIPS  right now ;P and the so called proton rockets. the stats of the avanger would be.

 

A/D/H/S

3/3/3/2 interceptor like dial with a slight touch of the advance.

 

3 attack cause of the quad lasers

 

Yes, I'd also go for:

 

3-3-3-2 or 3-3-2-3

Missile Slot, Beam Weapon slot.

Focus, TL, Evade, BR

 

 

I like this.   I think the dial for the TIE Avenger should be an unstable version of a TIE Interceptor dial.  Change alot of those green  |» manuvers too white and make the  ^ 5 be green maybe give it a green ^ 6.   Maybe give it a new ability called loop.  Move forward like normal but at the end of its attack move backwards by 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that's making up too many special rules for the sake of one ship.

A TIE advanced with +1 attack, an interceptor dial (probably slightly worse), and perhaps a system upgrade would be awesome. I would field that all day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I seem to recall a lot of people being convinced there was no design space for the Defender without adding some new kind of dice.

They thought you couldn't put the Defender in without making it its own private mechanic? The Defender's a super-heavy TIE. FFG had loads of upwards space for the Imperials and thus a lot of freedom with the Defender and I think they did a good job.

The Avenger, however, is canonically between the TIE Defender and the TIE Advanced x1. That's very limiting. What can you do with it while still being roughly true to its canonical role? A lot of people's ideas already exist: take an Advanced with Interceptor dial and +1 attack? That's a TIE interceptor with both HP upgrades, pretty much.

 

A TIE advanced with +1 attack, an interceptor dial (probably slightly worse), and perhaps a system upgrade would be awesome. I would field that all day.

Sounds like the E-wing to me. Also, why would the Avenger have Sys Upgrade and the Defender not? On the two small ships it's on (E-wing and B-wing) it indicates advanced experimental technology. The Avenger is lower tech than the Defender.

What could the Avenger actually do better than other ships? What would its role be while remaining true to it lying between Defender and x1?

Edited by Lagomorphia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think they're going to do the Avenger. It lies between the Advanced and Defender and there's no design space there. That, and they've kind of pooled the Avenger's stuff into their depiction of the TIE advanced x1. Note only Vader's ship has the name of that model (TIE advanced x1) and the others have the Avenger's name (TIE advanced).

I strongly agree with this. The Advanced is 2/3/3/2 and the Defender is 3/3/3/3, and it's going to be really hard to find a way to situate a unique and interesting ship between those two positions.

Honestly, I think the TIE Defender's stats are solid evidence that we're not getting a TIE Avenger.

This seems to be a poor argument to me.

The difference between a TIE Interceptor and a TIE fighter is +1 Attack and a better dial.

And no one complains that they are too similar to be worth having both.

So a theoretical TIE Avenger could be exactly the same difference from the Advanced and still be worthwhile. Give it +1 Attack and a somewhat better dial. And you have a slightly different ship that will play as differently from the Advanced as the Interceptor does from the Fighter.

How is that not enough design space?

The TIE fighter is a cheap swarmer that makes up for its fraily with numbers. The Interceptor is a highly maneuverable arc-dodger that makes up for its frailty by not getting shot in the first place. The Defender is a high speed heavy jouster than has turning issues. None are just scalings of the other. FFG doesn't like minor tweaks, they like each ship to have its own playstyle and so far they all do. What is the Avenger's niche?

You say that a 3/3/3/2 Advanced with a better dial is a ship in its own right. Which dial? Give it a Defender type dial and it's a Defender that's been hit. Give it an Interceptor dial and you've just got a Royal Guard TIE with Hull and Shield upgrades, pretty much.

If it has a dial similar to an interceptor dial with less green and more whites and Boost and target lock without BR or evade and a missle slot it's a completely different ship then the interceptor. (Less maneuverability and missle platform) And completely different then a defender which Seems to be a hit and run joust ship with major upgrade potential. It is however a similar role to the advanced which design wise it was. However the loss of BR and evade make the advanced more defensive but less offensive then the proposed avenger (Not even including the beam weapon.) cost wise an avenger should be similar to an interceptor and with the above proposal every ship still has a role.

What I really want to see is ffg making the avenger 3-3-2-2 and cost 16 points for a ps1 pilot with a dial similar to the advanced with focus target lock and BR and a missle slot. Making the advanced defense edge more pronounced, the interceptor more manuerable and the avenger becomes a great 5x swarm w missles or 6x swarm.

Vadar is NOT a tie advanced his ship title is advanced x1 and is a different ship then a normal tie advanced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
avenger 3-3-2-2 and cost 16 points

Cheaper than the base interceptor and significantly cheaper than the Advanced x1? Cheaper than the A-wing?

 

Vadar is NOT a tie advanced his ship title is advanced x1 and is a different ship then a normal tie advanced.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but look at Vader's card, at the ship name. Then look at Maarek, Storm Squadron and Tempest Squadron. FFG might just disagree with you there.

 

What I really want to see is ffg making the avenger 3-3-2-2 and cost 16 points for a ps1 pilot with a dial similar to the advanced with focus target lock and BR and a missle slot.

LodF6z0.png

Edited by Lagomorphia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not the same as an Interceptor with two shield upgrades (which is impossible by the way)

1. It can have a PS1-4 pilot (interceptors only get double mods on 5+)

2. It has a missile slot

3. It has modifications and titles available

4. The dial can be significantly different and still good

If you don't want it or think there's space for it, then so be it. There's no point trying to argue with you. But there is enough different to make it worthwhile - not to mention the many people who do want to see it regardless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is not the same as an Interceptor with two shield upgrades (which is impossible by the way)

I said Hull and Shield. The missile slot I did forget out, however.

You say a significantly different dial to both the Interceptor and the Advanced. Which dial?

Yes, they could make a tougher interceptor with a rocket slot. They could have done that with the Defender too. They didn't, and thus they probably won't make a tougher interceptor or a higher firepower Advanced or a squishier Defender. Not as a ship in its own blister.

The game has plenty of design space left. Tons of it. But I don't think there's enough design space between the Advanced, the Interceptor and the Defender. Unless the TIE avenger has its own part to play, they won't make it any time soon, just as I doubt the Outrider if and when it shows its face is going to be a baby Falcon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that's making up too many special rules for the sake of one ship.

A TIE advanced with +1 attack, an interceptor dial (probably slightly worse), and perhaps a system upgrade would be awesome. I would field that all day.

 

I don't know...  In the past I was told ether ships will never get one ship type only upgrade and that new abilities would not be made.  This was before the creation of the Royal Guard TIE Interceptor, A-Wing Test pilot, TIE Phantoms with the new cloaking ability (with additional cloaking upgrade cards,) and the creation of the Large two base ships with a bunch of new abilities.

 

Also we do see some of these new abilities come out as EPT and mod cards, the loop ability can be a ability alot of ships can buy later.

 

 

A TIE advanced with +1 attack, an interceptor dial (probably slightly worse), and perhaps a system upgrade would be awesome. I would field that all day.

 

Sounds like the E-wing to me. Also, why would the Avenger have Sys Upgrade and the Defender not? On the two small ships it's on (E-wing and B-wing) it indicates advanced experimental technology. The Avenger is lower tech than the Defender.

What could the Avenger actually do better than other ships? What would its role be while remaining true to it lying between Defender and x1?

 

 

In regards to a Avenger vs Defender the Avenger is smaller and doesnt have a blind spot at 6 high.  Basically what some of us have said and agread on dial wise would work well.  I am also ok with the "loop" ability it would come with which would make Rebs think twice about jousting at max range. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The game has plenty of design space left. Tons of it. But I don't think there's enough design space between the Advanced, the Interceptor and the Defender. Unless the TIE avenger has its own part to play, they won't make it any time soon, just as I doubt the Outrider if and when it shows its face is going to be a baby Falcon.

 

 

The Empire still doesn't have a Fighter with a systems slot... For example. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game has plenty of design space left. Tons of it. But I don't think there's enough design space between the Advanced, the Interceptor and the Defender. Unless the TIE avenger has its own part to play, they won't make it any time soon, just as I doubt the Outrider if and when it shows its face is going to be a baby Falcon.

 

The Empire still doesn't have a Fighter with a systems slot... For example.

Phantom says hi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then how is it distinct from the Defender beyond being weaker?

 

Its not a big target and doesn't have a major blind spot.  It's these two factors that have made high manuverability fighter dangerous too the TIE Defender.  The A-Wing, TIE Avenger, and TIE Interceptor is a good example.  Baron Fel took on the most advanced TIE Defender known as Red Star 1 and killed it with a TIE Interceptor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

They thought you couldn't put the Defender in without making it its own private mechanic? The Defender's a super-heavy TIE. FFG had loads of upwards space for the Imperials and thus a lot of freedom with the Defender and I think they did a good job.ying between Defender and x1?

 

 

Some people thought new ships could not be designed after Wave 3 without adding a new type of attack die, and I believe it was speculation about the Defender's stats that started that line of thought. Since then, all of Wave 4 and two Huge ships have managed to do so.

 

Generally it's a bad idea to make any argument from incredulity. Just because you can't imagine how to do it does not mean the game designers can't imagine a way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Then how is it distinct from the Defender beyond being weaker?

 

Its not a big target and doesn't have a major blind spot.  It's these two factors that have made high manuverability fighter dangerous too the TIE Defender.  The A-Wing, TIE Avenger, and TIE Interceptor is a good example.  Baron Fel took on the most advanced TIE Defender known as Red Star 1 and killed it with a TIE Interceptor.

 

 

I'm talking X-wing here, not the TIE fighter video game. TIE fighter overblew the Defender so much that pretty much every other source to touch it has tried to nerf it into the dust to make it sensible. The Avenger's never strayed outside TIE fighter and thus never got the same treatment.

 

Generally it's a bad idea to make any argument from incredulity. Just because you can't imagine how to do it does not mean the game designers can't imagine a way.

It's indeed possible that I've missed something. However, comparing it to this silly assertion that apparently was going around that the entire game needed a new attack die to expand is something of a jump. The game has pretty much infinite space to expand. The slot the Avenger goes in is between three ships that have already had their mechanics designed and there isn't much room between them. Interpolate and you get a scaled up or scaled down version of a previous ship which isn't in keeping with FFG's design philosophy. Unless they redesign the Avenger's role, which they could well do, or abandon their current stance of every ship having a unique role, which they could also do, then I don't think it's likely we'll see it as anything other than an Advanced title.

Edited by Lagomorphia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

tie avanger flown by marek stelee who was KNOWN for firing PROTON ROCKETS  in POINT BLANK RANGE  at big ships so we will see it coming to this game dfinetly cause we have HUGE SHIPS  right now ;P and the so called proton rockets. the stats of the avanger would be.

 

A/D/H/S

3/3/3/2 interceptor like dial with a slight touch of the advance.

 

3 attack cause of the quad lasers

 

Yes, I'd also go for:

 

3-3-3-2 or 3-3-2-3

Missile Slot, Beam Weapon slot.

Focus, TL, Evade, BR

 

yeah i forgot about the other thigns it could upgrade and abilities but 3/3/3/2 is msot fitting for it with downgrade interceptor dial ,p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WE NEED THE TIE AVANGER !! JUST HIT THE **** SEARHC BUTTON PUT IN TIE AVANGER AND SEE HOW MANY HIT RESULTS U GET IN THIS FORUM ABOUT THAT THING + HOW MANY WANTS HIM PLAYABLE !!! :angry:

 

besides giving him a downgraded interceptor dial is good enough its a joke that the advanced cant do a 1 turn !! i mean come on how did marek stele managed to shoot proton rockets in point blank range then ?. but it can do 1 green banks what the regular tie and interceptor cant perform cause those ties are to fast to do so well ok but why cant that motherfker do a 1 green forward ? just sayin i really hate the dial of the advanced its just a piece of trash on its own.

 

i would be ultimativly upset if they come up with a title card called tie avanger that grands a +1 attack for 0 points just sayin that would be the reason to quit this game for me then ;P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A bottom line here is making an Advanced that people would want to fly. TIE Defenders are expensive and tricky to fly with the common 1-2 turns being red. The TIE Advanced has a weak attack, an unspectacular dial compared to other TIEs, and is generally perceived as overcosted.

 

So in that gap could go the TIE Avenger. Something like a speedier X-Wing that trades in hull resiliency to maneuver like a TIE Interceptor. Unfortunately right now, the fighter that looks like that could be the E-Wing! How much different would it be for a ship with E-Wing stats to run different upgrade items, with different actions on the bar, and having a different range of pilot skills and aces?

 

I think the need is there. Interceptors can be fantastic but one whiff and it's pretty much over. For a few points extra I would like to see a fighter that is more forgiving with resiliency but is still as fun to fly as a TIE Interceptor. The Defender doesn't look like like it could do this, but an Avenger could.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An alternate argument for Avengers could go like this:

Is there room for more unique pilots (and even non-unique ones) on existing ships?

The answer is yes. Imperial (and soon rebel) Aces both show this to be the case. There is nearly infinite design space for unique pilot abilities.

So. Then. Assuming that the only difference between the Avenger and Interceptor is two shields, would a unique interceptor pilot that somehow gained two shields at the start of the game be worth printing (priced accordingly)? Of course it would be worth printing.

So. Now we can see, there is plenty of space for the avenger. Because the differences are far greater than those added by extra pilots. And FFG has demonstrated their willingness to do that.

Edited by AndOne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again: The difference is in the beam weapon.

At the end it depends on how FFG intend to develop the 2 fractions. Will they come closer together (for balancing reasons) or will there be exclusive equipment for a fraction:

 

Will the rebels get a ship with a bomb slot? Will the imperials get a ship with a turret?

 

Right now (and with the upcomming waves) the rebels have far more possibilities to cusomize their ships: droids and more crew to choose of.

 

Is FFG willed to give the imperials a new exclusive equipment?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They would most likely give you a standard TIE Advanced with some new paintjob, then give you a title card that says "TIE Avenger", and most likely pack it together with the Ywing as the "Yavin Aces"

 

Duraham nailed this in the very first reply to this thread. And Maarek Stele as a Tie Advanced pilot pretty much a confirms that FFG considers Advanced and Avenger to be the same ship. Quad cannons? That's what the Title-card will say. Done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Title" upgrade card for TIE Advanced would be ok. I think. Just give it a +1 attack (for 2-3 points) and it will be playable again. No need for dial changes etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Title" upgrade card for TIE Advanced would be ok. I think. Just give it a +1 attack (for 2-3 points) and it will be playable again. No need for dial changes etc.

 

what the fk ure talkin about it seems u never flew the advance then otherwise u never would have crap posted this as ure first post !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

"Title" upgrade card for TIE Advanced would be ok. I think. Just give it a +1 attack (for 2-3 points) and it will be playable again. No need for dial changes etc.

 

what the fk ure talkin about it seems u never flew the advance then otherwise u never would have crap posted this as ure first post !!!

 

WOW!! Thanks for your warm welcome.

 

Well in (computer) game's I have played Avenger was exact match to x-wing. In FP in shields etc. This is why I would only change this one thing. Or maybe give it +1 FP -1Agi. Tractor beam is good idea but in this case some other ships should have access to it also like TIE Defender.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
what the fk ure talkin about it seems u never flew the advance then otherwise u never would have crap posted this as ure first post !!!

Charmed. He's actually probably right: there's a lot of evidence that FFG doesn't or at least didn't elect to differentiate between the Avenger and Advanced x1. Look at the name on Vader's ship card, then look at the one on Maarek's.

 

come on how did marek stele managed to shoot proton rockets in point blank range then

Are you attempting to say it's impossible to shoot something at Range 1 with a secondary weapon without a 1 turn?

 

So. Now we can see, there is plenty of space for the avenger. Because the differences are far greater than those added by extra pilots. And FFG has demonstrated their willingness to do that.

But that's an interceptor. A shielded interceptor is not an Avenger. While I'm fairly confident that the Avenger's not going to show as a new ship and if it does it'll do something nobody's thought of yet, I'm practically willing to bet money that it won't be an Interceptor with shields.

 

A bottom line here is making an Advanced that people would want to fly. TIE Defenders are expensive and tricky to fly with the common 1-2 turns being red. The TIE Advanced has a weak attack, an unspectacular dial compared to other TIEs, and is generally perceived as overcosted.

 

So in that gap could go the TIE Avenger. Something like a speedier X-Wing that trades in hull resiliency to maneuver like a TIE Interceptor. Unfortunately right now, the fighter that looks like that could be the E-Wing! How much different would it be for a ship with E-Wing stats to run different upgrade items, with different actions on the bar, and having a different range of pilot skills and aces?

 

I think the need is there. Interceptors can be fantastic but one whiff and it's pretty much over. For a few points extra I would like to see a fighter that is more forgiving with resiliency but is still as fun to fly as a TIE Interceptor. The Defender doesn't look like like it could do this, but an Avenger could.

 

If you want a tougher interceptor for more points use the HP upgrades.

Edited by Lagomorphia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...