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Julia

Questions for the next FAQ - please post here

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You definitely get to use the blessed die for each adventure until you lose your blessing by failing an adventure, getting cursed, etc.  It just functions like any other die- once you use it to complete a task or discard it from failure to complete a task, it's no longer in your pool for that turn.

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Maybe it is just a protection against some possible rules lawyering, like using your blessed die on a task and then using it again and again in the same adventure.

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New player here. Love the game. Would someone please help with a question? Let's say a card has a terror effect to get rid of all terror dice. Can you focus a die to keep it, or does it need to be discarded due to the terror effect? Which step comes first?

Also, it looks like this page is for a second FAQ. Can someone point me to the first?

Thanks!!!

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You can focus dice after failing to complete a task (core rules, pag 10, under Focusing) while checking for terror effects happens before (just immediately before discarding dice due to a failed roll).

 

The general order:

 

- you trigger the terror effects

- you discard one die

- you focus / assist

 

the previous edition of the FAQ can be downloaded from the support page for Elder Sign

 

Please (don't take this as rude, it's not the intention): post general questions not on this thread. I should go through all the questions when assembling the FAQ entry list, and "normal" questions woudl just dilute FAQ questions, with the risk something could slip from my attention. Thanks :)

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Thank you for answering my questions.  Much appreciated.  

 

At the risk of asking a normal question:  

 

Scenario:

 

The adventure card states that the terror effect is to automatically fail the adventure.

I roll the dice.  I can not complete any tasks and I have a terror die showing.  If I play a spell and secure that terror die, does the terror effect still go off?  Or has the terror die now been removed from the pool - preventing the terror effect from occurring?

 

As a new gamer, the order in which events occur is very confusing and the guide does not offer much clarity.

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Drew,

 

     Unless the Investigator utilizes a Clue token, which in effect means that the roll IS NOT over, the Terror Effect...well, takes effect and then you proceed.  In essence, given the constraints of your description, I can't think (though others might) of a time in which you'll ever be able to hold a Terror die on an Adventure card with a Terror Effect.

 

Cheers,

Joe

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Hi folks,

I was asked by FFG to start collecting questions for an upcoming Elder Sign FAQ project. So, if during your games you find something obscure that you think requires clarification or some situations occurred that are not covered by the revised rulebook or the latest FAQ release, please post your questions here. We could try to find a proper solution together (sometimes rules are nifty, but reasoning together helps getting all the nuances; or helps understanding better the problem) and then, if they are still obscure, I'll report them to the attention of FFG.

Also, if you received official clarifications via email, please post questions and answer here as well, so that everything can be included in the very same document.

Thanks a lot for your help :) The game is awesome, and with your help will be even better :)

JULIA

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I appologize again but for some reason this site keeps the quote but deletes the reply. *sigh*

First off no I don't need any rules clarifications for Elder Sign. It's one of my favorite games, We've played it many times with non-gamers and there have been questions (easily answered by the basic rules.) but no issues. I find the rules tight, logical, and easily and quickly taught. However by the same token if I come up with an addendum to "See Spot Run." I'll letcha' know.

The main reason for my reply is what you've said about rules and how they apply to games: "rules are nifty, but reasoning together helps getting all the nuances; or helps understanding better the problem" (quotes mine)

I ask this because you seem to be some kind of "community leader" (sorry don't know what else to call it....) here and I want to make sure that your quote is NOT how FFG feels about games. To me rules are necessary, not nifty. They are the the end of the argument. The final word. If your final word is "maybe?" then what are you really saying and what authority are you saying with? When I debate rules I'm using those rules as my authority. What can I do if I just walk into a bunch of house rules that just exist because the owner of the game says so? I'm not a big fan of baseless authority....

It's important because the topic is one of my major complaints about game companies is releasing poorly balanced unfinished product. There really is only one answer to this problem: Doing the math right on the first go and not expecting the consumers to do your job for you. That's why I comment here. With Elder Sign FFG has BEEN the example. This game is clear. This game was made well.

Actually let me try to make my point better by asking you two questions: 1. Do YOU personally have rules clarification issues with Elder Sign? 2. Do you or do you not believe that FFG did a great job with the rules, design, and balance of Elder Sign?

Yeah, that's better!

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In response to DreDrew82 and "The Professor":

DreDrew82: "At the risk of asking a normal question: The adventure card states that the terror effect is to automatically fail the adventure.

I roll the dice. I can not complete any tasks and I have a terror die showing. If I play a spell and secure that terror die, does the terror effect still go off? Or has the terror die now been removed from the pool - preventing the terror effect from occurring?"

As a new gamer, the order in which events occur is very confusing and the guide does not offer much clarity." END QUOTE.

First, I found it hard to believe that this wasn't answered yet with anything but a snarky "Welcome to Elder Sign Drew." This isn't Street Fighter idiot! Someone is asking a real question! Seriously why post if you offer nothing, I know some of you practically LIVE here but really....

The Professor: "Drew, Unless the Investigator utilizes a Clue token, which in effect means that the roll IS NOT over, the Terror Effect...well, takes effect and then you proceed. In essence, given the constraints of your description, I can't think (though others might) of a time in which you'll ever be able to hold a Terror die on an Adventure card with a Terror Effect." (again, QUOTES MINE.)

Then imagine my surprise when you finally get an answer.....and it's completely WRONG! Personally I was surprised that someone with the generally educated monicker of "The Professor" with one thousand two hundred and sixty five posts (maybe they have nothing to do with Elder Sign?) would get that so totally wrong but....

*sigh* It even says BOLDLY in the basic rules that spell effects can trigger before you lose a die and that terror effects trigger right AFTER you lose a die so yes, spells CAN be used to dodge terror effects. It's part of their purpose I believe.

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Actually let me try to make my point better by asking you two questions: 1. Do YOU personally have rules clarification issues with Elder Sign? 2. Do you or do you not believe that FFG did a great job with the rules, design, and balance of Elder Sign?

Yeah, that's better!

 

I'm not here to debate my personal view of the rules, but to collect questions. When I said "rules are nifty", that's objective: if rules were so streamlined and cleared, nobody would have kept on asking the same questions over and over and over since the game had been released. So that, focusing on finding about what people get confused on, is one of the main aim of the FAQ project.

 

If there were no need for a new FAQ, then nobody would have answered the call, the thread would have gone deserted, and so on. But we got questions.

 

Additionally, an FAQ document shouldn't only address "obscure" points in the rulebook, but also help guiding players of all levels (from the rules lawyers to the occasional gamers) in understanding better what happens. For instance, lots of people over the BGG argued for ages about the "when I kill a monster locking a die, may I add that die to my dice pool befor the end of my Resolution Phase or not?". I think rules are clear, but people keep on arguing about this, so that having an FAQ entry with this question stated would help undoubtably these players.

 

And in any case, having an updated FAQ document won't hurt anyone.

 

 

EDIT: and please, do not flame this thread.

Edited by Julia
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xodarap,

 

     At the risk of goading you into a greater fury than we've witnessed already with your torrent of posts during the past 12 hours,  please tell me, Drew, and everyone else how you would manage to secure a Terror die via Spell on an Adventure card with Terror Effects. given the changes to Spells over the past few years.  Bottom line: It's not so cut-and-dry as you make it sound, and no, I've never used a Spell to "dodge Terror Effects" in my games.   Please enlighten us.

 

Cheers,

Joe

Edited by The Professor
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Joe,

 

I think the point is that spells are played immediately after rolling, while terror effects are checked only when you fail to complete a task. According to this structure, the spell enters play before, so that actually it should be a legal move.

 

Still, it's a little odd: you secure a die on a spell to avoid a terror effect that should be triggered only after failing the task, so, in some sort, you check to see if you pass or not, you know that you'd fail and then you secure the die to avoid extra bad stuff.

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Julia,

 

     Thanks ~ it's one of the failings of the original rules in my opinion.  The Adventure cards, by-and-large are quite straightforward (dare I say easy), so the Terror Effects should be something feared, not "dodged" by a Spell (which if memory serves is cast in its original incarnation (sorry about the pun) before you even roll).  Anyway, I appreciate your post...as always.

 

Ciao,

Joe

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-----the appearance of gates / discarding of trophies / devouring of investigators / addition of doom tokens of the Arkham Nights Yog-Sothoth

Obsessive Gamer,

 

I thought for awhile about this one, and I think maybe I can help.

 

Point is that devoured investigators don't have replacement entering the game until their next turn. This means that actually there is no way for the the gate icons to have devourings chaining: the worst that can happen is that the whole party is devoured. This leaves clearly two questions:

 

a) pag. 19 of the revised rulebook reads "the game ends when all investigators are devoured", but it's not clear whether this implies an instant devouring of all the members of the party, or that all investigators are devoured and there are no replacement investigator to substitute them

 

b) even with no devourings chaining, is the AO fairly balanced? A large party is certainly penalized in this situation, while a smaller party (1 or 2 investigators) can survive the effect without suffering too much

 

These points I think are worth discussion, but I hope I was able to answer to your "timing" question

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How about, if your investigator is cursed and you roll a terror result on a single green die and the curse die, and fail to resolve a task, do you resolve the teror effect first before removing the terror result, or do you remove the terror result first, thus negating the terror effect? My personal take has always been to resolve the terror effect first and then remove the green die from your pool, but would like to see an official ruling.

 

I reflected on this one as well (and also to klaymen_sk answer) and actually it's a lot tricky. Point is that according to the rules on pag. 3, the answer is the one klaymen_sk gave us; but if we look at the example in the box on the very same page, Rita resolves the Cursed die before checking the pass / fail condition of the task. The dice shown in the example clearly allow her to pass the first task depicted (6 investigations, obtained thanks to the yellow die and one of the green die). If playing accordingly to the rules on pag. 3, she'd have a) passed the task and then b) checked the cursed die, which, at that point, wouldn't have affected her remaining dice pool because no other 3-investigation result was rolled.

 

Hence, what's the correct one? I entered this question in the FAQ list. Hopefully the clarification will shed some light also on xfoley8's original question

 

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The situation: have an Other World adventure in play with 2 monsters on it.  Draw the Mythos Insight card "The Way Closes..." (Discard one Other World card (of the players' choice)) "...Or Darkness Descends" (three monsters appear).

 

The question: if you choose to discard the other world card, do the monsters get discarded as well, or do they get sent to other adventures?

 

I searched the rules for the answer, but haven't found it yet. So far, I never seen any effect in Elder Sign resulting in a monster to be "moved" somewhere else, so, my guts say the monster(s) eventually present on the card are returned to the cup.

 

I added the question to the FAQ list, tho

 

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Regarding the cursed die, I'd say the intention is like this:

-roll the dice

-use your abilities/clues

-check for the cursed die

-check for pass/fail on a task

Either that, or in the paragraph they meant before instead of after, meaning that you check the cursed die right after you roll your dice.

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Aye, it really depends on how heavy they want the curse to be. I tend to think that the example is right and rules wrong (generally speaking, I think it's easier to have mistaken a single word rather than a whole example), but I won't bet my house on that.

 

Let's see what the FAQ answer will be.

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Actually let me try to make my point better by asking you two questions: 1. Do YOU personally have rules clarification issues with Elder Sign? 2. Do you or do you not believe that FFG did a great job with the rules, design, and balance of Elder Sign?

Yeah, that's better!

 

I'm not here to debate my personal view of the rules, but to collect questions. When I said "rules are nifty", that's objective: if rules were so streamlined and cleared, nobody would have kept on asking the same questions over and over and over since the game had been released. So that, focusing on finding about what people get confused on, is one of the main aim of the FAQ project.

 

If there were no need for a new FAQ, then nobody would have answered the call, the thread would have gone deserted, and so on. But we got questions.

 

Additionally, an FAQ document shouldn't only address "obscure" points in the rulebook, but also help guiding players of all levels (from the rules lawyers to the occasional gamers) in understanding better what happens. For instance, lots of people over the BGG argued for ages about the "when I kill a monster locking a die, may I add that die to my dice pool befor the end of my Resolution Phase or not?". I think rules are clear, but people keep on arguing about this, so that having an FAQ entry with this question stated would help undoubtably these players.

 

And in any case, having an updated FAQ document won't hurt anyone.

 

 

EDIT: and please, do not flame this thread.

 

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Sorry, it posted the quote again and not the response. Which is really bad because I had worked really hard on that but in a nutshell?

I came here because I thought it was a site for FFG to gauge interest in upcoming projects and collect the opinions of their consumers. So I thought that while I'm stuck to my computer anywho I might as well share some of mine and maybe even some ideas.

I had no idea that I needed to couch my consumer opinion in certain ways, I didn't know that only PolyAnnas need apply and if someone says something that is just flat wrong or rude I shouldn't call them out. Sorry, but that's kinda' what I do. I sorta' expected to get called out for calling someone an idiot as opposed to politely saying they were acting in a way that could be interpreted as mean and de-motivational. No one did. I'm actually sorry for that one. It was reactionary and innapropriate.

As for mocking the Prof for his name and inability to live up to it? Sorry, no regrets. None. C'mon you guys drop the facade for .5 and TELL me it's not funny that someone with a name so amazingly pretentious is actually wrong.....TWICE!! Are you kiddin' me man? That's freakin' HI-larious!!

Anyway I did not mean to intentionally offend anyone. Not even the prof.

As for what I've said about the rules I really mean it. This game is clear. This game is concise. I really don't feel it would be served by yet another FFG FAQ. You DO know that FFG is actually called FAQ at the store? It makes me wince whenever I hear it....

Then again that's just my opinion and I had no idea the form it was expressed in meant so very much to people who aren't FFG. I promise to keep it to a dull roar from now on. Actually we are talking about some of my first posts and folks believe me there are reasons why they are a little edgier than current ones. Those are reasons though and not excuses I still accept complete responsibility for my actions and if FFG wants to ban me then I guess I'm banned.

What I wrote was SO much better than that but I'm actually really tired of trying to contribute something to a company that has given me some great experiences and that I really want to succeed when my method of doing so is apparently way out of line and the contribution part is sadly misconstrued or ignored so yeah, that'll have to do.

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xodarap,

 

     I, for one, forgive you. 

 

     There's plenty of room for both discussion and debate in these fora.  I've appreciated the healthy conversations which have prompted questions from others, my own inquiries, and even respectful disagreements with seasoned professionals and FAQs.  At the end of the day, this is a great place to meet others who share your gaming passion.

 

Cheers,

Joe    

Edited by The Professor

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You know, there are many Professors in life, and not all of them teach rules for boardgames. Some of them are great linguists; some others are professors in good manners, some others interpret the word "professor" as someone available to help even on difficult topics.

 

Fun fact, it happens that Joe is a Professor in all the three areas I quoted.

 

Additionally, it could happen than sometimes he forgets one rule, but it also could happen that people have a life and do not spend all their free time reading over and over the very same rulebook.

 

This community is great because people are here to help, not to mock; to explain their interpretation of the rules, in respect of others opinion, not to make sarcastic comments on the quality of the games and the way others interact. Let's try to keep this community as wonderful as it has always been, shall we?

 

And please, maybe I wasn't able to express this clearly, but stop spamming the FAQ thread. By posting here non-game related questions worth an FAQ entry, we are damaging the community.

 

Thanks for understanding.

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Maybe there's already an official ruling on this, but I don't see it.

 

The situation: have an Other World adventure in play with 2 monsters on it.  Draw the Mythos Insight card "The Way Closes..." (Discard one Other World card (of the players' choice)) "...Or Darkness Descends" (three monsters appear).

 

The question: if you choose to discard the other world card, do the monsters get discarded as well, or do they get sent to other adventures?

 

The "A Fresh Start..." Mythos Insight card says to discard all Adventure cards, Other World cards, and monster markers, then draw 6 new Adventures.

 

The Dragon's Eye unique item specifically says to discard one Adventure card, along with all monsters on it, to get a new one.

 

The common item Museum Map also says to discard 1 Adventure card, along with all monsters on it, replacing it with a new Adventure card.

 

These three all specify what to do with the monsters, but the Mythos Insight card in question does not.  An oversight?  Regardless, what's the ruling?

Same problem with Daoloth's Other World adventure discarding.

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Maybe there's already an official ruling on this, but I don't see it.

 

The situation: have an Other World adventure in play with 2 monsters on it.  Draw the Mythos Insight card "The Way Closes..." (Discard one Other World card (of the players' choice)) "...Or Darkness Descends" (three monsters appear).

 

The question: if you choose to discard the other world card, do the monsters get discarded as well, or do they get sent to other adventures?

 

The "A Fresh Start..." Mythos Insight card says to discard all Adventure cards, Other World cards, and monster markers, then draw 6 new Adventures.

 

The Dragon's Eye unique item specifically says to discard one Adventure card, along with all monsters on it, to get a new one.

 

The common item Museum Map also says to discard 1 Adventure card, along with all monsters on it, replacing it with a new Adventure card.

 

These three all specify what to do with the monsters, but the Mythos Insight card in question does not.  An oversight?  Regardless, what's the ruling?

Same problem with Daoloth's Other World adventure discarding.

 

 

Yep, I entered a general entry in the FAQ asking about what happens if the effect doesn't specify to discard the monster(s) since other cards have such a wording. Thanks for adding Daoloth to the list; I noted it down

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