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Glorious Strategist

Lair of the Wyrm Now Available!

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I'm tempted to get LotW just for the geomancer class primarily, but am unsure if it's worth the financial investment. I've got The base game, LoR, and SoN. After having purchased those, the mini-expansions just seem to have a lower value. I have been waiting for it to become available, again, though.

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Yea my local game store had a copy yesterday and I grabbed it, I now own everything 2nd edition related besides the conversion kit (never owned D1).

One question for anyone that has Trollfens and Lair though: how do you do the secret room coins? I currently have them in 2 stacks and just pick one stack to draw from. Does anyone mix all 16? it seems like you could get some really weird secret rooms like that.

 

Edit: Also, do you put BOTH secret room cards in the search deck? Seems that might change things, especially when Manor of Ravens hits, I'd assume that would have another secret room set along with a card.

Edited by Carbini

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Edit: Also, do you put BOTH secret room cards in the search deck? Seems that might change things, especially when Manor of Ravens hits, I'd assume that would have another secret room set along with a card.

 

I interpret the rules to mean there's only one (1) instance of the Secret Door card in the Search Deck. The reason is because it says to have it replace the "Nothing" card, of which there was only one to begin with.

 

So: 1 secret door card per Quest, but combine all secret door cards from all mini expansions into a single deck.

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Yea I guess you wouldn't replace it with both, I don't even remember that rule, thanks for the reminder.

 

So for the 8 room coins I guess I'll just keep 2 stacks and pick one. The only difference is one has imps and the other has harpies I believe.

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I just put the tokens in one stack of 16. If you look at it mathematically the odds for having a monster is still 50%, now there is just more variation in which monster that hits.

 

 

I also read it as 1 secrect room card ion the search deck. 

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Lair of the wyrm fire imps are also cool! Especially when paired with Lord Merric Farrow's plot deck card which gives master monsters a swarm like surge attack to a maximum of +4 hearts, for a measly 1 threat token for the entire encounter. There are two master monsters in the fire imp group so they both gain this ability. They also have a movement of 5 so they can move around the board pretty quickly. Paired up with other Lord Merric Farrows other plot cards which add damage you start pushing out some insane damage.

 

The only downside of their low health, 3 minion monsters have 2 health each and the master monsters have 4 each in act 1.

 

If you need burst damage, this is a pretty intense combo when you cant pick harpies.

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Yearh, both the hybrid sentinels and fire imps are awesome. The geomancer i am ahving my first run with atm, and he seems really fun. the champions is just awesome and both Reyhart and Quellen is pretty sweet characters in my opinion. The punisher OL cards is also a great addition, it have really served me well as OL, so all in all this expasion is really my favorite (i know alot of people like the Trollfens more, but not me). The only thing missing is a real campaign and not just the mini one. 

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I just put the tokens in one stack of 16. If you look at it mathematically the odds for having a monster is still 50%, now there is just more variation in which monster that hits.

 

 

I also read it as 1 secrect room card ion the search deck. 

 

That is only true for the first token you draw. While I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with doing this, just make sure that you recognize that you are significantly changing the odds of drawing any particular combination. For example, you're almost tripling the chances that your heroes will either get all monsters or all challenge tokens.

 

In my campaign, we only use one stack of eight, but let the overlord choose which one he wants to use.

Edited by amoshias

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Yea amoshias that's the same though that ran through my head as well. ATM we actually just take the 2 stacks and pick a "random" one each mission. Could be the fire imp... could be the harpy! :)

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According to RAW, (Trollfens p. 4; Lair of the Wyrm p. 3), under "Expansion Setup" (emphasis mine)

 

 

3. Incorporate Other Components: Add [the green power die,] Hero sheets, hero and monster figures, all tokens, and map tiles from this expansion to their respective supplies.

 

So technically, they all go into one supply as there is no rule for separating them.

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Hmm... so what you're saying is

 

"FFG really thinks that the basic mathematics of the game should be different based on how many expansions you've bought from them"

 

rather than

 

"FFG is really bad at writing consistent rules that cover all cases, this is well known about them, and this particular incredibly minor issue is one which would have been really easy to overlook even for a game company which paid more attention to this type of detail."

 

All I can say is, interesting.

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That's funny because I've never thought about that. I mixed up everything, but again the rulesbook states what can be mixed up or added, or maybe there is no mention about the challenge tokens? We've had maybe 6-7 secret rooms since we started playing the game, and we never considered the monsters could be coming from multiple expansions. Honestly, that just adds variation to the secret room thingy, I don't really see why I would keep both piles separate. The extra secret passage search card though I keep in the box, so we only run one of them in the deck.

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Hmm... so what you're saying is

 

"FFG really thinks that the basic mathematics of the game should be different based on how many expansions you've bought from them"

 

rather than

 

"FFG is really bad at writing consistent rules that cover all cases, this is well known about them, and this particular incredibly minor issue is one which would have been really easy to overlook even for a game company which paid more attention to this type of detail."

 

All I can say is, interesting.

Firstly, I said that according to the Rules as Written, this is how it's done. I wasn't saying anything about FFG, their habits, etc.

 

That said, now I will. Every expansion changes the math. You add a new hero or class to the mix, and suddenly you have a number of other hero/class combinations and party compositions that you have to take into account. You add a new Overlord class, you do the same thing. The same goes with adding new equipment, relics, etc. Every expansion changes the math and there's no way around it. It's also very possible that they were aware of it and are OK with it (I really doubt that it's so game-breaking). It's also possible that they may have preferred not to, but went with it anyway for the sake of not adding further complexity to the already complex rules. We don't really get much insight into the "why" of FFG's rulesets.

 

In general, I rarely try to assume that I know what FFG meant / preferred once they've written the rules. I have occasionally disagreed with a clarification, but almost always it's been because it wasn't stated as an errata and seemed to contradict what had already come before.

 

 

 

That's funny because I've never thought about that. I mixed up everything, but again the rulesbook states what can be mixed up or added, or maybe there is no mention about the challenge tokens?

As I pointed out above, the rulebooks both state to add all tokens (which would include challenge tokens) to their respective supplies.

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I think you might be using the word "math" wrong. There's no game-relevant math, as far as I know, in choosing which character you're playing, or which overlord card group you're buying cards from. Specific cards or powers might - but I don't use one blue die (with no X) if I own Trollfens and a different one (with no 6) if I own LotW.

 

Of course, every expansion adds strategic choice, it changes the balance and adds options. It doesn't change the basic probabilities of game events. That's what we're talking about here.

 

Either way, I don't disagree with you that it is a very plausible reading of the rules that they all go into a pile. However, I don't think that's what FFG intended (because I don't think they had any intention here at all) and I, personally, think the result of doing it is negative. (I can see some people being thrilled to have more randomness in the token distribution, and enjoying the much higher possibility of seeing 4 monsters or 4 challenge tokens.)

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I think you might be using the word "math" wrong. There's no game-relevant math, as far as I know, in choosing which character you're playing, or which overlord card group you're buying cards from. Specific cards or powers might - but I don't use one blue die (with no X) if I own Trollfens and a different one (with no 6) if I own LotW.

How much fatigue a class has access to for how many times it can use various powers in a quest without resting, or how many movement points can be taken advantage of by certain class abilities certainly is a mathematic problem. Once there are numbers involved (Health, Stamina, Shields, Movement, Attributes, etc.) that have operations (addition, subtraction, probability tests, etc.) performed on them, it can be mathematically analyzed. (And even then, that's just the simplest of what defines a math problem; talk to people who study high-level applied/theoretical mathematics for a living and you'll find that its applications are extremely varied)

Edited by griton

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