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Hipsu

How to enjoy doom?

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Maybe once a year I come here to whine about doom and  it seems now it's that time again... 

 

Something bugs be about doom. It's always somewhat unpleasant and wearisome experience and I can't enjoy it. I think the biggest gripe originates from a combination of these three things:

1. Some marine might have a tough armor but it doesn't matter because the invader always ***** the weakest player. Again and again.

2. Even with 3 marines, there will be a blind corner somewhere where to summon monster(s

3. After summoning, the monsters can move right away and attack.

Those three things combined means the Invader can often deal "free" damage to the weakest player and it gets old and frustrating pretty fast. And since the frags are mutual... Sure, the marines have their ready actions but they often don't work and of course the invader has its own deck to make life even more miserable for those marines.

 

Now I read these forums and see that many people really enjoy the game. How do you do it? I'd really like to enjoy this game.

One thing I should mention. It seems both sides uses very much time just analysing the situation. I think we suffer from a major analysis paralysis and one scenario can take many hours. In the end everybody is exhausted and in dire need of fresh air. Is this normal or should we try to forget all that overanalyzing and just move with the game? How long should one scenario last?

Does the Invader in your games play to the max, you know, tactically maneuvering those supposedly mindless zombies and always thinking what's the most clever move? Or is the Invader in your games more like a game master just providing that nice atmosphere and experience...

Do you use any house rules?

Is the game more enjoyable with 2 or 3 marines?

Do you draw skills totally random? Often in our games one player gets totally useless cards and finds himself being raped by the Invader. Some other marine gets some totally uber combo and kills everything in sight (making the other players feel useless)

Help me out here. Just tell me anything...

 

 

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For me, the invader being able to '**** the invader' is part of the fun.  Hmm, that sounds wrong...  The game is supposed to be geared towards the invader, it is after all, the marines TRYING to escape, therefore if it were easy, where would the fun be?  I generally play with only one marine, and yes there have been time when that marine has been thoroughly trounced.

I think the key thing is to remember that each mission has an objective and this is ALL you should worry about.  You can spend hours going into every room, getting very little reward (except kill points in the campaign) and taking hours over the campaign. 

Would you enjoy this game if the marines walked through the game and won every time?  If you're a marine and have had troubles getting through the campaign, have you tried the difficulty mod?  Seems to me that you struggle with the challenge and that is the WHOLE point of the game.

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Hipsu said:

 

 

How long should one scenario last?

Does the Invader in your games play to the max, you know, tactically maneuvering those supposedly mindless zombies and always thinking what's the most clever move? Or is the Invader in your games more like a game master just providing that nice atmosphere and experience...

Do you use any house rules?

Is the game more enjoyable with 2 or 3 marines?

Do you draw skills totally random? Often in our games one player gets totally useless cards and finds himself being raped by the Invader. Some other marine gets some totally uber combo and kills everything in sight (making the other players feel useless)

 

 

I'll go from the top:

Scenarios take about 2 hours for us (Invader + 2 Marines, 2-players), 2.5h max.

I'm always the Invader and I play to the MAX (not max gui%C3%B1o.gif ). Cacodemons don't shoot at a Marine, if shooting next to a Marine will damage both Marines. Hell Knights will try to chuck Marines to Poochies.

Some, mainly the official mods from the expansion rules. A couple of mods to the Marine cards courtesy of Tibs. Mods generally used:

Unending Pistol, Well-Trained, Organized Marines, dropping difficulty down one to "Hey Not Too Rough". Kills are counted together, then divided at the end, so Marines kill collectively, not individually.

Never even tried it with 3, 2 makes for a game that is slightly balanced towards the Invader, but Marines can win.

Well-Trained with 2 Marines means each draws 4, picks 3 of those.

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Hmm, it does seem from my post that I don't like challenge but actually I do! And I also like that it's supposed to be a surviving game, running from the Invader and all that stuff. That's why I'd like to learn to enjoy it. 

But I just don't like the mechanic where the Invader can deal that "free" damage. It feels frustrating when it strikes you and you can do nothing about it (yea, yea, those ready actions are there...)

On the other hand we might be playing this game totally the wrong way. Our marines seems to like to move slow and clear and explore every room... which makes the game long and give Invader many changes to do those ninja strikes... which again leads to all that frustration and rambling on the forums... :)

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That's your problem. This is not a clear-em-all kind of game. This is a run-for-your-life game, LEAVE, don't kill!

Otherwise, we love it. There's very little that our players don't like. Still, I think we like Space Hulk more ;)

-shnar

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shnar said:

 

That's your problem. This is not a clear-em-all kind of game. This is a run-for-your-life game, LEAVE, don't kill!

 

 

Quoted for truth.  If the marines try to explore every room and kill every monster they WILL lose.  The game was designed to keep them moving and make it HARD when they do, so if they don't they won't stand a chance.

 

Edit: Unless the Invader goes easy on them, of course =P

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Hipsu said:

 

Hmm, it does seem from my post that I don't like challenge but actually I do! And I also like that it's supposed to be a surviving game, running from the Invader and all that stuff. That's why I'd like to learn to enjoy it. 

But I just don't like the mechanic where the Invader can deal that "free" damage. It feels frustrating when it strikes you and you can do nothing about it (yea, yea, those ready actions are there...)

On the other hand we might be playing this game totally the wrong way. Our marines seems to like to move slow and clear and explore every room... which makes the game long and give Invader many changes to do those ninja strikes... which again leads to all that frustration and rambling on the forums... :)

 

 

The day you ditch the "I can kill everything I want and should be near-invincible!!!" mindset and approach the game as a SURVIVAL HORROR game, you will find yourself getting more victories and enyoing the game more. Dude, you're in a fraking military base filled to the brim with horrible things from Hell and only have a weapon or two to defend yourself, why do you expect to be able to kill everything on plain sight at your leisure?.

What would you do in such a situation? Spray ammo like an idiot and charge the demons, or run like mad and conserve ammo?.

If your Marines keep getting bad card combos (or insane combos that make everyone else irrelevant), just draft the Marine cards: Merge the base game's marine cards with the expansion's marine cards in a single stack, then deal it to one of the marine players. That player will take a card, then pass the remaining to the player to his left. Then she'll pick a card and pass the stack, and so on until everyone gets a card. Then the passing order is reversed, and so forth until all players have drafted at least 4 cards.  Then the players will pick one card and ditch it.

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I see where your coming from, espeically from the 'weakest' marine ala, the one with the least armor tokens.

My buddies and I only played this a handful of times and each time they end up down and ou(marines). The only thing you can really do, is have whoever is the invader go lighter, make 'nuetral' choices, ones that don't totally benefit the invader. You could also try the easier modes, that coupled with a invader that can mess around should make for a good time. Of course seeing how Doom favors the invader, they can always lay the back hand down if the marines get too cocky.cool.gif

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Personally as much as I love the RAW game, I'm more of a mod person myself. So I looked through some other peoples mods and made some of my own until I (and pretty much everyone I have ever played with) developed a game that was a lot more enjoyable.

Basically we got rid of the "Random Marine Skill Cards", as I thought that was a huge joke and I hated it with a passion. I developed a 'Career' system, printed out some extra Marine Cards that marines get to draw when they die and also tweaked the weapons ever so slightly (like pistols have infinite ammo, like the expansion suggests and tweaking some of the abilities on the weapons). As such, all of my players have a lot more fun this way and have said that they enjoy the game *much* more, as it seems a bit more balanced.

Also, I know most Invader players are out there to 'beat the living snot out of their friends', but I'm mostly playing to have fun and give them a hell of a challenge, not curb stomp their faces in (but I don't make it easy to win and if they are being stupid and die, so be it!). So when I play the Invader's, I make my pieces act like rabid dogs... they simply mass on the closest target and try to eat him alive. However, if I have two marines to choose from, I always pick the weakest. Also, I have no qualms about using the Invader Cards to my advantage and being ugly with the cards, since I'm being pretty fair and 'tunnel-vision' with my monsters. I also like to have my monsters have a little personality... if some silly guy with low HP decides to shoot at my Hell Knight and manages to hurt him bad enough, I'll make the Hell Knight run after him and beat the crap out of him for "pissing" him off (:

All in all, it works out well! Not saying go through all of that to make it more fun, but do whatever it takes to make the game fun for *you* guys! If you don't like the idea of a "Career System", I'd say let the Marines draw 4 cards, then discard down to 3 like the expansion booklet suggests. You'll probably have an easier time that way. Not to mention, STICK TOGETHER, divvy up the weapons so no one is left with a weak weapon, always advance/guard and don't try to clear all the rooms unless you know there is a cool weapon in there or you are kicking major arse.

Well, good luck! Hope that helps a little!

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If you're worried about players trying to clear every room and kill everything in sight.. make things a little harder on them.. add a time limit for deciding what to do in their turn AND add a max turns system in.

You could just look at the mission and then decide how many turns it might take to get all the way through, use knowledge of the game to judge how many turns.. or we could have a think tank about some "count down doom timer"system that will get them to run.

The players ARE running for a shuttle that's going to take them to safety afterall :)

just my thoughts...

 

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