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Naboooki

Examples of two handed combat checks

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I've read through the rules, but I'm still a bit fuzzy on how dual wielding works. Either with 2 pistols or a gun and me lee weapon.

Can anyone give some examples to help me better understand how to make this check?

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DWing is confusing.  

 

Look at it this way, your dice pool is assembled by the worst of everything if you are using two skills and have two different characteristics being used, say in a sword pistol combo.  Use the lowest of both to determine your dice pool, regardless of even if they match up with one another.  So say Brawn 1 Melee 3 Agility 3  Range(L) 2. You would use Brawn as it is 1, and Range(L) as it is 2, even though they don't match up.  Bottom line, be really good and equal or use one kind of skill.

 

Then you compare the two weapons to the target and see what their respective Difficulties are.  Pick the highest Difficulty of the two if they are different weapons.  That's what gets used for the base Difficulty.  If you are using two different skills, like in a sword pistol combo it is +2 Difficulty on top of that.  If you are using the same skill for both weapons, 2 pistols, it is +1 Difficulty.

 

It's easiest to figure things out if you just use the same kind of weapons in both hands.

 

Hope that helps.

Edited by 2P51

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Yeah it's much simpler if you don't mix weapons. You can dual wield with fists, the only change is the difficulty is Hard (PPP), not Average. And remember, you only trigger the second hit by spending 2 Advantages.

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I believe I interpreted the rules right in the following examples.

 

1. Designate which weapon is the primary and which is the secondary.
2. Use the lowest ranking skill of the two weapons, and the lowest characteristic of each.
3. Calculate the difficulty of attacking with each weapon.
  3.a. If the skills associated with each weapon are the same, use that difficulty but increase it by one.
  3.b. If the skills associated with each weapon are different, take the highest difficulty and increase it by 2.
4. Make the check. Success hits with primary as normal.
5. Spend 2 Advantage or Triumph to hit with secondary. Soak applies to each hit. Any additional Advantage or triumph can be spent as usual. Each hit deals +1 per uncanceled success


Luke Skywalker
Brawn 3, Agility 4
Melee 2, Ranged (Light) 3

Example 1:

Luke Skywalker is wielding 2 vibroswords and is engaged in combat with a stormtrooper. He wants to attack the storm trooper with both swords for this turn.

He designates the Vibrosword with the monomolecular edge attachment as his primary weapon.
Both Vibroswords use the melee skill and are keyed off of his brawn rating. so the first part of his dice pool will be GYY

He is at engaged range with the Stormtrooper so the highest of the two difficulties are the same, average PP.  Since he is using his melee skills for both attack, the difficulty of the attack is only increase by 1. This makes his entire dice pool GYYPPP.

 

When he rolls his dice pool, he succeeds but fails to generate the 2 advantage, so he only hits with the primary weapon, the vibrosword with the monomolecular blade attachment. Had he generated the 2 advantage, the number of successes generated by the check would also have been added to the base damage of the secondary's sword.


Example 2:

Luke Skywalker is wielding a vibrosword and a blaster pistol. He is engaged in combat with a stormtrooper. He wants to attack the storm trooper with the sword and the pistol for this turn.
He designates the Vibrosword with the monomolecular edge attachment as his primary weapon.
The Vibrosword uses the melee skill while the pistol uses the Ranged Light. Melee is the worse skill so he will use that as the skill value. Between Brawn and Agility, the contributing characteristics in this example, Brawn is the weakest. so the first part of his dice pool will be GYY

He is at engaged range with the Stormtrooper. Since he is firing a ranged weapon in while engaged with an opponent, the ranged difficulty for the attack will be average, which is the same as the melee attack, average PP. Since one weapon uses the Melee skill and the other uses Ranged (Light), he must increase the difficulty of check by 2. This makes his entire dice pool GYYPPPP.

When he rolls his dice pool, he succeeds with one net success and generates 2 advantages and a Triumph, so not only does he hit with the vibrosword, he will also spends his 2 advantage to hit with the blaster pistol as well. The Stormtrooper's soak is applied separately to both attacks, and each one gets an additional point of damage added to the base damage listed for the weapon due to the one uncancelled success.
With the last 2 advantage, Luke will activate a critical hit from his sword on the trooper.


Example 3:
Luke Skywalker is wielding 2 blaster pistols. He is at short range from a stormtrooper. He wants to attack the storm trooper with both pistols for this turn.

Both pistols are mechanically identical, so it doesn't matter which he uses as the primary weapon.
Both blasters use the Ranged (Light) skill and are keyed off of his agility rating. so the first part of his dice pool will be GYYY.

 

He is at short range with the stormtrooper so the highest of the two difficulties are the same, easy [P]. Since Luke is using 2 blaster pistols, each utilizing the Ranged (Light) skill, so he only increases the difficulty by 1. This makes his entire dice pool GYYYPP.

 

When he rolls his dice pool, he succeeds with three net success and generates 3 advantages, so not only does he hit with the blaster pistol, he will also spends 2 of his advantage to hit with the second blaster pistol as well. The stormtrooper's soak is applied separately to both attacks, and each one gets an additional 3 points of damage added to the base damage listed for the weapon due to the three uncancelled successes.

With the last advantage, Luke will feel confident knowing that the galaxy has one less stormtrooper around and will recover a point of strain.

Example 4:
Luke Skywalker is wielding 2 blaster pistols. He is at medium range from one stormtrooper and at short range from another. He wants to attack both troopers.
As before, both pistols are mechanically identical, so it doesn't matter which he uses as the primary weapon. Both blasters use the Ranged (Light) skill and are keyed off of his agility rating. so the first part of his dice pool will be GYYY

 

He is at short range with one stormtrooper and at medium range from the other. so the highest of the two difficulties is average [PP]. Both blasters utilize the Ranged (Light) skill, so he only increases the difficulty by 1 for this check. The entire dice pool will be GYYYPPP.

 

When he rolls his dice pool, he failed with 3 advantages, since he did not succeed in the initial attack, he cannot spend those advantages to hit with the second attack.

 

Edit: Thanks to Atraangelis for pointing out a misinterpretation I had with the rules. My examples have been modified to properly reflect the rules.

Edited by kaosoe

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I believe that you are incorrect in example 2 and 4 (and your explanations in 1 and 3). The rules state that, "He then increases the difficulty by one if the two skills in the combined check were the same, and by two if they were different." It is not referring to the difficulty of the check, but the skill itself.

 
For example 2, the skill used for the sword is Melee and the blaster is Ranged (Light). Different skills means an increase of 2.
 
For example 4, you're using 2 blasters pistols which will both be Ranged (Light). Same skills means an increase of 1.

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Yeah, basically -

  • 2 of the same weapon : +1 difficulty
  • 2 different weapons : +2 difficulty

For different ranges of the attack, even if it's the same weapon type, I believe you would use the hardest difficulty of the two as your base difficulty, then apply the difficulty modifiers for DW.

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Alright, I think I've got it. Now I'll just have to give it a shot, though it seems like it would often be extremely difficult and (possibly) not worth it.

Has anyone see it effectively come into play?

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Well it's like anything difficult in life, if you don't have the skill and the physical attributes it won't be repeatable consistently. You have to build a character around being able to do it.  A good Agility, skill points invested, Aiming, Mods on weapons, etc.  They all come together to make it something you can count on.

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Yes, I made a Duro gunslinger NPC as a sidekick/ally for my son, he had twin blaster pistols and Ranged (Light) dice pool of YYY.  It definitely paid off, especially against minions.  The worst range was Medium so the total dice pool was YYYPPP.  So I think if your dice pool is YYGG or YYY vs PPP or less, it starts working pretty well.

 

But if you start mixing skills and difficulties you'd have to be probably YYYGG or YYYY in the worse skill.

Edited by whafrog

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Alright, I think I've got it. Now I'll just have to give it a shot, though it seems like it would often be extremely difficult and (possibly) not worth it.

Has anyone see it effectively come into play?

My scoundrel uses it almost all the time in a serious firefight.  It's always worth trying to use it, sort of like 'aim'.  I mean, if you hit with the first, and and get your advantage to hit with the second it's a nice take down :)

 

Just remember:  Apply your damage from each weapon separately...  That means each attack has to be mitigated by the soak on it's own.  I know that sounds basic, but believe me, it's easy for someone to not think about it and add all the damage from both weapons together into one hit.  It doesn't work like that :)

 

And yeah, like it's been stated before, you really sort of need to have the dice pool to make this worthwhile.  Rolling something like GGY, probably isn't going to be worth the extra difficulty added.  But if you're tossing something like my scoundrel, YYYG or better...hell yeah it's worth using!

Edited by djext1

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One of my players is running a Nautalan marauder who loves sub-repeaters and pistols.

 

He and his buddies burst into an imperial communications station and he leveled his two pistols at the guards. He failed in a coercion check to force them to drop their weapons, so fighting broke out. He rolled high on initiative so he shot at them with both blasters. He rolled two successes and three advantage, which triggered both guns. Since they were minions and there were only two of them, his net 18 damage exactly enough to drop both of them instantly.

 

I narrated it as him firing twice, taking both guards in the head instantly and dropping them.

 

I explained to him that his auto-fire sub-repeater is probably a better weapon choice (slightly higher chance of hitting) but he loved the idea of having two blasters. He also thought it would be more intimidating when he tried his coercion check, which I agreed with and gave him an extra boost (though he still failed).

Edited by Blue Dog

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For those interested in a bit of minor crunch exploitation...

 

One of the side effects of the primary weapon/then secondary weapon set up, is that you can make your primary pistol as accurate as possible (superior and accurate quality, laser scope), but don't bother with the second gun. Instead max out its blaster actuating module (or just use a disruptor) for the sick damage and let your first shot guide its deadly punch to its target.

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For those interested in a bit of minor crunch exploitation...

 

One of the side effects of the primary weapon/then secondary weapon set up, is that you can make your primary pistol as accurate as possible (superior and accurate quality, laser scope), but don't bother with the second gun. Instead max out its blaster actuating module (or just use a disruptor) for the sick damage and let your first shot guide its deadly punch to its target.

I was actually writing up a forum post on just that situation! Great minds, I suppose. ;)

After digging around in the rules, I haven't found anything that says it wouldn't work, and my reasoning for allowing it is that allows characters who use lighter weapons to beef up their damage output, without having to pull out some Auto-Fire monster gun.

 

In the case of blaster pistols, it looks like a toss-up between the Lancer and the HL-27 for a good primary weapon. Both have Accurate 1, but the HL-27 has a lower Crit rating, while the Lancer has more hardpoints and built-in Pierce 2.

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