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PhilOfCalth

Can a Devastator Marine Technically Carry 2 Heavy Weapons

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Hahahaha, the boom cart xD I think I might tell someone they have to have servitors carry all their excess crap if they REALLY want to carry an unheard of amount of weaponry.

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Like Annaamarth said the limitation here and it comes down to GM discretion is where on his body the character is stowing this ****, way back when they were still culturally relevant the guys at Rooster Teeth physically demonstrated what the DOOM Marine would actually look like carrying his dozen or so guns. Weight aside it was impossibly awkward and silly looking so even with the sky high lift and carry limits it's not feasible to carry more than one heavy weapon unless say you're carrying nothing but two heavy weapons which still ends up being somewhat silly.

 

That being said going into video game **** once again I do think the Halo style two weapon +grenades limit is somewhat flawed in many respects, I do think the more Gears of War two basic+pistol thing makes more sense or alternatively one heavy pistol or one heavy+basic. Figure your average melee weapon aside from the astartes scout knife counts as a basic.

 

Hey if you want a gun caddy that's what servitors and chapter serfs are for, if you want some guy to just carry guns for you that should be doable.

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Like Annaamarth said the limitation here and it comes down to GM discretion is where on his body the character is stowing this ****, way back when they were still culturally relevant the guys at Rooster Teeth physically demonstrated what the DOOM Marine would actually look like carrying his dozen or so guns. Weight aside it was impossibly awkward and silly looking so even with the sky high lift and carry limits it's not feasible to carry more than one heavy weapon unless say you're carrying nothing but two heavy weapons which still ends up being somewhat silly.

 

Vsauce3 also did something about how much you can feasibly carry in some games as well:

 

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Which Codex:Space Marine infantry model has more than one basic or heavy weapon though? Just because you're Deathwatch it doesn't necessarily mean you can choose whatever you like, it's all subject to the Watch Captain's (and Forgemaster's) discretion still. And I would consider either who approve of such shenanigans fairly lax. Probably not impossible but fairly unusual.

 

Even using a Servitor as caddy is possible but a bit doubtful. It speaks of a Marine who can't make a strategic choice and adapt to circumstances as necessary. If you had a Signature Wargear item and you'd buy a Servo-Skull to serve it to you when needed, that would be a different thing!

 

Alex

 

PS In essence, the caddy only serves to circumvent the necessity to make the right guess at Requisition stage. So normally I would come down hard on it because it's an integral part of play.

Edited by ak-73
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I wouldn't use the caddy to carry a plasma cannon, and it's generally not for weapons (except melta bombs, possibly grenades and maybe disposable one-shot launchers).  It's for tools- camoleoline tarps for building a hidden camp, or climbing gear for scaling the exterior of a hive spire, for example.  Similarly, I wouldn't take a servitor or a serf into the field- I'd be dragging the thing myself; having a servitor or serf stomping around in the brush would be tactically unsound.

 

I wouldn't let someone take additional primary weapons with it were I gming- as previously mentioned, those are ancient arms and sacred relics.  I would, however, allow someone to fill his little red wagon with melta bombs, promethium and trip wires, and use it to booby trap the area approaching a hide, where he might camp out with, say, a stalker and a heavy bolter.  So the kill team goes in and does whatever, then they coming running back to the extraction zone with their hidden Brother up on a hill picking off leaders.  As the kill-team gets closer to the booby-trapped area, he voxes guidance through the the dangerous area.  Their pursuers get no such guidance, and start tripping over 40k equivalent claymores.

 

In essence, it's sacrificing the requisition you might use for heavier arms and armour for a versatile selection of tools- that you may have to abandon, because a little red wagon can't go everywhere, and it's better suited to support than infiltration. I think that's wholly in the spirit of requisition: determining your role in the coming mission.

 

Re: Codex:Space Marines infantry model with more than one basic or heavy weapon: terminators with missile packs and Storm Bolters.   ;)

 

As a side note, weren't you arguing in another thread about how GW Crunch Marines fall short of GW Fluff Marines?  I could easily see a bolter maglocked to the side of a heavy bolter ammo pack.

 

Unrelatedly, you are now picturing a Radio Flyer stacked chest high with meltabombs and missiles bouncing down a hill at a Hive Tyrant.

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There's realism for the sake of fun, then there's realism to the point of nauseating the players who either don't want to decide between a couple of chain swords and a bolter, or who would like the strategic option of having a heavy flamer plus a couple of bolters. Read the opening to the Deathwatch Armoury section on 138 p. You'll see that, in fact, the Deathwatch is quite a lot different than any other chapter. They have a much broader and deeper access to weaponry to combat a myriad of foes with more specifically applied forces of fire power. They should always have the right tool for the job, and what's more, they should practically have a limitless supply. Their supply of ammunition and weapons has limits, but functionally, for a Kill-Team, the five or six marines should never reach those limits.

What's more is they aren't fighting drawn out conflicts with redundant enemies and reused scenarios. You wont find a Deathwatch Space Marine on a battle line for months on end hucking the bolts from the same rifle at an endless onslaught of Orks. It would be very odd if a grunt from a random battle line copped up to his superior to say, "Hey, uh, mind if I take a flamer to these guys? Ya know, just for a change of pace?"

But for the Deathwatch, they specifically are tasked with going up against the absolute toughest Xenos encounters to protect mankind. That's literally what they do. They insert into highly specialized missions and are disconnected from their Watch Stations or a Watch Fortress. They could drop pod onto a dead planet for a week-long escort mission ending in an assault on an enemy fortification and the only weapons and ammunition they'll have reliably is what they take with them.

These small bands of marines are supposed to have improved combat efficiencies so it makes sense that a Tactical Marine would want a stalker bolter to help lead and guide his team during marches on open ground but switch to a storm bolter on his hip and toss the sniper rifle on his back when he has to lead his Kill-Team into a Tyranid filled cavern system.

It's not a matter of lack of supply, or lack of willingness to relinquish it, the Deathwatch custom is to make sure it's Kill-Teams are appropriately equipped. There are dozens of scenarios Kill-Teams will encounter after they leave the Watch Station/Fortress and it is the Deathwatch's Forgemaster's duty to make sure they have the tools they need to overcome those challenges.

These aren't grunts, that's why they're in the Deathwatch in the first place. They are the elite Space Marines from their chapters (haven't you read that quote that I can't repeat to you for sake of copyright?).

So not only does it make quite a lot of sense that the Deathwatch marines have a greater liberty in gear choices, but also as a game designed to be fun it makes sense to allow players to vary their load out choices so they can actually enjoy the game. If the reason you're not allowing your players to pick up a bolter and a lasgun isn't because it's game breaking, or because it's against the mechanics, but because the lore irks you the wrong way, then there's justification for that. But it only goes so far. At the end of the day, if a player has more fun roasting Xenos with a larger variety of weapons than the lore (that doesn't totally apply to the Deathwatch) allows, then consider stretching the lore so the person doesn't feel like they actually joined the armed forces.

It's meant to be fun. It's supposed to be fun. The rules are there to enhance and guide the fun, not make playing the game a chore.

Edited by Harpazo
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Well phrased.  I still think that requisition should be a matter of choice, and I would still be surprised if a GM let one of my co-players (or me) get away with hauling a heavy flamer, a stalker and a missile launcher into the field.

 

I'm also not entirely sure that DW should be a game of lascannon-heavy bolter-horde.  (In case you weren't sure, lascannon beats heavy bolter, heavy bolter beats horde and horde beats lascannon.  It may seem obvious, but I just wanted to make sure.  also, I have no idea what the hand motions are for that.)

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I'm not saying a given character might not be able to req both a heavy bolter and a lascannon, just not carry both at the same time. When they deploy from a Thunderhawk or have an operational base I think it's legit to leave a load-out swap there.

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That's a good idea too, sure.  Crude, now I need to go through the books and see if you can requisition gun servitors.

 

Because having a prepared firebase at your EZ might be incredibly useful.  Assuming you managed to make a stop at the EZ before you riled everything up, anyway.

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That's a good idea too, sure.  Crude, now I need to go through the books and see if you can requisition gun servitors.

 

Because having a prepared firebase at your EZ might be incredibly useful.  Assuming you managed to make a stop at the EZ before you riled everything up, anyway.

Doesn't really work with drop pods, though, which is the most common way that Deathwatch deploy. My players have frequently done it with Thunderhawks.

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Doesn't really work with drop pods, though, which is the most common way that Deathwatch deploy. My players have frequently done it with Thunderhawks.

 

This may be stretching it a bit, but couldn't you just use a drop pod for equipment only? Like in the Space Marine videogame (though with a plausible explanation rather than making it an obvious game mechanical).

 

One pod for the Marines, another for their surplus wargear. Like ... with paratroopers who have their heavy equipment dropped in extra crates!

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RoB P171
All vehicles dont use requisition, they need only to meet the renown requirements and the GM approve it while preparing. Drop pots require renown of "Initiate"

 

RoB also has the rules for strategic assets in the field. As a rough guess though crunching numbers I'd only charge say 10-20 requisition for the pod and the rest is part of their standard loadout. This is because tank support is something like 50-60 and arguably this isnt tank support and not even on par with the firepower a decent tank can dish out.

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Doesn't really work with drop pods, though, which is the most common way that Deathwatch deploy. My players have frequently done it with Thunderhawks.

 

This may be stretching it a bit, but couldn't you just use a drop pod for equipment only? Like in the Space Marine videogame (though with a plausible explanation rather than making it an obvious game mechanical).

 

One pod for the Marines, another for their surplus wargear. Like ... with paratroopers who have their heavy equipment dropped in extra crates!

 

I was just thinking that as I read this thread! In the Space Marine PC game they routinely have drop pods to switch out situational (why is this red-lined) encounters with a chance to switch back at the end.

It's like how Halo did it where you would just come upon random territory/ground and pods would hail down from orbit to give you reinforcements from afar.

There could be a houserule that in order to use a drop pod it would take an additional 10 requisition per weapon and they'd have to carry all of their weapons back with them (machine spirits/limited weaponry and all that).

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RoB P171

All vehicles dont use requisition, they need only to meet the renown requirements and the GM approve it while preparing. Drop pots require renown of "Initiate"

 

RoB also has the rules for strategic assets in the field. As a rough guess though crunching numbers I'd only charge say 10-20 requisition for the pod and the rest is part of their standard loadout. This is because tank support is something like 50-60 and arguably this isnt tank support and not even on par with the firepower a decent tank can dish out.

...can... can I call in a drop pod to hit an enemy? Like.. if it actually hit it would obliterate the darn thing... right?

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...can... can I call in a drop pod to hit an enemy? Like.. if it actually hit it would obliterate the darn thing... right?

 

No, but you can call in a Lance Strike, for example.

 

 

It's meant to be fun. It's supposed to be fun. The rules are there to enhance and guide the fun, not make playing the game a chore.

 

If the players need to have a candyman GM to make the game fun, then we might indeed have a problem.

"Hey, GM, the game isn't fun to me if I can't request a Titan and ride on its back into the Hive invasion."

"Yeah, but the game isn't fun to me if you can; maybe look for a different campaign, buddy."

 

It's fun to make the player have to guess at mission prep. It's fun to watch them having to deal with the consequences of their choices. Conversely, it's no fun to imagine a bunch of Space Marines kitted each with Storm Bolter in hand and another basic weapon slung around the shoulder. That is not how Space Marines, even Deathwatch Space Marines, are portrayed as. On no illustration and not as minis. If you prefer it that way, fine.

 

Not in my game though. There's not even negotiating over that. What is permissible is storing an extra weapon or two per team in a Rhino, for example. Special munitions Drop Pod only if the mission requires prolonged fighting instead of a quick in-and-out. These are exceptional missions for the Deathwatch though. Normally, it's in-and-out. No sitting war.

 

Alex

 

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RoB P171

All vehicles dont use requisition, they need only to meet the renown requirements and the GM approve it while preparing. Drop pots require renown of "Initiate"

 

RoB also has the rules for strategic assets in the field. As a rough guess though crunching numbers I'd only charge say 10-20 requisition for the pod and the rest is part of their standard loadout. This is because tank support is something like 50-60 and arguably this isnt tank support and not even on par with the firepower a decent tank can dish out.

...can... can I call in a drop pod to hit an enemy? Like.. if it actually hit it would obliterate the darn thing... right?

There's nothing in the rules saying you can't, its not got stats but you can homebrew it. In any case when these things hit something its likely to hurt...a lot. Problem is that the accuracy is dire so if you do hit something with it then you are laughing but the odds of hitting a small target or squad is slim to none.

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There's nothing in the rules saying you can't, its not got stats but you can homebrew it. In any case when these things hit something its likely to hurt...a lot. Problem is that the accuracy is dire so if you do hit something with it then you are laughing but the odds of hitting a small target or squad is slim to none.

 

In theory, you could have the Techmarine try to modify it so that it could be remote controlled from another drop pod. Assuming that wasn't innovation aka heresy! :D The question is why - when macrocannon shells do the same without destroying a drop pod.

 

Alex

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There's nothing in the rules saying you can't, its not got stats but you can homebrew it. In any case when these things hit something its likely to hurt...a lot. Problem is that the accuracy is dire so if you do hit something with it then you are laughing but the odds of hitting a small target or squad is slim to none.

 

In theory, you could have the Techmarine try to modify it so that it could be remote controlled from another drop pod. Assuming that wasn't innovation aka heresy! :D The question is why - when macrocannon shells do the same without destroying a drop pod.

 

Alex

 

Dynamic entry? Would look rather stylish having a drop pod smash into an enemy squad, crushing them. In the confusion the doors burst open and out spring a heavily armed kill team, guns blazing. But yes for all accounts drop pods are not practical as siege weapons but they will flatten most things they hit if they do hit something.

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There's nothing in the rules saying you can't, its not got stats but you can homebrew it.

 

Well, my team used it as "dynamic entry" once. There was a ballistic skill test from the guy firing them in the general direction(with a large malus), and then they had to pilote(with decreasing malus) for each of his DoF to adjust the trajectory towards their target(took them some faith, they really wanted to score a hit). When they hit their target, I made an estimation for the damage the drop pod would have suffered from falling damage and applied it on their target. *splash*

Edited by Avdnm

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