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Kainus

How/ Will you purchase Dark Heresy 2e?

85 posts in this topic

This is just something I've been wondering about since the end of the Beta, but since then I've realized what little interest I have in purchasing the game in any physical form.

I suppose that this directly ties in with whether or not you actually plan on running the system after its release, but I am curious how this population of the Dark Heresy community (forum-posters who represent a niche of FFG's demographic) will consume the book, if at all. 

 

I'm still in the group of people who dislike the changes resulting in the current Beta, but I can't deny that the prospect of a new Dark Heresy product tempts me to purchase it in the physical format, if even for the new art and shelf value.

 

However, I know that isn't nearly a practical investment. I'm still aiming to take advantage (and likely purchase physical copies) of any sourcebooks released by FFG, for the sake of converting them to the system I've hashed out of the first Beta. I participated in the Only War Beta and have purchased sourcebooks for the line, yet I haven't purchased the physical copy of the Core Rulebook and don't plan on doing so. Since I've already purchased a $20 investment into a system which I likely won't play, netting me the digital copy of the rulebook, purchasing a physical copy of the rulebook is useless for me. 

 

I'm just curious what everyone's plans for purchasing the new system are.

If you are a nay-sayer, what price would the rulebook have to be in order to convince you to purchase it? $50, $45, $40, etc.

 

Then again, we don't know what content in the Beta will be changed by the final release, something I can observe in the digital copy that will likely influence my purchase. But for the purpose of this discussion, assume that everything that was in the Beta and subsequent updates (excluding minor typos) is published in the new edition.

 

Edit: Also, if you were not included in the Beta, will you pirate the book? For what reasons?

Edited by Kainus

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I shelled out the $20 for the beta and will not be purchasing any DH2 material. 

 

The system they've shown us doesn't offer me anything new or interesting in terms of game mechanics (I own DH1 and OW), and aside from idle fluff reading there just isn't enough to hold my interest. Price has nothing to do with it for me; what I've seen just hasn't made me want to play the game (and that's the only reason I'd spend money on a game, to play it).

 

The final product will be mostly the same as what we had at the end of the beta. They'll clean up areas and smooth things out a bit, but we've seen the fundamentals of what the game will be.

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If I was going to be buying this, I'd probably want the fancy limited edition like they did with Deathwatch and Black Crusade. They don't seem to make those anymore though, if Only War is any indication. Kinda a shame, they look really cool and I'm a sucker for stupid expensive versions of things.

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I shelled out the $20 for the beta and will not be purchasing any DH2 material. 

 

The system they've shown us doesn't offer me anything new or interesting in terms of game mechanics (I own DH1 and OW), and aside from idle fluff reading there just isn't enough to hold my interest. Price has nothing to do with it for me; what I've seen just hasn't made me want to play the game (and that's the only reason I'd spend money on a game, to play it).

That's exactly how I feel too.

We've been playing the Beta and encountered many rules issues, sometimes we reverted to Only War rules (we were used to these at least) and the DH1 rulebook looked more and more like a worthwhile step back: even though it was a little clumsy, imo, it still allows for more diverse improvement and didn't hold some of our characters back as did the aptitudes system (which worked fine in Only War because of the "war" focus).

Several rules still don't make sense, some talents are a waste of XP, the aptitudes aren't balanced - our GM had to make many house rules already to keep the game flowing so why pay for the rulebook if you still have to write your own? If they actually manage to improve the rules upon release (I doubt that) I might reconsider buying the book.

 

In fact we're now even debating whether to play Dark Heresy with the Savage Worlds rules system. - If anyone knows a nice conversion, please let me know ;)

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You're assuming there will be no changes from the current beta and the final printing. 

 

There most likely will be.

 

I'll buy it, but I dunno if I'll ever get to play it :)

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You're assuming there will be no changes from the current beta and the final printing. 

 

There most likely will be.

 

I'll buy it, but I dunno if I'll ever get to play it :)

Well, for the purpose of this discussion, I felt like that was a ground rule that needed to be established unless the wishlisting began again (I will purchase only if X is Y) and we've had that thread before.

 

In fact we're now even debating whether to play Dark Heresy with the Savage Worlds rules system. - If anyone knows a nice conversion, please let me know ;)

 

I would actually recommend Fate Core or Strands of Fate (if you want things a little crunchier), but a Savage Heresy is something I've definitely looked for. A quick google search gave me this: http://savageheresy.wikidot.com/crypt-archives but I imagine you've already seen it.

Edited by Kainus
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Thanks for searching! The site was indeed known to me and it's probably the one we'll use if we go for the SW rules, though our GM announced he might have found something else - not sure what, yet.

 

I have a copy of Fate Core and suggested it to the group already but it seems they're a little intimidated by the "new way" it works. I know of at least one pretty good Fate system for Warhammer 40K but my group is more comfortable with SW, I think.

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Thanks for searching! The site was indeed known to me and it's probably the one we'll use if we go for the SW rules, though our GM announced he might have found something else - not sure what, yet.

 

I have a copy of Fate Core and suggested it to the group already but it seems they're a little intimidated by the "new way" it works. I know of at least one pretty good Fate system for Warhammer 40K but my group is more comfortable with SW, I think.

Oh, would you happen to have the link for the 40k conversion of Fate?

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I was looking (closely) at Strands of Fate myself. Found existing conversions that were pretty good, too.

 

But currently I'm playing around with Fate Accelerated Edition. I've realized I don't really care about all the crunchy details, and just want to spin an exiting yarn. And FAE delivers.

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With the discount for having purchased the Beta (assuming I actually receive it this time, I never got the notification for the OW discount), I will most likely get the physical rulebook. I'm not thrilled with the final Beta, too many unnecessary changes IMO, but on the whole I liked it so I'll get it.

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I shelled out the $20 for the beta and will not be purchasing any DH2 material. 

 

The system they've shown us doesn't offer me anything new or interesting in terms of game mechanics (I own DH1 and OW), and aside from idle fluff reading there just isn't enough to hold my interest. Price has nothing to do with it for me; what I've seen just hasn't made me want to play the game (and that's the only reason I'd spend money on a game, to play it).

 

The final product will be mostly the same as what we had at the end of the beta. They'll clean up areas and smooth things out a bit, but we've seen the fundamentals of what the game will be.

 

That's pretty much what I was about to post.

 

My group has been playing (non-40k) Fate Accelerated Edition for a while now and are loving it. I imagine if we ever go back to 40k, it'll be some sort of Fate conversion.

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Like Kainus we took what was in the first beta and ran with it, and we're definitely not going back to DH2e. Though even if we hadn't, I'd have a tough time justifying a switch to DH2e to myself, as it consists almost entirely of minor tweaks and, like DH1e, does pretty much nothing to support the supposed focus of the game; mystery & intrigue.

 

We may end up buying sourcebooks, but at least for now we're perfectly happy playing around in the Calixis sector, and I'm pretty sure that if I was going to run a game set elsewhere, it'd be be in M36 and on Terra.

 

As for pirating stuff, my attitude is that everyone deserves fair pay for their labour. And if you consider their labour worthless, surely there's no reason for you to download it, is there? So... Don't be a ****, basically.

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Another alternative for people who want something other than DH to run DH in is GUMSHOE. There's a fairly well done (albiet with some design decisions I hate) conversion out there for it, it's in a nicely formatted PDF and everything. Suits very well if you play up the investigation angle of DH. Wouldn't recommend it in any other case, though.

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I would have bought DH2 even if it was nothing more than a fully errata'd version of DH1. I'm a bit disappointed that it won't be as much of an evolutionary step forward from BC/OW as those games were from DH1/RT/DW, but that's not a deal breaker for me- certainly preferable to a bug-filled, incompatable re-write.

 

And, since most of my gaming is driven by nostalgia for the early days of RPG, I'll definitely be buying the hardback.

Edited by Adeptus-B
Snowman0147, Elior and khimaera like this

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Beginning circa 2000, White Dwarf steadily shifted from a hobbyists magazine to a monthly pile of crap. Articles about terrain building, campaigns, and additions to the 40K setting were replaced by "BUY THIS NOW!" Ten years later, 40K prices have outpaced my gaming budget, and I no longer play the table top. The 40K RPGS (and Black Library...and rarely at that) are from where my 40K "fix" has continued to flow, so I might- might- purchase DH2e for the fluff.

 

But I won't be playing it as a game. Firstly, like Simsum, I've taken what I want from the first representation of DH2e and expanded upon that (and many suggestions from other Original Beta participants). Secondly, I've moved on- since the 40K RPGs have stewed into stagnation for too long- and I'm utilizing the SWRPG system for the core, with 40K simply being the setting dressing.

 

I look at it this way: at least we finally received an official 40K RPG.

Edited by Brother Orpheo

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For anyone who liked the cancelled Dark Heresy beta, Kainus - the most excellent poster of this very thread - has compiled a PDF full of fixes to the iffy bits of that system, as well as optional and alternative house rules. You can find it over at Dark Reign. Just mind that you will need the original PDF of the cancelled beta to use it.

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My book shelves are way, way to overburdened so I will only buy PDF from this point on, with the exception of the core which will go as a physical copy.

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For anyone who liked the cancelled Dark Heresy beta, Kainus - the most excellent poster of this very thread - has compiled a PDF full of fixes to the iffy bits of that system, as well as optional and alternative house rules. You can find it over at Dark Reign. Just mind that you will need the original PDF of the cancelled beta to use it.

You flatter me immensely. :unsure:  I've been meaning to make some modifications to my current document, but for those interested, I'll post what I'm working with here:

-Overcharge for Cybernetics needs to be toned down (mainly because I have a player abusing them at the moment)- I'm considering a +20 bonus for an Overcharged characteristic, requiring a fatigue to be gained at the beginning of each player's turn it remains active. This can be modified to a fatigue per conflict (i.e. test) when running in Narrative Time.

-I'm still trying to streamline the Wound system, but nothing short of implementing WFRP 3e condition cards seems to be fitting what I want for combat. I'm leaning towards allowing the players to define the conditions they inflict, with either: Weakened (1), Crippled, or Stunned (1) and (depending upon the weapon type) Burning (3) (E), Fatigue (3) (I), or Dazed (2) ® triggering whenever Righteous Fury occurs. Otherwise, Wounds are dealt with as per EK's Modifications. 

Also, here is the link: http://darkreign.org/download/ezra-kainus-dark-heresy-living-23-modificaitions-ver-0223-01-2014#disqus_thread

Edited by Kainus
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Yes I will be picking it up.  It is just what my group is looking for and will get alot lot lot more play than anything that resembles whfrp 3 or eote.

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Oh yeah I am picking it up.  I am happy that it is a updated version of Only War to be honest.  I hated the old beta and while there are certain aspects I like about it I won't lie.  In my opinion the old beta was utter **** in terms of combat.  My group played it and ended up arguing over rate of fire rules for a hour in the middle of combat against only three elites.  Just the rate of fire rules alone we wasted a hour.  Never in the history of my group did that happen and frankly that is not forgive able. 

 

You want to know how I ended it?  I had a npc use a power to bless everyone with vengence 8 trait so the elites can auto die as soon as a righteous fury is rolled.  Yeah it was that lame because it was suppose to be a short combat scene.  Maybe a half a hour at the most.  Instead it took two hours to do and half of it was figuring out the horrible rules.

 

We never had a issue with 40K before and with Dark Heresy 2 being in its current state we won't have any issues with it again.  Go ahead and hate on it all you want.  Go ahead and call me old man grognard, or whatever.  Point is the Only War stuff works because it was built on a system that works.  So yeah I am going to buy it.  Both pdf and hard copy when I get the chance.

c8tiff, khimaera and LuciusT like this

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Haven't posted in forever, but no, I won't be picking this up. The last straw for me was seeing the updates after asking for feedback on the "Narrative" Chapter. I wrote up a pretty detailed critique of all the problems with the section, and as has been mentioned, the book provides almost no mechanical backing for the investigation themes of the game. There were zero updates to the narrative chapter beyond some word clarification for sanity powers. This, combined with the various unaddressed rules/fun issues intrinsic to the system as a whole, the lack of any sort of innovation to the system (why would I want a new edition of a game I've already invested in unless the system is new?), and the general incompatibility of the game system with the actual theme of the game have put me off of it completely. Basically, whatever benefit of a doubt I was willing to give this rules system was dashed by the lack of care I saw to the actual narrative aspect of it.

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Well Nim, if it helps you any, when the rules come out, I will be happy to write a detailed note on whether they addressed any of your concerns in the final produced book.  Alot of times a finished copy will have addressed concerns like yours, but it didn't take up a public discussion during beta.

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I wrote up a pretty detailed critique of all the problems with the section, and as has been mentioned, the book provides almost no mechanical backing for the investigation themes of the game. 

 

Wow, can you post/give a link to this critique? We never had a problem with the investigation part during our trial sessions, and now I'm really curious about the issues we missed. 

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