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Rhinoviru3

Decloaking spoiled

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Can't attack but certainly can take actions... 4 evade possibly up to 6 depending upon position with focus? I'm not exactly that happy about gunning it down even with a falcon...

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That can't be right, though. I've been assured multiple times over the last couple of weeks, on this very forum, that Rebels are the faction FFG likes best--and as a result the Imperial metagame is boring and destined to remain based around swarms. And now you think you can convince me that both factions are getting shiny new toys? That's unpossible!

 

I don't think anyone really questioned that the Imperials would be getting some nifty stuff in Wave 4.  Did they?  Other than some of the crazy people who use caps too much and punctuation too little?

 

The Phantom is going to be interesting, but I think we're in the middle of the opposite of the "DOOOM!" phase, which is the "OMG AWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOME!" phase, which is honestly just as bad.  I think the Phantom's going to be very good, but it's also going to be very vulnerable to stress (which will keep it from cloaking) and ionization (which will keep it from decloaking), and we don't actually know what the dial looks like yet.

 

I love the idea of the uber-move when decloaking, but it remains to be seen where the line draws between advantage and hindrance.  You MUST complete the move in order to decloak.  You can't land on a ship, and you can't cross a rock.  I can very easily see furballs where you want to decloak but can't because it ends up blocked.  Then you have to complete your maneuver anyway...  That's going to be a painful counter for the high-PS Advanced Cloaking Device builds, as a good opponent is going to do everything possible to close you down on that.

 

If you're going to get all snarky about people thinking something's a problem before knowing how it will actually play out, you should probably make sure you're not declaring something shiny and awesome before you see how it's going to play out, shouldn't you?

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a cloaked ship CANNOT take actions.

Why can't it?

 

 

 

 

 

a cloaked ship CANNOT take actions.

Why not?

 

Yeah, I have seen nothing to say that they can not take actions.

 

I too seem to be having trouble reading.

 

Whoa... Totally misread the card... I swear it said actions the first 2 times I saw it!

 

Either this cloaking device is so powerful we can't read it properly... or FFG is editing it back and forth just to mess with us.

 

EDITING EARLIER POSTS

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Whoa... Totally misread the card... I swear it said actions the first 2 times I saw it!

well it does say you can't attack and it also says you can't take the take the cloaking action a 2nd time. So it's not too hard to see how you could make that mistake.

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I read it twice to make sure I saw it right the first time... checked it again right before I posted...still misread it... that cloaking device is strong.

 

With that out of the way I fell much better about cloaking... still think they just designed a better interceptor:

4 "situational" agility

"4" attack dice (sometimes 5, but having to move 2 will take it out of range 1 fairly often)

Movement shenanigans

High cost ship that can still be one shot/killed by less points than you spent on it.

 

ALL THAT... and I'll still be flying them both.

Edited by Rakky Wistol

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Ok, mind blown over on TC.

 

Whisper with PTL, Advanced Sensors, and Stygium Particle Accelerator.  Starting from cloak, she could:

 

Decloak.  Make a 2 Barrel Roll to one side (lets call it right), and grab an evade token.  Then, Advanced Sensor to Barrel Roll 1 to the same side.  Push the Limit to Cloak.  Immediately Decloak again (decloaking is a token expenditure, not an action), make ANOTHER 2 Barrel Roll to that side (for those keeping track, she is now effectively 8 to the side).  Reveal a 1-Turn back.  She would end up about 7 to the side, facing her target.  She could fire, and might even get a focus for her trouble.

 

Final?  7 (!) ship lengths to one side, facing her opponent, with a Focus and an Evade to use against incoming fire.  Blech.

 

Edit:  ALL of this starts at PS 7, so she should know exactly where to go in order to frustrate opponents.  Don't even get started on the extra shenanigans she could pull with crew (Recon Specialist, Navigator, Gunner leap to mind).

Edited by KineticOperator

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The Autoblaster is the definite counter to cloaking, as the extra defense dice afford by the increased agility are moot. And on the flip side, any craft with and autoblaster (currently only B-wings) will become priority targets.

 

RogueMorgan

Autoblaster is range 1. Given the Phantom's ludicrous mobility, not exactly a range the B-wing will find its target in often.

 

 

As I posted, if you take Ten Numb - AutoBlaster - Push the Limit - Advanced Sensors - Engine Upgrade = A B-wing with the same ability to maneuver as a Tie Fighter. You could take Ibtisam and use the stress token to your advantage as well. But with Ten Number if you roll 3 hits and 1 crit. The enemy won't be able to cancel any of them without a Evade Token. Which means it can do this setup.

 

1. Before reveal Maneuver Dial activate Advanced Sensors

2. Barrel Roll or Boost Action

3. Trigger PtL and take second Action. (Be it the Boost/Barrel roll you didn't take in step two. Maybe focus/target lock)

4. Assign Stress Token

5. Reveal Maneuver Dial

 

You pull off this maneuver when you know you need to close in to the Tie Phantom and since Ten Numb is higher PS. He WILL shoot the Tie Phantom before it can recloak after attacking, if it takes Advanced Cloaking Device.

Edited by Arithion

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Ok, mind blown over on TC.

 

Whisper with PTL, Advanced Sensors, and Stygium Particle Accelerator.  Starting from cloak, she could:

 

Decloak.  Make a 2 Barrel Roll to one side (lets call it right), and grab an evade token.  Then, Advanced Sensor to Barrel Roll 1 to the same side.  Push the Limit to Cloak.  Immediately Decloak again (decloaking is a token expenditure, not an action), make ANOTHER 2 Barrel Roll to that side (for those keeping track, she is now effectively 8 to the side).  Reveal a 1-Turn back.  She would end up about 7 to the side, facing her target.  She could fire, and might even get a focus for her trouble.

 

Final?  7 (!) ship lengths to one side, facing her opponent, with a Focus and an Evade to use against incoming fire.  Blech.

 

Edit:  ALL of this starts at PS 7, so she should know exactly where to go in order to frustrate opponents.  Don't even get started on the extra shenanigans she could pull with crew (Recon Specialist, Navigator, Gunner leap to mind).

I'd rather have the Advanced Cloak so Whisper could cloak again after firing and do it all over again next round.

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I don't think anyone really questioned that the Imperials would be getting some nifty stuff in Wave 4.  Did they?  Other than some of the crazy people who use caps too much and punctuation too little?

I wasn't particularly implicating you--we don't always agree, but you've at least thought about your positions. Plus while you may be a pessimist, you're consistent and even-handed with your pessimism, and I can deal with that. (c:

The problem is that a lot of people--too many for me to go back and count without a dangerous blood pressure spike--rushed, in the wake of the Transport and Aces previews, to the conclusion that FFG had stopped caring about faction balance. The combination of Z-95s, cheaper A-wings, and new pilots for Rebel ships meant that Rebel players (a concept I still don't totally get) were getting all the cool stuff, and Imperial players were doomed to keep playing swarms over and over (which isn't even true prior to the Imperial Aces release, but whatever).

The Phantom is going to be interesting, but I think we're in the middle of the opposite of the "DOOOM!" phase, which is the "OMG AWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOME!" phase, which is honestly just as bad.  I think the Phantom's going to be very good, but it's also going to be very vulnerable to stress (which will keep it from cloaking) and ionization (which will keep it from decloaking), and we don't actually know what the dial looks like yet.

What you're saying, though, is that deliberately designed control elements will exert a control effect. As I see it, you're worried that the control elements are too strong, but as it appears now that will be the only thing that causes the Phantom to be a dud.

And of course it is still possible that the Phantom will turn out to be a dud--too easy to kill for it to be consistently worth its point cost. It's also possible that it's too good, too difficult to counter. But a balanced release is also perfectly possible, and if you don't have enough information to forecast reliably, why suppose the worst?

 

I love the idea of the uber-move when decloaking, but it remains to be seen where the line draws between advantage and hindrance.  You MUST complete the move in order to decloak.  You can't land on a ship, and you can't cross a rock.  I can very easily see furballs where you want to decloak but can't because it ends up blocked.  Then you have to complete your maneuver anyway...  That's going to be a painful counter for the high-PS Advanced Cloaking Device builds, as a good opponent is going to do everything possible to close you down on that.

Enhanced Scopes fix that issue, if it's an issue either for the metagame as a whole or for an individual player: except for Enhanced Scopes on your opponent's side, the board geometry will be exactly the same when you activate as it was when you planned your maneuver. And, as an extra bonus, they're cheap, too.

If you're going to get all snarky about people thinking something's a problem before knowing how it will actually play out, you should probably make sure you're not declaring something shiny and awesome before you see how it's going to play out, shouldn't you?

I'm not snarky about people suspecting problems based on incomplete information; I'm snarky about people confirming problems based on incomplete information.

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Well, cloak is an action so even if you had the Advanced Cloaking device you couldn't cloak a second time after the attack.

 

This would never happen, as you can't attack in the same round as you cloaked.  You can, however, decloak, declare a different action, make an attack, and then immediate cloak again from the ACD.

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Ok, mind blown over on TC.

 

Whisper with PTL, Advanced Sensors, and Stygium Particle Accelerator.  Starting from cloak, she could:

 

Decloak.  Make a 2 Barrel Roll to one side (lets call it right), and grab an evade token.  Then, Advanced Sensor to Barrel Roll 1 to the same side.  Push the Limit to Cloak.  Immediately Decloak again (decloaking is a token expenditure, not an action), make ANOTHER 2 Barrel Roll to that side (for those keeping track, she is now effectively 8 to the side).  Reveal a 1-Turn back.  She would end up about 7 to the side, facing her target.  She could fire, and might even get a focus for her trouble.

 

Final?  7 (!) ship lengths to one side, facing her opponent, with a Focus and an Evade to use against incoming fire.  Blech.

 

Edit:  ALL of this starts at PS 7, so she should know exactly where to go in order to frustrate opponents.  Don't even get started on the extra shenanigans she could pull with crew (Recon Specialist, Navigator, Gunner leap to mind).

Whisper with those upgrades is already 40 points before adding a crew card. That doesn't seem viable even with all the movement and the 3 evade tokens. It does seem like a lot of fun to try out, though.

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In my example, you DO attack the same round you cloaked because you cloak using Advanced Sensors, and immediately decloak before entering the attack phase.

 

You still can't take the same action twice in a round though. Though you aren't recloaking after you attack with advanced cloaking device like I thought you had posted so ignore my post. 

Edited by Tanarri

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In my example, you DO attack the same round you cloaked because you cloak using Advanced Sensors, and immediately decloak before entering the attack phase.

 

You still can't take the same action twice in a round though.

Re-read the cards.

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In my example, you DO attack the same round you cloaked because you cloak using Advanced Sensors, and immediately decloak before entering the attack phase.

 

Oh, I'm sorry, I misread.  Now that I understand what you meant, it's really similar to a post I made earlier:

 

So, check this out.  The Phantom can equip system upgrades.  The motion associated with decloak is not an action, therefore you can barrel roll again.  So, you are able to move laterally FIVE BASE WIDTHS before your maneuver, or the equivalent of a 4-straight template.

 

Explanation:

 

Ship bases are squares.  The length of the 1-straight template is the length of 1 base, 2 straight is 2 bases, etc.  Whenever  you perform a maneuver, your ship actually moves one base length further than the speed of your maneuver, so when you perform a 1 straight, your ship base moves 2 base lengths.

When you barrel roll, the case is the same.  When you barrel roll with a 1 straight, you move 2 bases.  Decloak allows you to perform a barrel roll (without spending a barrel roll action) with a speed 2 template, moving your ship 3 base lengths laterally.  With Advanced Sensors, you may then perform a barrel roll before you execute your maneuver.  This barrel roll uses the 1 straight template, moving your ship a further 2 base lengths laterally.  You then perform your maneuver as normal.

So, if you find yourself being shot a lot, even while cloaked, you can move FIVE BASE LENGTHS sideways, avoiding all firing arcs from a swarm or formation.  Then you can still perform your maneuver.

 

And, because of your post, I am discovering the new possibility of combining it with Push the Limit...

You can skip sideways an absurd distance, then re-cloak, then perform your maneuver.  Ridiculous.

 

...-ly awesome.

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Well if it isn't an action and it just happens, does that mean you can see a double barrel roll ? Or double boost ? I forget the phantoms action bar but assuming it can barrel roll on its own and you can engine upgrade it, though I think the advanced cloaking will end up seeing more use with it.

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Ok, mind blown over on TC.

 

Whisper with PTL, Advanced Sensors, and Stygium Particle Accelerator.  Starting from cloak, she could:

 

Decloak.  Make a 2 Barrel Roll to one side (lets call it right), and grab an evade token.  Then, Advanced Sensor to Barrel Roll 1 to the same side.  Push the Limit to Cloak.  Immediately Decloak again (decloaking is a token expenditure, not an action), make ANOTHER 2 Barrel Roll to that side (for those keeping track, she is now effectively 8 to the side).  Reveal a 1-Turn back.  She would end up about 7 to the side, facing her target.  She could fire, and might even get a focus for her trouble.

 

Final?  7 (!) ship lengths to one side, facing her opponent, with a Focus and an Evade to use against incoming fire.  Blech.

 

Edit:  ALL of this starts at PS 7, so she should know exactly where to go in order to frustrate opponents.  Don't even get started on the extra shenanigans she could pull with crew (Recon Specialist, Navigator, Gunner leap to mind).

Decloaking is a token expenditure, not an action, but it is also one that triggers 'immediately before revealing [a] maneuver.'  You might be able to use AdvS to take an action (two with PTL) before executing the decloak movement, but I don't think you would have any way to decloak twice a round - you're only going to reveal your maneuver once, so you can't trigger decloak off of it twice.

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That can't be right, though. I've been assured multiple times over the last couple of weeks, on this very forum, that Rebels are the faction FFG likes best--and as a result the Imperial metagame is boring and destined to remain based around swarms. And now you think you can convince me that both factions are getting shiny new toys? That's unpossible!

 

I know, I've been keeping a sharp eye on the sky all day.

 

I feel there is a slight edge to rebels now with just the ships currently out. That evenly matched lists with evenly skilled players and luck that the rebels would be favored to win(and not by alot just that they would win 60-40 or 55-45). Before this I felt that unless cloak proved useful that wave 4 and rebel transport would increase the gap. Cloak has proved more then useful I like it alot, Will rebels still have that edge? Probably, will it be widening? Probably not.

This

it's a well designed ship but it has obvious and for the rebels and thier stress/ion/turret inducing ways easy drawbacks.

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Ok, mind blown over on TC.

 

Whisper with PTL, Advanced Sensors, and Stygium Particle Accelerator.  Starting from cloak, she could:

 

Decloak.  Make a 2 Barrel Roll to one side (lets call it right), and grab an evade token.  Then, Advanced Sensor to Barrel Roll 1 to the same side.  Push the Limit to Cloak.  Immediately Decloak again (decloaking is a token expenditure, not an action), make ANOTHER 2 Barrel Roll to that side (for those keeping track, she is now effectively 8 to the side).  Reveal a 1-Turn back.  She would end up about 7 to the side, facing her target.  She could fire, and might even get a focus for her trouble.

 

Final?  7 (!) ship lengths to one side, facing her opponent, with a Focus and an Evade to use against incoming fire.  Blech.

 

Edit:  ALL of this starts at PS 7, so she should know exactly where to go in order to frustrate opponents.  Don't even get started on the extra shenanigans she could pull with crew (Recon Specialist, Navigator, Gunner leap to mind).

This...

People aren't seeing the possibilities here, heck even earlier this morning I wasn't seeing all of it myself. If you k turn, decloak.... and then get that move 2 side or straight... powerful...

This is a very cool addition, and admittedly better than I had thought it would be. I was terrified it would end up as lame as Attack Wing is.

I am pleased to see this as something unique with lots of possibilities. The sheer number of moves coming off this ship is... mind boggling. Forget trying to second guess where I come out..

Think about this... you trail one ship, only to decloak and attack another ship a 4 strait move away from the guy you were just on, maybe that low PS ship that didn't think about combat and has no focus, or possibly the injured pilot they were holding back.. BOOM

Gonna make a difference... I for one am looking forward to getting 2 or 3 of these and seeing what I can do to the enemy...

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you're only going to reveal your maneuver once, so you can't trigger decloak off of it twice.

I agree, you can't decloak, cloak and then decloak again in the same turn. By the time you can cloak you've already revealed your dial and gone on do do other things.

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you're only going to reveal your maneuver once, so you can't trigger decloak off of it twice.

I agree, you can't decloak, cloak and then decloak again in the same turn. By the time you can cloak you've already revealed your dial and gone on do do other things.

 

Someone over on TC briefly argued that there's nothing saying you can't decloak twice immediately before revealing your dial (that old chestnut), but I pointed them to page 3 of the FAQ:

 
Q: Can a card effect be used as many times 
as desired when a ship has the opportunity 
to use it?
A: No. A card effect can be used once per opportunity
 
I think you would be hard pressed to argue that decloaking isn't going to qualify.

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