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ScooterinAB

Rebels and the Loot/Money game. Suggestions?

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I'm going to try and pitch an AoR game to half of my group (don't ask), but I'm having trouble with how to handle money and loot. I get the duty mechanic for giving a "promotion" item, but I'm not sure how else to handle it.

See, I gather than EoE handles a bit like Shadowrun. Your main source of funding comes from job payments and occasionally looting during play. But in AoR, you're taking jobs for the Rebellion, a largely political organization that is only sort of paying you (your ship/base of operations, plus gear from duty and handwaving). While it's perfectly appropriate for an Outer Rim scummer to thumb through his kill's wallet, Rebel troops have more pressing and tactful things to do.

So how would you keep the credits rolling? I'm not sure if I'm terribly interested in the credit race, but I don't want to be handing out gear and undermining the victory of rolling over the team's duty. What's an Emperor to do?

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That depends on how they receive their funding.

 

Easiest way is to have them pose as traders or say truckers whose responsibility is to move deliveries from the spaceport to civilian settlements and include payments for those jobs as their means of receiving their funding.

Supplies can be included in these shipments but separated so they can be retrieved en route and reassembled once they've been stashed clear of the shipment to avoid anyone getting suspicious at either end.

Doing jobs for arms merchants or having smugglers as part of your PCs might help here but that still leaves in what form does this funding reach your PCs?

Is it precious gems, bars of precious metals, I recall Han smuggled Corellian Corvette's for a while until an Imperial finally realised what he was doing, but how do you obtain the gear your party needs when an X-Wing should get you shot on sight almost as fast as revealing a lightsaber?

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Perhaps they are on a stipend for the Alliance. Or work it through one of the character's backstory. Perhaps the Ace was from a wealthy family who is now collecting a sort of trust fund that has been broken down into regular payments. You might have to be a little Metagamey with it to your players. "Listen. I know the money is filtered in through this character, but it's intended to go towards the party as a while. So just roll with it."

 

If your Rebels have to go undercover and infiltrate an imperial city, they will need imperial credits. The Alliance should provide them some money.

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I mean, already basically said here, but it def depends on the party composition. Special force engaged in guerilla warfare are going to be expected to supply and arm themselves, thats part of what makes them so effective. So in that case, theyd have a lot of access to imperial gear they loot, they'd want to, if only to make the empire replace the arms and cost them the credits. What they don't take, they'd want to break. However, the standard imperial gear isn't going to fill every need. They will need credits for some things. Rebel alliance air drops will be god sends.

Now, if your party is more like, an Xwing squadron, or troopers, or something more conventional, yes, I can see the problem you might run into. Really, in this sort of a campaign, where it is more of a conventional military nature, you probably don't want to deal with that aspect too much. If the party needs something, they requisition it. When the mission is over, they hand it back in. The rebel alliance might not have everything on hand though, entire adventures can be devoted to getting astromechs or arms or ammunition that the PCs can then later gain access to when they need it.

It really depends on the type of group, tone, and type of campaign you are going for.

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It really depends on the campaign.  IIRC AoR is about the actual rebellion/war.  Not mercs and bounty hunters, which is what EotE is, hence the careers and specializations for Mercenaries and Bounty Hunters are in EotE.  

 

If they want to play a "money and loot" game, it's called Edge of the Empire. (yes, you can play other types of games in EotE, but the specialties and drivers for a money and loot is part and parcel of EotE as well)

 

 

As for Age of Rebellion. 

If they are soldiers at war, than money won't even be in the picture.  Their chain of command will provide re-supple and munitions. 

If they are spies and infiltrators, then the same. 

Committed soldiers and agents don't haggle for pay options or contracts and many times got payed the same regardless of what happened.  Many times they didn't even have access to their money for long periods of time and existed purely on provided supplies.   

 

I can remember in my own career serving in an isolated location where I had the same $10 in my pocket for months.  Not only didn't I have access to my pay account, but I couldn't have spent anything if I did.  100% of my food, personal needs and equipment was supplied. 

 

The big thing is to determine is the actual type of game you are playing.  You can be pro-Rebellion fighting the Empire, but if you are self supplying by 'loot' and being paid by 'contract' you are most likely not a soldier.  You are a mercenary.  And that is better handled using Edge of the Empire.  

 

Just an opinion of course....

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I mean, already basically said here, but it def depends on the party composition. Special force engaged in guerilla warfare are going to be expected to supply and arm themselves, thats part of what makes them so effective. So in that case, theyd have a lot of access to imperial gear they loot, they'd want to, if only to make the empire replace the arms and cost them the credits. What they don't take, they'd want to break. However, the standard imperial gear isn't going to fill every need. They will need credits for some things. Rebel alliance air drops will be god sends.

 

Not really, you are describing a special forces trained insurgency.   Actual special forces are well supplied and supported for specific missions.  They may use enemy munitions as part of a preplanned mission, but they are not just dropped in the 'outback' and forgotten to fend for themselves. 

 

A special forces team on a mission will specifically NOT resupply locally.  If you resupply locally you cannot avoid leaving traces you are there.  They will carefully keep to their own resources and make sure to not leave traces of their passing.    They will already be armed and equipped for the mission, and there will be a extraction plan.  Spec Ops personnel are far too valuable to expend as insurgents.

 

The ones living off the land and looting arms will not be Special Forces, they will be the home-grown insurgency.

Edited by SSand
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I mean, already basically said here, but it def depends on the party composition. Special force engaged in guerilla warfare are going to be expected to supply and arm themselves, thats part of what makes them so effective. So in that case, theyd have a lot of access to imperial gear they loot, they'd want to, if only to make the empire replace the arms and cost them the credits. What they don't take, they'd want to break. However, the standard imperial gear isn't going to fill every need. They will need credits for some things. Rebel alliance air drops will be god sends.

 

Not really, you are describing a special forces trained insurgency.   Actual special forces are well supplied and supported for specific missions.  They may use enemy munitions as part of a preplanned mission, but they are not just dropped in the 'outback' and forgotten to fend for themselves. 

 

A special forces team on a mission will specifically NOT resupply locally.  If you resupply locally you cannot avoid leaving traces you are there.  They will carefully keep to their own resources and make sure to not leave traces of their passing.    They will already be armed and equipped for the mission, and there will be a extraction plan.  Spec Ops personnel are far too valuable to expend as insurgents.

 

The ones living off the land and looting arms will not be Special Forces, they will be the home-grown insurgency.

 

If you are out in the boondocks on a Vietnam-esque LRRP perhaps.  If you are operating inside a major metropolitan area, using anything but local fare will give you away.  It's funny people think in terms of being in the woods or blowing things up. Most of the covert stuff would in reality be co opting governments and corporations, implanting computer viruses, and simply surveilling officials to make a determination of loyalty. That would mostly be done by diplomats, scholars, and hackers and typically with suitcases full of money.

Edited by 2P51

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Honestly I'm all but certain that they would loot their kills for salvageable equipment when they had the chance and I wouldn't be surprised if they were looting them for money as well. They just wouldn't be telling command how they got the money. Like in the early days of the Alliance, during the Han Solo Trilogy. A joint strike force from several Alliance member groups raidEd a Hutt slave and spice refining operation belonging to a Hutt organizationion.which was friendly to the Empire. One of the commanders suggested to her superior that they sell the refined spice on the black market to get funding, and not tell the Alliance high command where the money really came from. I doubt that was a unique occurrence.

 

Being paid by contract though makes much more sense if your party is allied with the Alliance rather han members of it, like a smuggler, mercenary, or privateer though.

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I agree with looting. The only thing stopping you is if your Duty and/or Specilization specifically says that you gather supplies for the Rebellion, and even then a pistol here and a grenade there won't be missed. Likely enough if you were ground forces the Rebellion would be urging you to go and loot enemy guns so that they wouldn't have to pay for it.

Especially when you consider that this isn't a full blown army, but a rebellion, there isn't much cash flowing. In fact, Star Wars is one of those stories where victory is seemingly by pure luck rather than much else (although it tends to fit better when you say fate and destiny instead, which is already done with Destiny Points). Considering this, you'd probably rather steal gear from the enemy than leave it up to luck.

As for credits, I'd assume that PCs would be allotted credits when they went into areas where credits could get them places, but otherwise you're not on a payroll here, and I doubt Stormtroopers carry cash on them.

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I sure don't run my EotE game where there's much looting. The lack of looting in AoR is not a problem I foresee.

 

The economy rules are yet to be revealed, I think (I don't have the beta, but I doubt it'd be in there) so there could be a lot of ways to get money to your players.

 

First, a salary or operating budget. Allow for bonuses around particularly important or difficult endeavors. Allow players to secure their own sources of funding (An excellent way to use your EotE books while running an AoR campaign) by navigating the underworld or other illegitimate means. Or through legitimate suppliers, though these may take some convincing to come over to support the Rebels.

 

The building and maintenance of infrastructure is one of the most important things of operating a Rebellion (or a military of any kind). I don't see this as a problem for the game, I see this as an in universe issue rife with story opportunities for your players.

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I mean, already basically said here, but it def depends on the party composition. Special force engaged in guerilla warfare are going to be expected to supply and arm themselves, thats part of what makes them so effective. So in that case, theyd have a lot of access to imperial gear they loot, they'd want to, if only to make the empire replace the arms and cost them the credits. What they don't take, they'd want to break. However, the standard imperial gear isn't going to fill every need. They will need credits for some things. Rebel alliance air drops will be god sends.

 

Not really, you are describing a special forces trained insurgency.   Actual special forces are well supplied and supported for specific missions.  They may use enemy munitions as part of a preplanned mission, but they are not just dropped in the 'outback' and forgotten to fend for themselves. 

 

A special forces team on a mission will specifically NOT resupply locally.  If you resupply locally you cannot avoid leaving traces you are there.  They will carefully keep to their own resources and make sure to not leave traces of their passing.    They will already be armed and equipped for the mission, and there will be a extraction plan.  Spec Ops personnel are far too valuable to expend as insurgents.

 

The ones living off the land and looting arms will not be Special Forces, they will be the home-grown insurgency.

 

If you are out in the boondocks on a Vietnam-esque LRRP perhaps.  If you are operating inside a major metropolitan area, using anything but local fare will give you away.  It's funny people think in terms of being in the woods or blowing things up. Most of the covert stuff would in reality be co opting governments and corporations, implanting computer viruses, and simply surveilling officials to make a determination of loyalty. That would mostly be done by diplomats, scholars, and hackers and typically with suitcases full of money.

 

 

I was replying to the scenario posted.  Your scenario has even less of the possibility as far as a 'jus kill'in and stealing their stuff' game goes.  Operating a clandestine op by special forces is even less apt to use  loot or rely on contracted mercs.  As far as "using anything but local fare will give you away.".  That is true of a pure long range espionage game of sleeper cells and such.  But it is not what Age of Rebellion is.  Age of Rebellion is about the organized side of things.  If the Spec Ops team gets inserted and stay longer than 1-3 weeks without accomplishing the mission, they failed.  Spec Ops is NOT a long term intelligence sleeper cell.  It is a highly trained team that goes in and executes a mission. 

 

A money and loot game is not reflecting a 'organized rebellion/revolution by a single or group of governments'.  Or the Rebellion of the Alliance.  Age of Rebellion (IIRC) is about the active military and espionage actions conducted by the formal and established governments and military's of the members of the Alliance. 

  • Combat Soldiers assaulting an Imperial installation.
  • Combat Pilots attacking Imperial Shipping.
  • Combat Pilots attacking key Imperial installations or support facilities.
  • Elite Commando's striking key Imperial installations to pave the way for the Combat Soldiers to assault other Imperial Installations.
  • Elite Commando's or Espionage Operatives sabotaging key Imperial facilities.
  • Espionage Operatives passing intelligence.
  • Espionage Operatives locating intelligence.
  • Espionage Operatives passing strike intelligence.

and so on.  That is AoR.

 

Now the clandestine spy'ish stuff where using payed hirelings that would need to 'live off the land' is a fun game.  Being hired by Alliance operative to go in and blow something up.  Sure, they would need to blend in since they would not have a support structure.   But it would be more of a EotE game than a AoR one. 

 

Spec Ops on the other hand would be a "Insert @ time/day" then "proceed to X by time/day" then "destroy X" and move to be extracted by "time/day" at location "x".

 

You could run a game based on "Bob" the spy.  But a one-on-one game with "Bob" hanging out working a local job for a few years until he gets promoted enough to start having access to 'critical information' would be a little boring.

 

And a game consisting of a spy team going in to sabotage X or penetrate the Imperial base to steal critical information takes us right back to an elite highly trained team that is going to remain completely off grid and self contained for their 1-3 week mission window.   They won't give themselves away because they will stay buried and not go out unless absolutely needed for the mission. 

 

You are wrong is say what we were discussing was wrong.  Our conversation was about military Spec Ops.  The big thing to remember is that a Spec Ops team is an extremely expensive and highly trained asset.  It takes a very very long time to train one. They are not expendable and if the chain is not pretty certain of a successful extraction they will not be sent in. 

 

A lot of what you said about "Most of the covert stuff would in reality be......" is true about a long term espionage effort including long term sleeper cells.  And one day they may write the book "Cloak and Dagger: Spies of the Rebellion", but that isn't here yet.  Instead we have one book about freelance adventurer/merc's on the edge and another book about the formal war. 

 

Most of the posts on this thread are describing an irregular insurgency not directly supported by a government that has to finance and equip itself off the enemy.   Great setting and fun to play, but more EotE: Dangerous Covenants than AoR.

 

All that said.  It's a game so if your players don't mind, are able to suspend belief, can buy into the story and are having fun.  Go for it.   

 

The bottom line is if you are having fun, you are doing it right, 

 

So just ignore the ancient cranky old fart in the corner  :P  I just get picky because many of my gaming friends are retired mil with 20-30 years of service which makes it hard to get somethings past them when it is a military type game.  :ph34r:

Edited by SSand
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I should clarify. I'm not interested in nickel and diming a party over charge packs and boarding. Again, I'm not really interested in the credit race. What I'm concerned with is if a player wants buy a weapon mod, cybernetic implant, fusion cutter, or even the coveted lightsaber. I can easily see not one of these items being a part of your Rebel kit and not part of the normal supply chain. Where do the credits to buy those items come from, since you aren't work for hire nor is it acceptable to be robbing the dead (even if they had anything)? There's a gear chapter, but if AoR is run strictly as "what the Rebellion gives you for your mission," you're never going to use anything in the gear chapter outside of a blaster.

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Why couldn't you requisition the item as part of the supply chain?  A Lightsaber isn't something that should be bought at all imo.  Parts to make guns better certainly is well within what I would expect a unit to requisition. Tools as well.  None of that seems odd at all to request.

Edited by 2P51

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If the Alliance pays its soldiers, then such payments could be tracked and would be a weakness that the Empire could exploit. I see the Alliance as far more of a terrorist network than a formal military organization.

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The old WEG sourcebook talks some about Alliance logistics and economy. The Alliance did print its own money, though the value varied greatly. In Imp friendly areas you would probably get shot or arrested for trying to spend it, Alliance supporters would take it at face value, and the standard Black Market exchange rate was 20 Alliance Credits to 1 Imperial Credit. The Alliance also sold War bonds, often with very high interest, though Investment advisers who didn't report people to the Empire for asking advice on buying them felt they were a high risk investment for obvious reasons

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I mean, already basically said here, but it def depends on the party composition. Special force engaged in guerilla warfare are going to be expected to supply and arm themselves, thats part of what makes them so effective. So in that case, theyd have a lot of access to imperial gear they loot, they'd want to, if only to make the empire replace the arms and cost them the credits. What they don't take, they'd want to break. However, the standard imperial gear isn't going to fill every need. They will need credits for some things. Rebel alliance air drops will be god sends.

 

Not really, you are describing a special forces trained insurgency.   Actual special forces are well supplied and supported for specific missions.  They may use enemy munitions as part of a preplanned mission, but they are not just dropped in the 'outback' and forgotten to fend for themselves. 

 

A special forces team on a mission will specifically NOT resupply locally.  If you resupply locally you cannot avoid leaving traces you are there.  They will carefully keep to their own resources and make sure to not leave traces of their passing.    They will already be armed and equipped for the mission, and there will be a extraction plan.  Spec Ops personnel are far too valuable to expend as insurgents.

 

The ones living off the land and looting arms will not be Special Forces, they will be the home-grown insurgency.

 

Except this is what the Alliance is to the t, they are no in any way a highly trained military they are more like Russian Partisans or French Resistance in World War II.Sure they have some dedicated units and equipment but most of the Rebellion's operatives are going to be in a hut on some backwater with a collection of weaponry and a small comlink feed, not a US Army style unit for reference read Allegiance by Timothy Zahn.

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The lovely thing about the Alliance is precisely that so little was portrayed in the movies in regards to inner workings and scope. There is the EU of course, and that is an alacarte menu at any time imo.  Some like the idea of the typical sabotage and guerrilla war approach.  Some like myself think the bulk of the war was waged by diplomats, hackers and spies.  Still others envision this grand hierarchical opposing military force engaging in set piece actions. Any and all are perfectly fine because little was actually touched on in the movies. 

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The old WEG sourcebook talks some about Alliance logistics and economy. The Alliance did print its own money, though the value varied greatly. In Imp friendly areas you would probably get shot or arrested for trying to spend it, Alliance supporters would take it at face value, and the standard Black Market exchange rate was 20 Alliance Credits to 1 Imperial Credit. The Alliance also sold War bonds, often with very high interest, though Investment advisers who didn't report people to the Empire for asking advice on buying them felt they were a high risk investment for obvious reasons

*blinks*

This has switched my annoyed indifference of WEG to loathing.

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Looting is good in general. A set budget and basic gear for each mission from the Alliance would also be good, this way the group can just pocket the credits, exchange it with the Alliance for any extra gear they think they'd need, or go out and spend the credits if the Alliance doesn't have that extra gear to give up. After missions, players can trade in looted gear/valuable information/resources they get for either credits or extra Duty increases.

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The old WEG sourcebook talks some about Alliance logistics and economy. The Alliance did print its own money, though the value varied greatly. In Imp friendly areas you would probably get shot or arrested for trying to spend it, Alliance supporters would take it at face value, and the standard Black Market exchange rate was 20 Alliance Credits to 1 Imperial Credit. The Alliance also sold War bonds, often with very high interest, though Investment advisers who didn't report people to the Empire for asking advice on buying them felt they were a high risk investment for obvious reasons

*blinks*

This has switched my annoyed indifference of WEG to loathing.

 

WEG was cribbing from several very successful rebellions - the 13 UK colonies that rebelled in 1770-1800, and weren't formally recognized until almost two decades after that - and several African revolutions. Plus the Russian Civil War and the US Civil War, tho' those were lost by the insurgents.

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The old WEG sourcebook talks some about Alliance logistics and economy. The Alliance did print its own money, though the value varied greatly. In Imp friendly areas you would probably get shot or arrested for trying to spend it, Alliance supporters would take it at face value, and the standard Black Market exchange rate was 20 Alliance Credits to 1 Imperial Credit. The Alliance also sold War bonds, often with very high interest, though Investment advisers who didn't report people to the Empire for asking advice on buying them felt they were a high risk investment for obvious reasons

*blinks*

This has switched my annoyed indifference of WEG to loathing.

 

WEG was cribbing from several very successful rebellions - the 13 UK colonies that rebelled in 1770-1800, and weren't formally recognized until almost two decades after that - and several African revolutions. Plus the Russian Civil War and the US Civil War, tho' those were lost by the insurgents.

 

I'm not sure what a better explanation for the economic backing of the Rebellion might look like. Any suggestions?

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Money comes from several sources:

Loans from banks or private parties (everything you have to pay back with interest).

Funds from private parties and companies (everything you don't have to pay back).

Trade and other businesses directly owned by the Rebellion. (Duh!)

Theft, cons and other criminal activities. (Duh again!)

The Rebellion gained several assets from defecting Imperials that brought their crews, ships and private posessions with them.

Several companies 'lost' shipments that ended in Rebellion hands.

And then there were people like Bail Organa who had several of them on his payroll.

Even if we do not like to pay much attention to this less glamarous part of the Rebellion, no army can do without funds. France paid for about 90% of all the gunpowder the 13 colonies used to oust the Brits, along quite a lot of hard cash to pay the troops, food and gear needed.

Even in revolutions a certain degree of money is required to get the needed supplies/goods/services from those parties that do not partake in the revolution.

And there are hundreds of planets in the SW universe that do not partake in the civil war but wait and sell to both sides.

Edit: Rewatch the episodes about Clovis and the Banks in TCW Season 6. They may not be among the most thrilling episodes but do a good job about explaining some fundamental facts about financing wars.

Edited by segara82
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The Rebellion is more like the NVA rather than the Viet Cong. 

 

The Rebellion has air and fleet support and well and regular military units. It is capable of waging set piece battles (Ala Hoth) and winning. Maybe. Kind of sorta. Not really.

 

More likely, they can engage with Imperial military units and inflict heavy losses before retreating, or achieve some kind of non-combat objective like extraction or intelligence gathering. Most of it's victories will come from surprise attacks on lightly defended targets.

 

But they have training, logistics, supplies and a chain of command.

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