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Question on two pieces of Gear from two different books

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Okay, so I recently got both the Suns of Fortune book as well as the Dangerous Covenants book and I have a question about one piece of gear from each book.Alright down to brass tacks:

 

The Vamblades from Dangerous Covenants:When a character has 2 Vamblades I get that they gain Sunder 1 and Accurate 1 as Weapon qualities my question boils down to this: When they are used as a pair must they be given the same upgrade quality or may I mix and match in other words can I put serrated edge on one and Superior on the other blade?

 

The Grav Belt from Suns of Fortune:The cost of this gear piece is listed and the rarity is listed as well my question is that is this piece of gear the poor mans version of the Grav Suit or does it do something else?

 

 

Thank You for your help with this.

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Reading over the Vamblade (listed as singular) description in Dangerous Covenants and having a player who uses them dual wielding I think I’ve made a mistake in our execution of the weapons thus far in game and the previous comment.

 

First, it looks like 500 credits buys a single Vamblade based on the entry on the weapon list as singular so to wield a pair would cost 2 and provide 2 separate 1 HP weapons.

Second, we had been using “simple flick of the wrist” to mean Incidental to draw the weapons but the more I read it and with Quick Draw even providing only a single weapon drawn for free I think that’s a piece of narrative to explain that unless a player is otherwise immobilized completely they should be able to activate the blades.

Third, they are listed as having Sunder and Accurate 1 qualities when wielded as a pair and we’d been applying Accurate to each Vamblade when dual wielding but if that were the case it would be more likely that the description would read “When used as a pair, each wrist blade gains the Sunder and Accurate 1 weapon qualities.” Or rather that the pair gains Accurate 2 quality.

 

Summary:

Dual wielding Vamblades costs 1,000 credits, has 2 separate 1 HP items which can be modded and the combined weapon qualities would be Defensive 2, Accurate 1, & Sunder. Thoughts?

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Reading over the Vamblade (listed as singular) description in Dangerous Covenants and having a player who uses them dual wielding I think I’ve made a mistake in our execution of the weapons thus far in game and the previous comment.

 

First, it looks like 500 credits buys a single Vamblade based on the entry on the weapon list as singular so to wield a pair would cost 2 and provide 2 separate 1 HP weapons.

Second, we had been using “simple flick of the wrist” to mean Incidental to draw the weapons but the more I read it and with Quick Draw even providing only a single weapon drawn for free I think that’s a piece of narrative to explain that unless a player is otherwise immobilized completely they should be able to activate the blades.

Third, they are listed as having Sunder and Accurate 1 qualities when wielded as a pair and we’d been applying Accurate to each Vamblade when dual wielding but if that were the case it would be more likely that the description would read “When used as a pair, each wrist blade gains the Sunder and Accurate 1 weapon qualities.” Or rather that the pair gains Accurate 2 quality.

 

Summary:

Dual wielding Vamblades costs 1,000 credits, has 2 separate 1 HP items which can be modded and the combined weapon qualities would be Defensive 2, Accurate 1, & Sunder. Thoughts?

No, sounds like you had it right to me.  You buy a pair of them together and can choose to DW or not, and they only have 1 HP for the pair.

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No, sounds like you had it right to me.  You buy a pair of them together and can choose to DW or not, and they only have 1 HP for the pair.

 

 

I have a problem with that interpretation carrying weight for the reasons listed above but I'll number them here for clarification

  1. The weapon entry (and description) both says Vamblade and denotes singular in it's tone. This could perhaps be an oversight in one of the locations however Blast Knuckles & Vibroknucklers are listed in the same section and they are pluralized.
  2. The Special column notes the effect as Defensive 1. The description says “When used as a pair, writst blades gain the Sunder and Accurate 1 weapon qualities. (This applies even if they are not used with two weapon combat rules to gain and additional hit.)” Thus by deductive logic, if Vambalde were sold as a pair for the listed 500 credits they would have Accurate 1 and Sunder also listed in the Special column rather than as a note they gain that bonus in the weapon description.
  3. Balance. Some may rule that the various Knuckle items come in a pair for the listed cost but by balance that would be like saying I'm going to dual wield so here's 2 Vibroswords because I intend to dual wield them they should come as a pair. Dual wielding adds weapon damage & activated qualities to each strike thus from a balance perspective it does not make sense that for the cost of 2 advantage you get to increase your damage by weapon ammounts. If this was intended every ranged weapon would have the Auto Fire quality (or Double Fire would be an ability rather than full auto as the ability emulates) for the same effect as multiple hits.

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Your example of brass knuckles and knucklers is poor. Both use a plural form as a singular much as 'pants' often indicates a single article of clothing.

 

I've had it argued to me that they are Knuckles thus they come in pairs. I don't agree and have ruled that for bonus damage you buy the second item, I will however be totally stealing the pants example in the future debates.

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Your example of brass knuckles and knucklers is poor. Both use a plural form as a singular much as 'pants' often indicates a single article of clothing.

 

I've had it argued to me that they are Knuckles thus they come in pairs. I don't agree and have ruled that for bonus damage you buy the second item, I will however be totally stealing the pants example in the future debates.

 

 

I've always interpreted Brawl checks to be full-body attacks, and so I've treated Shock Gloves and all variants of Knucklers as a matched pair with no benefit, cost, or other distinction between wielding one and two.  The Vamblade (which is both listed in the singular and uses Melee, if I remember correctly) I would treat as a single item in the same way as any other Melee weapon, and when you perform an attack with two of them together that attack gains Accurate 1 and Sunder.

 

As for separate weapon qualities, simply declare which one is your main attack and which is the follow-up, in the same way as when dual-wielding two other weapons of different types.

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It sounds like the grav belt was definitively clarified.

 

So here's my two cents on the vamblade topic...

 

First, I would have classified them as melee instead of brawl because they act more like a knife than a glove or knuckler (but that's neither here nor there for this discussion, just some food for thought).

Second, it does specifiy in the description that they are intended to be used as a pair.  HOWEVER.  In the very same sentance, it also says "...and open up a whole range of combat options when used thus by a properly trained fighter."  I take this to mean that while it's designed to be used as a pair, it doesn't usually happen - but when it DOES happen, you gain these benefits.

Third, as pointed out above - the chart doesn't list the added benefits - those are only cited in the description when specifically stating IF they are used as a pair.  Additionally, the description doesn't make any mention of LOOSING the Defensive 1 quality if you only use one of them.

Fourth, while I think they're fairly seperate from knucklers, I would still think of it like this; they're not usually sold in pairs.  While I have seen a few Brass Knuckles sold in pairs, you usually only buy one at a time.  I would think the SW universe would be similar.  Most thugs wouldn't use two unless you plan on the fight going on a while - you just use one to wail on your target (specific word chosen: not an opponent at this time) until they recieve the message you're trying to give them.  Similarly, Vamblades would probably have devolved to be sold as singles.  If you need to specify that using two at a time is for a trained fighter, you're understanding that the average user isn't one of them.

Fifth, to account for the Sunder and Accurate 1 while in pairs (even if you're not using two weapon combat) but not with only one, imagine you have both out and in your hands/on your wrists - you're twice as likely to land a hit.  You may not land a hit with BOTH (two weapon combat, damaging twice), but you're still more likely to hit once.

 

Now, with all that in mind, I'm also going to say the stats on the chart are for a single blade.  You should spend another 500c to get a second blade to use as a pair.  When you do, both blades will have their own HP to use.  I would also say the Defensive quality would stack (if you're able to block well with one, you can block better with two).  You would then be able to use the Accurate 1 and Sunder qualities AND have the opption to make a two weapon attack (though, the Accurate 1 and Sunder don't stack since you only gain them once you have two blades)

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