Munitions Failsafe + Cluster Missiles

[a4rino 107]

Does anyone know how these cards will interact?

 

The text for Munitions Failsafe reads: When attacking with a secondary weapon that instructs you to discard it to perform the attack, do not discard it unless the attack hits.

 

The text for Cluster Missiles reads: Spend your target lock and discard this card to perform this attack twice.

[VanorDM 11,599]

Short of a FAQ saying otherwise...

I'd say that if either set of dice hits, then the card is discarded.

[Deltmi 786]

If you don't hit on either roll then you get to keep the missiles. If you hit the first time, and miss the second time you discard. If you miss the first time, and hit the second time you discard. 

[zathras23 936]

If you miss with both Cluster Missile attacks you don't discard it when you have Munitions Failsafe.

[Cptnhalfbeard 680]

=IF(OR(cluster1=hit,cluster2=hit),discard missile,keep missile)

[D4rkt3mpl4r 208]

=IF(OR(cluster1=hit,cluster2=hit),discard missile,keep missile)

The wording on these cards is giving my brain a #NAME? error.

[dvorm 1,058]

=IF(OR(cluster1=hit,cluster2=hit),discard missile,keep missile)

I hope FFG will write that (or equivalent) in the next FAQ.

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

I'd love to do this on Airen Cracken, as it means you'd dole out 2 actions every turn, instead of your attack...

[dvorm 1,058]

I'd love to do this on Airen Cracken, as it means you'd dole out 2 actions every turn, instead of your attack...

Let me get that straight: Are you suggesting that clusters on Cracken trigger his ability twice?

[Crabbok 9,798]

I'd love to do this on Airen Cracken, as it means you'd dole out 2 actions every turn, instead of your attack...

Good catch!

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

I'd love to do this on Airen Cracken, as it means you'd dole out 2 actions every turn, instead of your attack...

Let me get that straight: Are you suggesting that clusters on Cracken trigger his ability twice?

After each attack, an ally at Range 1 gets a free action

Cluster missiles are 2 attacks.... Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying.

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

I'd love to do this on Airen Cracken, as it means you'd dole out 2 actions every turn, instead of your attack...

Let me get that straight: Are you suggesting that clusters on Cracken trigger his ability twice?

Why wouldn't they? Cracken's ability triggers when you attack, and Clusters (despite all their weirdness) definitely let you attack twice.

[VanorDM 11,599]

Cluster missiles are 2 attacks.... Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying.

I was thinking this would mean that the MFS would work differently. But I think I'm wrong.

Because if either attacks hit, failsafe still requires you to discard the missile. For much the same reason as rolling a single attack with no dice counts for fulfilling both Blinded Pilot crits if you had 2 of them.

[dvorm 1,058]

 

 

I'd love to do this on Airen Cracken, as it means you'd dole out 2 actions every turn, instead of your attack...

Let me get that straight: Are you suggesting that clusters on Cracken trigger his ability twice?

After each attack, an ally at Range 1 gets a free action

Cluster missiles are 2 attacks.... Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying.

I concur. I hate it. But I do.

 

Does anyone think that is what FFG intended? I predict they will put a negative answer into the FAQ. And they will still refuse an errata. Clusterf**k missiles indeed.

[VanorDM 11,599]

Does anyone think that is what FFG intended?

I don't think so, but it's not like it's really that massively broken. It only let him do it one time, assuming he hit with the cluster missile, which in most cases he should land at least one hit.

It's not like you can keep doing it over and over again.

I wouldn't be surprised to see FFG make a FAQ ruling saying no, he doesn't get 2 actions with cluster missiles though.

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

Does anyone think that is what FFG intended? I predict they will put a negative answer into the FAQ. And they will still refuse an errata. Clusterf**k missiles indeed.

Yes, I think this is what they intended. It's a really, really niche buff to a weapon that doesn't honestly have a lot of applications, and even with the buff they're still pretty expensive for a relatively weak, one-time effect.

[CrookedWookie 1,258]

Intended?  Hard to say?
Might FAQ it to be officially legal, or off-limits?  Either one is completely possible.
Barring a ruling either way, though, it looks legit.

I would say two things:

1.  If either CM attack hits, MFS has no effect.  Essentially CM just causes you to check twice to see if the Hit condition is met or not, and if it's ever met, the missile goes away.

2.  CM is two attacks, warts and all, and so should be able (at least the once) to trigger Cracken's abilty twice in a turn.

[Deltmi 786]

 

I'd love to do this on Airen Cracken, as it means you'd dole out 2 actions every turn, instead of your attack...

Let me get that straight: Are you suggesting that clusters on Cracken trigger his ability twice?

 

It's not much different than FCS with Gunner. You aquire a TL after first attack, and if you don't hit, you roll again with TL. And then you gain a TL again after the Gunner roll (assuming you used TL on your Gunner attack).

Edited March 24, 2014 by Deltmi

[VanorDM 11,599]

It's not much different than FCS with Gunner.

Oooh, if we get an upgrade that lets us put a crew on Z-95's we could have Airen w/Gunner and Cluster missile... At which point the game of X-Wing would get sucked into a timing singularity and case to exist.

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

It's not much different than FCS with Gunner.

Oooh, if we get an upgrade that lets us put a crew on Z-95's we could have Airen w/Gunner and Cluster missile... At which point the game of X-Wing would get sucked into a timing singularity and case to exist.

As delicious as that would be, I am fairly certain that you can't fit two corpses in a flying coffin.

[Danthrax 1,693]

 

It's not much different than FCS with Gunner.

Oooh, if we get an upgrade that lets us put a crew on Z-95's we could have Airen w/Gunner and Cluster missile... At which point the game of X-Wing would get sucked into a timing singularity and case to exist.

 

 

There's actually an FAQ entry on using Cluster Missile with Gunner, haha. It says that if you miss with your first Cluster Missile attack, Gunner lets you make a primary weapon attack, which stops the second Cluster Missile attack from happening at all.

[Forgottenlore 9,824]

Because gunner specifically says that you can't make any further attacks that turn.

It's important to mention that so that people don't get confused and think the same thing applies to FCS, Vader, Craken and the like.

[Eltnot 690]

Unless a FaQ/Errata specifies otherwise, I would stick to that unless both of your attacks miss with the Cluster missiles, that Munitions Fail Safe won't come into play.

[Hexis 1,776]

Does anyone know how these cards will interact?

 

The text for Munitions Failsafe reads: When attacking with a secondary weapon that instructs you to discard it to perform the attack, do not discard it unless the attack hits.

 

The text for Cluster Missiles reads: Spend your target lock and discard this card to perform this attack twice.

 

 

Would it be more clear if you read it this way?

 

When attacking with a secondary weapon that instructs you to discard it to perform the attack(s), do not discard it unless (at least one of) the attack(s) hits.

 

The text for Cluster Missiles reads: Spend your target lock and discard this card to perform this attack twice.

 

It seams pretty simple to me.  They both miss, you get to use it again.  You hit with either attack, you discard it, just like any other secondary munition.  If you get any single hit with any secondary munition and the failsafe doesn't kick in.  Works just the same with Cluster Missiles.  Don't overthink it.

[iPeregrine 685]

Would it be more clear if you read it this way?

 

It would be clearer, but it wouldn't be the same card. The failsafe very clearly says THE attack, singular. You must identify a single attack to be the discard/don't discard trigger, any second attacks/gunner/etc are irrelevant.

 

The only confusion here is which of the two cluster missile attacks counts for determining whether or not the card is discarded.

Edited March 25, 2014 by iPeregrine