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BigBadUnshaved

Terrifying power creep of shop item cards.

88 posts in this topic

 

 

 

 

Likewise, easily over 90% of gamers here and abroad the internet use the term "broken" to mean "overpowered" (and perhaps occasionally "underpowered," but usually the former.) In fact, they often use the term to refer to a perceived imbalance when there may in fact not even be an actual imbalance in practice.

I'm sure they would use "broken" in a case where the game became literally unplayable, but that is not a prerequisite in common parlance. The way the majority of people use the word "broken" in the context of gaming is highly subjective, to the point where I don't really think any one definition can be universally applied. You know what they mean, let's just leave it at that.

It's better to make up a term for the unusual situation, rather than repurposing a common term in a way which will make what you're saying harder to understand.

I disagree. Just because most of these players speak in hyperbole doesn't mean that it should be encouraged. If you follow actual game design professionals (particularly for big-league games), they'll say the same thing Whitewing says.
Don't forget this is a forum. And not nearly as bad as some I've seen(Community wise). Most people here including me aren't typing or talking to the best of are abilities or even spell check. This is a game forum and nothing here is even all that important. If this was a resume' then people would CARE more.

If you don't even care enough about the things you love or do as a hobby, then why should anyone take anything you ever do seriously?

I try to make my posts legible and clear, and while I will readily state that my opinions are opinions and aren't always right, I do my best to argue my position in a way that others can know what I'm trying to actually say. Hyperbole runs counter to that notion, and is primarily a tool of rhetoric, which is counter productive.

Obviously you care enough to come on here and spend a portion of your day reading others posts and commenting yourself. If you care enough to do that, why not care enough to make the discussion the best it can be with a small amount of additional effort?

Policing people how they talk, or want to talk is ridiculous. You obviously understand what people are saying but your nit picking what you think "game breaking" means? That's all I REALLY see. It's not always about caring it's about time and time limits the amount of care involved or subject matter. Most people do more in there lives then a game (not saying you don't). If it takes less time to punctuate,spell check ect ect. And people are limited on time then that's what people are going to do. You can call it what you like but its what people do no matter the country. Speaking of country it could also be because of poor English skills. I see people on here trying to say what they got to say but I find it hard to understand because they are still learning the language. If you want to teach grammar a game forum isn't the place. Their not here to learn grammar they have something else going on in there life that is teaching them. In fact you could be unintentionally insulting them. Not everybody is from the same culture as you and you should respect that.

 

 

Firstly, if you're short on time because you have better things to do, then go do them. Secondly, if you don't even play this game and don't care about it, why are you here? Thirdly, cultural relativism is bull. Fourthly, I never once attempted to teach anyone grammar. I merely suggested that people who genuinely care about the things they do will put in some time and effort into doing it well. If you don't care about your posting, why should anyone else? I never stated any grammar rules or told someone to go learn it, or anything of the sort. You brought this up when you came out of nowhere bashing the very idea of posting well, with your inane notion that because this is a game forum and others are worse, we should just not even attempt to improve. Nobody is nitpicking grammatical mistakes or calling people out for poor English: my point is precisely that you took the time to say this:

 

"Don't forget this is a forum. And not nearly as bad as some I've seen(Community wise). Most people here including me aren't typing or talking to the best of are abilities or even spell check. This is a game forum and nothing here is even all that important. If this was a resume' then people would CARE more."

 

I cannot disagree with this very notion more vehemently, and I don't care what culture you are from: that's an excuse. You quite literally said that you are not trying to post well. That's toxic to any discussion, regardless of what the topic is. If you don't care, go do something else with your time, you don't have to sit here telling others they are trying too hard with things they enjoy.

griton likes this

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Likewise, easily over 90% of gamers here and abroad the internet use the term "broken" to mean "overpowered" (and perhaps occasionally "underpowered," but usually the former.) In fact, they often use the term to refer to a perceived imbalance when there may in fact not even be an actual imbalance in practice.

I'm sure they would use "broken" in a case where the game became literally unplayable, but that is not a prerequisite in common parlance. The way the majority of people use the word "broken" in the context of gaming is highly subjective, to the point where I don't really think any one definition can be universally applied. You know what they mean, let's just leave it at that.

It's better to make up a term for the unusual situation, rather than repurposing a common term in a way which will make what you're saying harder to understand.

I disagree. Just because most of these players speak in hyperbole doesn't mean that it should be encouraged. If you follow actual game design professionals (particularly for big-league games), they'll say the same thing Whitewing says.
Don't forget this is a forum. And not nearly as bad as some I've seen(Community wise). Most people here including me aren't typing or talking to the best of are abilities or even spell check. This is a game forum and nothing here is even all that important. If this was a resume' then people would CARE more.

If you don't even care enough about the things you love or do as a hobby, then why should anyone take anything you ever do seriously?

I try to make my posts legible and clear, and while I will readily state that my opinions are opinions and aren't always right, I do my best to argue my position in a way that others can know what I'm trying to actually say. Hyperbole runs counter to that notion, and is primarily a tool of rhetoric, which is counter productive.

Obviously you care enough to come on here and spend a portion of your day reading others posts and commenting yourself. If you care enough to do that, why not care enough to make the discussion the best it can be with a small amount of additional effort?

Policing people how they talk, or want to talk is ridiculous. You obviously understand what people are saying but your nit picking what you think "game breaking" means? That's all I REALLY see. It's not always about caring it's about time and time limits the amount of care involved or subject matter. Most people do more in there lives then a game (not saying you don't). If it takes less time to punctuate,spell check ect ect. And people are limited on time then that's what people are going to do. You can call it what you like but its what people do no matter the country. Speaking of country it could also be because of poor English skills. I see people on here trying to say what they got to say but I find it hard to understand because they are still learning the language. If you want to teach grammar a game forum isn't the place. Their not here to learn grammar they have something else going on in there life that is teaching them. In fact you could be unintentionally insulting them. Not everybody is from the same culture as you and you should respect that.

 

Firstly, if you're short on time because you have better things to do, then go do them. Secondly, if you don't even play this game and don't care about it, why are you here? Thirdly, cultural relativism is bull. Fourthly, I never once attempted to teach anyone grammar. I merely suggested that people who genuinely care about the things they do will put in some time and effort into doing it well. If you don't care about your posting, why should anyone else? I never stated any grammar rules or told someone to go learn it, or anything of the sort. You brought this up when you came out of nowhere bashing the very idea of posting well, with your inane notion that because this is a game forum and others are worse, we should just not even attempt to improve. Nobody is nitpicking grammatical mistakes or calling people out for poor English: my point is precisely that you took the time to say this:

 

"Don't forget this is a forum. And not nearly as bad as some I've seen(Community wise). Most people here including me aren't typing or talking to the best of are abilities or even spell check. This is a game forum and nothing here is even all that important. If this was a resume' then people would CARE more."

 

I cannot disagree with this very notion more vehemently, and I don't care what culture you are from: that's an excuse. You quite literally said that you are not trying to post well. That's toxic to any discussion, regardless of what the topic is. If you don't care, go do something else with your time, you don't have to sit here telling others they are trying too hard with things they enjoy.

Umm no that isn't I can't agree wit that.

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Likewise, easily over 90% of gamers here and abroad the internet use the term "broken" to mean "overpowered" (and perhaps occasionally "underpowered," but usually the former.) In fact, they often use the term to refer to a perceived imbalance when there may in fact not even be an actual imbalance in practice.

I'm sure they would use "broken" in a case where the game became literally unplayable, but that is not a prerequisite in common parlance. The way the majority of people use the word "broken" in the context of gaming is highly subjective, to the point where I don't really think any one definition can be universally applied. You know what they mean, let's just leave it at that.

It's better to make up a term for the unusual situation, rather than repurposing a common term in a way which will make what you're saying harder to understand.

I disagree. Just because most of these players speak in hyperbole doesn't mean that it should be encouraged. If you follow actual game design professionals (particularly for big-league games), they'll say the same thing Whitewing says.
Don't forget this is a forum. And not nearly as bad as some I've seen(Community wise). Most people here including me aren't typing or talking to the best of are abilities or even spell check. This is a game forum and nothing here is even all that important. If this was a resume' then people would CARE more.

If you don't even care enough about the things you love or do as a hobby, then why should anyone take anything you ever do seriously?

I try to make my posts legible and clear, and while I will readily state that my opinions are opinions and aren't always right, I do my best to argue my position in a way that others can know what I'm trying to actually say. Hyperbole runs counter to that notion, and is primarily a tool of rhetoric, which is counter productive.

Obviously you care enough to come on here and spend a portion of your day reading others posts and commenting yourself. If you care enough to do that, why not care enough to make the discussion the best it can be with a small amount of additional effort?

Policing people how they talk, or want to talk is ridiculous. You obviously understand what people are saying but your nit picking what you think "game breaking" means? That's all I REALLY see. It's not always about caring it's about time and time limits the amount of care involved or subject matter. Most people do more in there lives then a game (not saying you don't). If it takes less time to punctuate,spell check ect ect. And people are limited on time then that's what people are going to do. You can call it what you like but its what people do no matter the country. Speaking of country it could also be because of poor English skills. I see people on here trying to say what they got to say but I find it hard to understand because they are still learning the language. If you want to teach grammar a game forum isn't the place. Their not here to learn grammar they have something else going on in there life that is teaching them. In fact you could be unintentionally insulting them. Not everybody is from the same culture as you and you should respect that.

I respect this I'm an exchange student.

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Please stick to the topic of this thread before it gets closed because of an unrelated debate.

 

Whitewing, I do know what an opportunity cost is but I fail to see how it is uniquely Rune Plate's restriction. That can be said about any sort of purchase, be it other items or skills. This sort of 'restriction' applies to every other armor you've praised as 'better' then Rune Plate and you know it.

mm26 likes this

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Please stick to the topic of this thread before it gets closed because of an unrelated debate.

 

Whitewing, I do know what an opportunity cost is but I fail to see how it is uniquely Rune Plate's restriction. That can be said about any sort of purchase, be it other items or skills. This sort of 'restriction' applies to every other armor you've praised as 'better' then Rune Plate and you know it.

 

I'm aware of that. I'm not trying to argue that rune plate isn't good: it is. I'm just saying it's not as overpowered as you think it is. Given that you must have a rune for it to really be beneficial, and that the restrictions on other armors don't negatively impact many other characters, rune plate winds up on the higher end of armors, but is not the best armor. Frankly, I think armors in general might be on the weaker side of things.

 

Further, this discussion was primarily about power creep: I don't see any power creep. As far as I'm concerned, one of the absolute best weapons in act 1 (probably the best) is the crossbow, which is from the original box. I don't see new stuff being printed as being outright better than the original stuff.

Edited by Whitewing
griton likes this

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I know in a two player hero game having Rune Plate and That relic armor from LoW (name escapes me)can be nasty. Heroes will loose lots a quests in a two player hero game but the end game is where it's at and that's a good start for the heroes. As far as power creep I don't think it's anymore power creep then plot decks. We played mostly 4 vs 1, 2 vs 1 mostly we played it to test plot decks.

I've played the crap out if this game and I can tell you winning quests and loosing quests really isn't as big a deal as you would think I've lost quests on purpose once just to see if I can win end game anyway I've seen heroes loose many quests and still win in the end. When i played as a hero we've lost quest purposely to gain as much coin as possible which for heroes is more important for their end game then (some) quest rewards that doesnt mean to forfiet each quest after coin retreival. Rune plate is just the starting point for a good Mage class to us when we played. I don't think it needs to be a act 2 item.

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Further, this discussion was primarily about power creep: I don't see any power creep. As far as I'm concerned, one of the absolute best weapons in act 1 (probably the best) is the crossbow, which is from the original box. I don't see new stuff being printed as being outright better than the original stuff.

 

I'm under the impression it's the 'Move the Target 1 space' effect that makes the Crossbow so good, right? I see each set having good and bad weapons all the same; For every bad-ass Dragontooth Hammer, there's a ho-hum Steel Greatsword, and for every awesome armor like Rune Plate, there's an overpriced, ill-used Inscribed Robes.

Edited by PlainWhiteBread

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Further, this discussion was primarily about power creep: I don't see any power creep. As far as I'm concerned, one of the absolute best weapons in act 1 (probably the best) is the crossbow, which is from the original box. I don't see new stuff being printed as being outright better than the original stuff.

 

I'm under the impression it's the 'Move the Target 1 space' effect that makes the Crossbow so good, right? I see each set having good and bad weapons all the same; For every bad-ass Dragontooth Hammer, there's a ho-hum Steel Greatsword, and for every awesome armor like Rune Plate, there's an overpriced, ill-used Inscribed Robes.

 

 

Right. That's one of the reasons the crossbow is so good. The other is that it's a one handed weapon so you can also use a shield or a stronger melee weapon if you like, it's surge effects are very powerful, and it happens to be an exotic weapon and a bow, making it extremely strong for Logan Lashley or treasure hunters (or both). It's very good even if you aren't one of those too. 

 

Many of the new cards in the expansions suck, and the good ones aren't much better than stuff that's already existed. Thus, this notion of power creep is basically non-existent.

Underworld40k likes this

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Still with Whitewing on the power creep issue, the majority of expansion gear is comparable to the base game stuff, some stuff is better some stuff is worse.

If nothing scaled up people would complain that the base game gear was still better and that the expansions didn't add enough.

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Whitewing?

Edit: "I am your farther" been wanting to do that for awhile...Power Creep yeah bad,bad stuff we need to be careful it could be contagious. I typed that because I had the TIME to.

Edited by Light Bright

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I know in a two player hero game having Rune Plate and That relic armor from LoW (name escapes me)can be nasty. Heroes will loose lots a quests in a two player hero game but the end game is where it's at and that's a good start for the heroes. As far as power creep I don't think it's anymore power creep then plot decks. We played mostly 4 vs 1, 2 vs 1 mostly we played it to test plot decks.

I've played the crap out if this game and I can tell you winning quests and loosing quests really isn't as big a deal as you would think I've lost quests on purpose once just to see if I can win end game anyway I've seen heroes loose many quests and still win in the end. When i played as a hero we've lost quest purposely to gain as much coin as possible which for heroes is more important for their end game then (some) quest rewards that doesnt mean to forfiet each quest after coin retreival. Rune plate is just the starting point for a good Mage class to us when we played. I don't think it needs to be a act 2 item.

I'm guessing you we're in a hurry when you wrote that? What is your "excuse" Silverhelm? Lol. I agree with it though.

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Has anyone made a photoshop template of item cards?

 

If so, shall we print out a revised card that has a brown die instead of a gray die, and replace "black" with "gray"?

 

Then try it out through a campaign and see who wins?

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uhm - im not a big fan of nerving cards.

 

but i have to say - all this cry cry over runeplate...

 

i tend to find the BEARDED AXE MUCH MORE gamechanging.

every campaign i played, every quest i've seen its the same. an early bearded axe wins games. in 4 of 6 cases (in mind you dont miss) its at least 4 damage, since the pierce will deny that 0-1 shield and the +2 crit will appeal.

in the other 2 u have a 50% chance of rolling a surge, giving it a pierce 3, which will trigger the one said above.

 

the only way to counter a beardaxe seems to be shadowdragons (deny surges through shadow), stealthy (miss on 2 range) and defense dies which will grant 4 shields. but most questscripted monsters will fall to it like flies, a bad defenceroll from a lieutenant? oh to bad, u get 7 damage.

 

i saw a bearded axed looted in the intro. the overlord won no quests (he even picked cardinals plight as 2nd quest and lost [yes, he was skilled, knew whathe did and stuff]).

 

high damage output and monstercontroll seem to be much more a pain for the ol, then 1 unkillable hero.

Light Bright and rfisha like this

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Nerfing**

 

 

Bearded axe is a good weapon, but when its crap... its really crap and when its good, its insane. The swing of the damage output is crazy which is the tradeoff. Not much a tradeoff though as it doesn't matter how you spin it its still the best melee weapon in terms of damage in act 1.

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Nerfing**

 

 

Bearded axe is a good weapon, but when its crap... its really crap and when its good, its insane. The swing of the damage output is crazy which is the tradeoff. Not much a tradeoff though as it doesn't matter how you spin it its still the best melee weapon in terms of damage in act 1.

I think dire flail is up there somewhere (with the correct skills it can be insane).

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I hate to be a broken record, thread after thread, but...

 

Kobolds don't care about Bearded Axe. They're Bearded Axeproof.

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Ironbound also don't give a **** about the bearded axe. Lots of ways of dealing with it. You can also just ignore it and keep spamming conditions on the player who has it.

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Ironbound also don't give a **** about the bearded axe. Lots of ways of dealing with it. You can also just ignore it and keep spamming conditions on the player who has it.

Golems also

rfisha likes this

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Ironbound also don't give a **** about the bearded axe. Lots of ways of dealing with it. You can also just ignore it and keep spamming conditions on the player who has it.

Golems also

 

 

I don't have the conversion kit or the first edition monsters, so I wouldn't know about that. The balance on them always seemed a bit suspect, but yeah, I suppose if they have immunity to pierce they'd be a good monster to use on someone rocking a bearded axe.

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Ironbound also don't give a **** about the bearded axe. Lots of ways of dealing with it. You can also just ignore it and keep spamming conditions on the player who has it.

Golems also

 

 

Yes - very true!  I select everytime I can when I see the Bearded Axe come out. 

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