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Tome of Chaos Undivided

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Technically speaking neither the Word Bearers nor the Iron Warriors have one (Dark Apostle and War(p)smith were originally exclusive to the two, but they are now just thematic/characteristic of them and technically generic), but the corresponding classes still have a strong aesthetic/conceptual association with them. The Black Legion also formally does not, but Veteran of the Long War is as Black Legion as you get (you get to pick an Alignment if you want one and then pick a piece of equipment and special ability from any other Space Marine class of your choice that shares that alignment or lack thereof, which is thematically pretty representative of the Black Legion). Thus, in terms of having a suitably themed/characteristic advanced class, every Legion can be said to be accounted for, and given that Veteran of the Long War covers the generic non-specific CSM/Black Legion advanced type and Tome of Decay also covers the quite general areas of Possessed, Black Crusades, and Daemon Princes (i.e. high level Black Crusade RPG) I have a hard time believing we'll get another expansion sourcebook.

 

I mean there are technically renegade Chapters like the Red Corsairs left, but that's about it. I guess also the Fallen of the Dark Angels, I rather dislike the Heresy novels and have no idea what their current status is (whether they are actually supposed to be Chaos Space Marines or not) in the most recent backstory. I feel like there isn't much territory left to cover as far as distinctive Chaos Space Marine advanced archetypes go, however.

Edited by Andkat

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I'd like to see the crafting (and drug) rules re-done so they're actually usable in the system, but FF is unlikely to hire someone to do basic system-level work given the freelancer basis their writers work on.  

 

Plus they need much better proofreading/editing.  The lack of a cohesive vision for the line (by that I mean all of the 40k rpgs) is obvious.  It's not as bad as, say, 2e Exalted, but it's close.  

DeathByGrotz and Tenebrae like this

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Plus they need much better proofreading/editing.  The lack of a cohesive vision for the line (by that I mean all of the 40k rpgs) is obvious.  It's not as bad as, say, 2e Exalted, but it's close.  

GMing both, I find it worse than E2, but your milage may vary.

Keffisch likes this

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My view might be influenced by the idea that, even shoddily proofread, the 40k rpg system is infinitely more playable than Exalted 2e. Combat doesn't take 3 hours, for example.

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My view might be influenced by the idea that, even shoddily proofread, the 40k rpg system is infinitely more playable than Exalted 2e. Combat doesn't take 3 hours, for example.

And my experience is the opposite - E2 combat doesn't need to take 2 hours. But as mentioned, Mileage may vary.

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Here is an idea that would be nice for BC. Frikan compile some of the Deathwatch material for equipment, cybernetics, weapons and the **** RT rules for the same and ship ownership and put some basic acquisition rules for said items into a book. I mean yeah its all well and good if your dm is willing to just hand you a ship when your group needs to get from A to B but sometimes it would be nice to have the crunch to back up this info. And the lack of a single call box that either says "RT aquisition rules/prices are the same/not the same as those in BC. Dms should do X if players want Y from RT books."  is glaring as a DM who has both systems. Finding gear thats in RT but for some reasion, that dosn't make thematic sense, isnt in BC just becomes a pain in the ass during characer creation some times.

 

A sinmple Web-Extra with conversion rules for items in each RT book to BC or from DW to BC i would pay 5$ for just so I can hand it to a player and say here stop whining about lack of interesting options for weapons/gear already.

 

Or the number of times a TT players in one of my games asks "So how much for a cyclone missle launcher for Termy plate? What? What do you mean we can't have them as CSM? WTF not? Its not like someone cant steal it off a dead LSM!" and such other statements when they go looking for things that the BC book conspiciously fails to mention. AT. ALL.

 

As far as im concerned anything that a heretek could consevably salvage from a fallen LSM or Imp Guard/RT should be something that should be listed SOMEWHERE. I mean sure add a "Salvaged tech quirks" Table or something and a "Salvaging Tech Results" table to balance it out but comeon there should atleast be a mention of doing so in the books.

 

...I'm gona stop ranting now. <.<

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Well, that's the point; if you want classical Loyalist wargear out of a Deathwatch book, the easy answer to your players is that it's not something to acquire via infamy tests - go murder some space marines and steal it!

 

(On a related note, this gives the players a chance to experience the task of trying to kill a loyalist terminator-armoured veteran squad that they dismiss so lightly*)

 

As to why they don't normally have them - you'll note chaos terminators in the TT game don't have them either because (for whatever reason) it's not something the dark mechanicus produce; at the time most of those magi went traitor, they didn't exist (much like the assault cannon) and they've kept producing what they know, instead (such as the reaper autocannon) or what they've developed themselves (like the ectoplasma cannon).

 

Getting hold of the gun probably isn't that hard in the grand scheme of things, but an acquisition in Rogue Trader or Black Crusade is assumed to include a steady supply of spares and basic ammunition, and those things will be hard to get hold of.

 

Also, in the specific case of a cyclone launcher - the terminator plate would need to be adapted to carry it: Contemporary Loyalist Indomitus-pattern terminator armour is designed with it in mind. The Cataphracti-pattern and other older marks of terminator armour that you're likely to find in the vortex won't be. A magos could adapt it for carrying the weapon, but modifying terminator plate is neither a cheap nor a quick task.

 

 

 

Any item or service from Rogue Trader or Dark Heresy or Only War that has a rarity value of abundant through to unique can slot straight into the Black Crusade acquisition system. If you want xenotech weapons, dark heresy wargear, guard dress uniforms, etc, then go right ahead and use items from those rulebooks.

 

Note that if you are using infamy to acquire items from Imperial Space you suffer a penalty, so it's probably not worth it to acquire a Lathe-forged bolt gun rather than a Hollows-forged one, but if you want something unique like a Lathe-blade, or Combat drugs from Iocathos, it might be worth the effort.

 

As to ships, I'm pretty sure that 'the services of a cruiser-class ship' is one of the acquisition examples in black crusade. Low and high passage around Imperial Space is in the Inquisitor's handbook and can be adapted across as above.

 

 

 

* I will warn you that a squad of five Storm Wardens Terminators will turn most heretic warbands to paste without breaking a sweat. If they say they want to try this make sure they really, really mean it.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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I would totally buy all the supplements for BC with more wargear, remade ship combat/actions/acquisitions etc. Non-class based (generic) ship actions are pretty boring in RT. Adding more Navigator-like powers for ship combat for psykers, or adding extra functionality to the existing ones, would make sense. FFG please add more cool stuff. How about psyker summoning a void kraken during the battle?
May be it's a good time to write our friend Tim an email and show some interest in that. What do you think guys?

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Given that a significant number of Space Marines have turned Renegade since the Heresy, it's actually quite implausible that there wouldn't be reserves of Assault Cannons and other post-Heresy Space Marine wargear in Traitor hands and/or that they wouldn't have been reverse-engineered or duplicated by at least one renegade Mechanicus Magos or group somewhere in the realms touched by Chaos. Whether the Screaming Vortex in particular (or wherever else you have set your campaign) is a refuge for the former or the latter is another question entirely.

 

I also wouldn't treat most of the gear from Dark Heresy etc. as necessarily having any penalty to acquisition from being from 'Imperial Space'. Many individual items could be expected to have their local analogues elsewhere in the Galaxy wherever sufficient industrial activity and technological creativity are present (i.e., the massive list of solid projectile weapon variants in Dark Heresy Inquisitor's Handbook, things like the Warp Blade from the Dark Heresy Radical's Handbook that would be a pretty flavorful and appropriate implement for any sufficiently sophisticated Dark Mechanicus faction, and so on and so forth). Additionally, there's quite a bit in Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader that isn't actually manufactured by the Imperium (or is otherwise illegal or remote) so I don't really see why there would be any special penalty to the acquisition of many of the items introduced only in RT/DH when considered in a Black Crusade context. What should be looked at is whether the availability provided by the source made any sense at all to begin with, which is not always the case. As someone who has never played in a campaign using any of the official FFG settings (Koronus Expanse, Screaming Vortex, etc.) I've never seen a reason to fret too much over the particulars of the geographic origin of some item or other element (just redefine them in context of wherever your campaign is set).

Edited by Andkat

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So now that I've read tome of Decay.

More Bionics

More mutations

More gifts for the gods.

more unusual gear (like the banners and totems) but not more weapons because we have no need of that.

I can't see it happening though, because really there isn't anything necessary - expanded tables would be nice, but that's more or less all we need.

I expect that to expand BC now, you will just have to buy other product lines to get the other items and new traits and talents.

Which would cover anything except mutations and gifts - at this point I'm hoping they convert 2nd edition tome of corruption for WFRPG into a pdf that matches BC and will be surprised if we even get that :P

Tenebrae and Amroth like this

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After reading my copy of ToD...I have to say I would love moe Bionics yes...but a polite little statement that is missing from that book that all three others had? PCs can take this X as a Follower at Talent Y. The only mention of this kind of thing in ToD is the single callout for Deamon Engines...which dosn't give the Nurgle types any special Nurgle only minions unlike everyone else...also...WTF are my Plauge Zombies and Plauge Sprayers?? Or atleast some kind of weapon mod that removes Flame and adds Corrosion/Toxic to Flamers? I mean yeah house rules and all its easy enough to do for both the Spayer and Zombies but comon it was simple and something that they could have put in to add more mechanics to the book rather then the section on Nurgle aligned worlds that were ALREADY covered in detail in the core book.

 

Someone needs to just write up a bunch of weapon Mods/Ammo types that make sense for some of the more flavourful things faction types would use. Toxin shells/rounds/blade mods oh heres one! POISONS!! theres a dozen or so places in the main book and ToD that say things like "Has Toxic (0) or other effects by poison loaded" And yet there isnt a single Poison in a BC book to date! Drugs, Diseases(that have to be loaded into something that says it can carry a disease...) thats it. Where the heck is the list of liquid death people. Some of this stuff should have been in ToD, it really should have.

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