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Andydriver

So my FSE wants a Light Saber

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Anyone ever give a player a Light Saber?  How did turn out?

 

My FSE player made a up a pretty cool back story and made a way for me to give him a light saber.  Not sure I want to do it, it might make him too powerful.

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I've not included lightsabers yet - but intend to give the chance to gain one in the future.

 

As deadly as they are (and rightly so), lightsabers are iconic weapons, and a lot of players will want to see them make an appearance - even if they're not the ones using them; that being said, it's you who will have to scale your game to accommodate the crew's newest advantage - are you willing/able to do so?

 

There are always ways for you to counterbalance the crew's assets, or at least keep the game challenging: inquisitors, increased enemy numbers, coming up with challenges that require something other than combat prowess to overcome, etc. At the end of the day, lightsabers come with their own baggage - and whipping one out in every combat is going to draw a lot of unwanted attention.

 

So... it depends on your group, and the player in question. A decent roleplayer is certainly worth giving the benefit of the doubt to.

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The crunchy rules for a lightsaber make it a decent weapon. Not game breaking, IMO. Joe Guns with blaster rifles, and Wookies with bowcasters, are considerably more deadly. At far longer range. And against vastly more targets.

 

Sure, the breach and sunder make for it being a unique and useful tool/weapon. But unlike the movies or shows, a lightsaber isn't going to give him uber-ninja powers. Things like deflecting or reflecting blaster fire is a function of jedi/sith training, not the weapon itself. So it's not going to be a substitute "force field" (pardon the pun).

 

But IMO, at the end of the day, how you are going to run the game will have lot more impact on whether he should have one than the rules.

 

The Empire actively hunts anyone they suspect as having force powers. A lightsaber kind of acts as a glowing neon sign (pardon another pun, I suppose) pointing to the guy and screaming, "Hey! Over here! This guy is keyed to the Force!".

 

Are you letting anyone who picks one up able to use it safely? I know a lot of people around here recommend house rules that make it dangerous to use when not a force user. And are you letting the PC start with rank(s) in lightsaber skill? Or do you want him to learn on the fly?

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Lightsabers are insanely powerful as they stand in all honesty. I mean, Breach is overkill early on, and you need to number crunch to beat it at all. As a GM, you'd basically be putting Cortosis on everything, which really sucks the fun out of the game when you think about it.

 

That said, I'd go more for a Lightfoil as they are easier to acquire if you know where to look and not nearly as overkill. There are three versions of them on a thread I started about the Tapani Sector a while back; one of mine, one from Donovan Morningfire and one from kinnison. All are pretty good but suited to our individual tastes/approaches, so pick the one you like best!

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I have a FS:Ex, and an FS:Em in my group and I haven't included the all important lightsaber yet. Though I have certainly started to drop the hints and planted the seeds. I imagine I can fan that fire all the way until GenCon.

 

ccarlson101 has the right of it, at a glance the glow stick is a sick weapon, but the big gun bunnies (especially with the Heavy being able to tote around a Heavy Repeating Blaster), will have the advantage with some work.

 

You should put consideration into how you are going to handle the lightsaber skill. It's not a class skill, nor even an official skill. Will you allow them to purchase ranks in lightsaber once they get one? or will the player have to seek out a tutor.

Edited by kaosoe

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I played a Force-user PC that I was hoping might some day get to wielding a lightsaber, but sadly that campaign has gone on indefinite hiatus.

 

LibrarianPC has a point that in terms of melee weapons, you'll be hard pressed to top the offensive performance of a lightsaber.  The only mitigating factor is that there's no actual Lightsaber skill for PCs to purchase, though EotE core rulebook does suggest the GM might create one if necessary.  At best, it'd be a non-career skill for most PCs (the Well-Rounded talent is a work-around for that, but it's not included in every spec), making it more costly to increase than Melee (which is a career skill for several specializations).  And even with just a raw Characteristic (Agility or Brawn), rolling against a standard 2 difficulty means you're going to be dishing out some punishment if you're rolling at least 3 ability dice.  Force-users also have the option of the offensive Control Upgrade for Sense, giving them two upgrades on their combat check, making the lightsaber even more potent in their hands.

 

Things are only going to get hairier where lightsabers are concerned once Force & Destiny gets released, as that will quite likely have various defensive options that PCs can acquire as well as a very high likelihood of being able to get Lightsaber as a career skill from various Jedi-related specializations.

 

But as has also been noted, PCs that have focused on high-damage weapons such as rifles (particularly heavy blaster rifle and disruptor rifle) are going to have a better damage output simply due to not having to waste time getting to Engaged with the target, and make their shots even more accurate by moving to Short Range (1 difficulty), and it's a lot easier to become really good at the Ranged (Heavy) skill than it is to become good at Lightsaber skill (assuming it exists in one's game).

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Lightsabers are insanely powerful as they stand in all honesty. I mean, Breach is overkill early on, and you need to number crunch to beat it at all.

I think I disagree. Breach isn't +10 damage. It's basically just "ignore soak". So the FSE is doing a flat 10+successes straight to WT. And as much as that sounds scary, IMX Joe Guns routinely dish out at least comparable damage to what I can see from a lightsaber wielder. And he gets to do it from behind cover. At range.

 

The only other thing I didn't cover in my first reply was the Crit 1/Vicious 2. Which is really nice. No question. But a Wookie or Trandoshan Marauder with a beefed up vibroaxe (to me at least) is just as, if not more, scary.

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I'll try my best to keep this post short and concise.

 

DO NOT FEAR PCS WITH LIGHTSABERS, THEY WON'T BREAK YOUR GAME!

 

We have a Bodyguard/FSE, I ran a whole adventure in a Sith Tomb, the end result for him was a Holocron left there by Darth Revan, containing instructions on how to build one (and a forboding warning with regards to the future of the Sith Race, why there should be only two, etc.).  I even put a crystal in the tomb for him, he chose orange.

 

Now he flips around dealing 10 damage to a single enemy per round, occasionally using Sunder. 

 

He doesn't even come CLOSE to dealing the damage that our Gadgeteer does with his 14 damage Heavy Blaster Rifle which is Jury Rigged, Superior, activates Auto-Fire with a single Advantage, which he gets for free if it doesn't get cancelled.

 

DO NOT FEAR ARMING YOUR PCS WITH LIGHTSABERS, THEY WON'T BREAK YOUR GAME! 

 

Auto-fire, however, just might.

Edited by CrunchyDemon

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What about the narrative effects of a Lightsaber?

 

I'm not worried about combat - I plan on house-ruling that because they're so dangerous and my FSE is completely untrained, it will add increased difficulty dice and potentially setbacks just for using it, with failures actually doing damage to her since it's just so **** dangerous.

 

What I'm concerned about is treating it like canon - if I have a locked or sealed door, she's just going to use her lightsaber on it. They're a smart group and will be constantly using it as a tool their toolbox, and I'm just concerned there will be more far-reaching implications than combat if I add it in.

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What about the narrative effects of a Lightsaber?

 

I'm not worried about combat - I plan on house-ruling that because they're so dangerous and my FSE is completely untrained, it will add increased difficulty dice and potentially setbacks just for using it, with failures actually doing damage to her since it's just so **** dangerous.

 

What I'm concerned about is treating it like canon - if I have a locked or sealed door, she's just going to use her lightsaber on it. They're a smart group and will be constantly using it as a tool their toolbox, and I'm just concerned there will be more far-reaching implications than combat if I add it in.

I think Despairs are better for potential self-crits. The narrative mechanic can use threat to cause enough other appropriate effects that don't involve the PC leaving a trail of body parts for the stormtroopers to follow...

 

As for the toolbox... take a note from George... don't use locked doors to stop the PCs... chasm, lava flows, force fields, diplomatic immunity, shielded droids with repeating blasters, fear checks, story clues, big signs that say "Plot this way," all can be effective at guiding them.

 

Besides, lightsaber or not most player groups I've played with tend assume the locked door is there specifically to be forced open...

Hygric, ccarlson101, Dramar and 7 others like this

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As for the toolbox... take a note from George... don't use locked doors to stop the PCs... chasm, lava flows, force fields, diplomatic immunity, shielded droids with repeating blasters, fear checks, story clues, big signs that say "Plot this way," all can be effective at guiding them.

 

Besides, lightsaber or not most player groups I've played with tend assume the locked door is there specifically to be forced open...

Unfortunately, I could only click "like" once...

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I'm hoping to put this one off until F&D. It's something my FSE player wants but I think he's willing to tell an interesting narrative to get there. No rush. It's kinda nice.

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I'm hoping to put this one off until F&D. It's something my FSE player wants but I think he's willing to tell an interesting narrative to get there. No rush. It's kinda nice.

That's the other side of the EotE coin on lightsabers that is cool. Because the weapon is not the end-all-be-all, characters (force sensitive or not) don't need one. They can function just fine without having the obligatory magic glow stick.

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What about the narrative effects of a Lightsaber?

 

I'm not worried about combat - I plan on house-ruling that because they're so dangerous and my FSE is completely untrained, it will add increased difficulty dice and potentially setbacks just for using it, with failures actually doing damage to her since it's just so **** dangerous.

 

What I'm concerned about is treating it like canon - if I have a locked or sealed door, she's just going to use her lightsaber on it. They're a smart group and will be constantly using it as a tool their toolbox, and I'm just concerned there will be more far-reaching implications than combat if I add it in.

 

Personally, I wouldn't add any extra negative effects - at least not for most scenarios. As it is per RAW, lightsabers cannot be trained in anyway (at least until F&D is out), so that's already installing a fair bit of a limit on their potential for good things popping up on rolls, especially if she starts going up against any adversaries. But substantial threat and despairs should still do a chunk of damage to herself unless she's decided to invest in Cortosis.

 

The more utility functions of a lightsaber could be an issue. But if you're just moving around an abandoned temple or something, make the doors big and thick. Sure, she can cut through that 2 foot thick wall, but she's going to have to sit there and make repeated checks (probably with Brawn, since it's not just a quick swipe) since she's going to be standing there for more than a few minutes, trying to get a hole into that thing. Same probably applies to blast doors - but probably for not as long. Cutting through a door or wall in an enemy base? Well, maybe they slice their way into where all the bad guy's minions hang out- and that hole that is slowly being made has allowed them to take defensive positions, or maybe they trip breaching alarms that would have otherwise been avoided if they tried to trick or jury-rig the door open with slicing/mechanics/skulduggery.

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What are the social costs of wielding a lightsaber?  Order 66 and all...

 

 

Now, I found this bit from the Kenobi novel interesting: there are people in the outer rim that don't know what a jedi is, even mere months after the end of the clone wars.  Does that jive with what you all have seen?   Could Kenobi have continued to wear his traditional jedi garb for decades and nobody noticed?

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Thanks for replies!

 

Reading through I think I'm going to allow him to get one but I don't give him the lightsaber skill until it's an "official" PC skill in F&D.  I believe having only a few green dice to work with plus the fact he could draw the attention of a certain Dark Lord will keep him from over doing it.  

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What are the social costs of wielding a lightsaber?  Order 66 and all...

 

 

Now, I found this bit from the Kenobi novel interesting: there are people in the outer rim that don't know what a jedi is, even mere months after the end of the clone wars.  Does that jive with what you all have seen?   Could Kenobi have continued to wear his traditional jedi garb for decades and nobody noticed?

 

I find it plausible. Look at A New Hope. Luke walks into that bar, and openly flashes around his lightsaber on his belt, nobody cares. Obi-wan busts his out to slice a guy's arm off. Nobody cares about the violence or the saber (barring one guy who obviously snitches in the hope of earning credits - or whatever - from the Empire). To most people where the Jedis probably didn't have much of an influence, they just see a person wielding a weapon banned by the Empire.

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What are the social costs of wielding a lightsaber?  Order 66 and all...

 

 

Now, I found this bit from the Kenobi novel interesting: there are people in the outer rim that don't know what a jedi is, even mere months after the end of the clone wars.  Does that jive with what you all have seen?   Could Kenobi have continued to wear his traditional jedi garb for decades and nobody noticed?

 

I find it plausible. Look at A New Hope. Luke walks into that bar, and openly flashes around his lightsaber on his belt, nobody cares. Obi-wan busts his out to slice a guy's arm off. Nobody cares about the violence or the saber (barring one guy who obviously snitches in the hope of earning credits - or whatever - from the Empire). To most people where the Jedis probably didn't have much of an influence, they just see a person wielding a weapon banned by the Empire.

 

 

I'm not sure that "nobody cares", though. That Kubaz goes and tattles to the Stormtroopers who come back and take an interest in Ben's handiwork.

 

I do think it's great to keep in mind that probably very few people know what a Jedi is in certain parts of the galaxy. It's an ancient religion and people in the Outer Rim are just trying to get by.

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If someone was wanting it badly I'd allow it.  I'd make a grand production of it all.  I think they should be viewed just like using Force powers.  The Imperials are on the look out.  They're going to grab or try and grab anyone that uses one.  It's a risk to take it out openly.

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What are the social costs of wielding a lightsaber?  Order 66 and all...

 

 

Now, I found this bit from the Kenobi novel interesting: there are people in the outer rim that don't know what a jedi is, even mere months after the end of the clone wars.  Does that jive with what you all have seen?   Could Kenobi have continued to wear his traditional jedi garb for decades and nobody noticed?

 

I take the UE with plenty of salt, but...

 

In my games I believe in the "it's a big galaxy" angle. All the planets we know about represent a mere fraction of the Republic/Empire, so there's plenty of places out there that haven't been molested by the Jedi and only know about them through (at best) second hand accounts (I mean how many Jedi were there total anyway a few hundred thousand, a million or so at most?) and even then, how pervasive and accurate were those accounts?

 

So for everyone that thinks a Jedi's uniform is tan and brown robes, there's millions more that think it's a maroon tube-top and grey tights... For everyone that's seen a Jedi use the force to throw a landspeeder across the street, there's millions more that read a textbook that refered to the Jedi as Monks no different then the Bomarr... For everyone that's seen a lightsaber, there's millions more that have seen Gamorreans with a vibro axe..

 

Add to that the non-Imperial interest in keeping Jediness on the down low (the galaxy is full of nasty people that don't want the population think the Jedi will help them if they only ask) and yeah, you've got a lot of ignorant beings that don't know, don't care, or don't want to be involved...

 

This is also why in my campaigns there's still plenty of Jedi artifacts out there for someone willing to look. Palpy wasn't concerned about every Jedi pottery shard out there, because it didn't matter. So what if Dominar Hooba-Joob of Hyneria had a 1m tall statue the the great Jedi B'utts M'alone in his private collection? Hooba-Joob isn't a Jedi, and it's a private collection, he's the only one that's ever going to see it. As long as Tapani U's library has nothing but books saying the Jedi are "just a bunch of religious nut bars who got in good with a Supreme Chancellor  way back when and then tried to stage a coup that was stopped because Emperor Palpy is amazing, and cool, and good looking, and the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being you'll ever know in your life" it's all good.

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Lightsabers are insanely powerful as they stand in all honesty. I mean, Breach is overkill early on, and you need to number crunch to beat it at all.

I think I disagree. Breach isn't +10 damage. It's basically just "ignore soak". So the FSE is doing a flat 10+successes straight to WT. And as much as that sounds scary, IMX Joe Guns routinely dish out at least comparable damage to what I can see from a lightsaber wielder. And he gets to do it from behind cover. At range.

 

The only other thing I didn't cover in my first reply was the Crit 1/Vicious 2. Which is really nice. No question. But a Wookie or Trandoshan Marauder with a beefed up vibroaxe (to me at least) is just as, if not more, scary.

 

I never said that Breach was +10 damage, but since it ignores 10 points of soak it is a rather brutal thing to have around. Sure, against an unarmored opponent it doesn't mean as much, but considering my toughest player at the table has Brawn 3, Melee 2 with a Vibro-Ax (btw, he's the DOCTOR), Pierce is more of a minor thing and doesn't appear overkill.

Now ignoring all of the soak of my minions and even some of the rivals I can cook up is a bit of a concern.

 

Big Joe Guns, on the other hand, doesn't get Pierce and will need a number of talents to really make him comparable. At the get-go, the Lightsaber is the more powerful weapon. (More on this in a moment) 

 

Don't get me wrong: I love how deadly the weapon is, but I also know that they needed to be handed out with great care due to Breach, a low critical rating, Sunder, and Vicious.

 

 

I'll try my best to keep this post short and concise.

 

DO NOT FEAR PCS WITH LIGHTSABERS, THEY WON'T BREAK YOUR GAME!

 

We have a Bodyguard/FSE, I ran a whole adventure in a Sith Tomb, the end result for him was a Holocron left there by Darth Revan, containing instructions on how to build one (and a forboding warning with regards to the future of the Sith Race, why there should be only two, etc.).  I even put a crystal in the tomb for him, he chose orange.

 

Now he flips around dealing 10 damage to a single enemy per round, occasionally using Sunder. 

 

He doesn't even come CLOSE to dealing the damage that our Gadgeteer does with his 14 damage Heavy Blaster Rifle which is Jury Rigged, Superior, activates Auto-Fire with a single Advantage, which he gets for free if it doesn't get cancelled.

 

DO NOT FEAR ARMING YOUR PCS WITH LIGHTSABERS, THEY WON'T BREAK YOUR GAME! 

 

Auto-fire, however, just might.

 

I agree that they won't break the game, but I do have to admit that it is not a weapon you want to be giving out without deliberation with the current rulesets.

 

In regard to your situation with the Heavy Blaster Rifle, you needed quite a few talents and modifications to make it that way, and even then you won't have any way of reducing soak values. 

 

 

Then again, no matter how you look at it, the right weapon in the right hands is insanely deadly. One of my players (the Bodyguard) has been using a shotgun in my game (a slugthrower rifle with a small Blast quality) since he started in January, and he tends to be deadlier than the Assassin with a blaster rifle.

 

 

 

 

 

What about the narrative effects of a Lightsaber?

 

I'm not worried about combat - I plan on house-ruling that because they're so dangerous and my FSE is completely untrained, it will add increased difficulty dice and potentially setbacks just for using it, with failures actually doing damage to her since it's just so **** dangerous.

 

What I'm concerned about is treating it like canon - if I have a locked or sealed door, she's just going to use her lightsaber on it. They're a smart group and will be constantly using it as a tool their toolbox, and I'm just concerned there will be more far-reaching implications than combat if I add it in.

 

A lot of this was already covered with some in-depth stuff by Ghostofman, but here's a few things to consider:

 

Narrative effects of a lightsaber? Well, they are outlawed, and wearing one won't just be a fine, but possible arrest and death for "supporting" the Jedi in some way. They are also a sign to some of a better time, or the belief that the person who is wearing it abides by the ideals of a Jedi and will be sought for help.

 

As for your penalties, I understand the concern but wonder if it's overkill. At most, I'd offer the increased difficulty, but even then I'd wonder if the same should be said for ALL weapons. Yes, the lightsaber is known for dismemberment, but who's to say that you can't really hurt yourself with a Force Pike, a Vibro-Ax or even by mistreating a blaster and it blowing up in your hand?

If you're going to cause an untrained penalty, be ready to do it for all of them, but the current mechanic seems to handle situations like that well enough with the limitation on just green dice and not yellow. You may just be better off spending a Destiny Point and making things interesting for the lightsaber user from time to time.

 

Finally, Ghostofman beat me to it: there's a lot out there that a lightsaber can't handle outside of combat. You just need to get creative with it.

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Big Joe Guns, on the other hand, doesn't get Pierce...

Methinks thou dost forgeteth attachments such as Augnmented Spin Barrels and Bowcaster Accelerators...

 

And all Pierce is, effectively, is a damage bonus in most cases. So what's the difference when you could have a Joe Gun using a heavy rifle doing minimum 16 damage a hit? And that's without going crazy and getting carried away...

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