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ThenDoctor

Tome of Decay annoucned!

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To be honest this book would probably been received better if their was not that massive wait between the Slannesh book and this one. As my ( and many other's) favorite chaos god There was a lot of hope that this book would be awesome, combined with the excessive wait and the bar was set really high in most peoples minds.  Oddly enough what is in the book is actually pretty good ( well except that adventure, but get to that latter) it is what was not put in the book that seems to be most irksome.

The intro to nurgual was exallent, still have an image of O'l papa nurgal offering up a glass of lemonade to passerby's in my head

even little things like a Nurgal themed familiar like the other books got ( plague zombie springs to mind here),

no ranged weapons added ( heck this would be a great place for the radiation weapons found in deathwatch for example) melee selection was alright, even if they reused plague knives from core book, disease section should have been at least double to make me happy about that ( seriously, not tech viruses, or Nurgual's rot? ) and n new armor or gear entrees.

have no issue with deamon creation rules, seem like a natural extension of deamon weapons.

liked the possessed rules.

will never allow a deamon prince in the party, but seemed balanced for continued play

similarly will never run the black crusade, but not bad if very "risk 40k"ish

This is because I think the whole hard end to an rpg is a very interesting mechanic that I don't want to get rid of

really needed vehicle rules at this point

nurgle worlds was an interesting chapter, thou wish there was at least one where the sickness idea was more spirit or mental based than all " everywhere is slime"

expected spread of enemies

That "adventure" was total crap though. Sorry to who ever wrote it, but show up to swamp, wander swamp, die, Deamon prince idea not only comes across as ham fisted, but uninspired. If a GM was going to run this, they might as well go " come back next section and start end game raids as run it.

UncleSickey likes this

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Well, finally got the ToD in the mail last week.  Many thanks to FFG for not bringing it to GenCon for purchase; guess you had too many star wars mini's to pack!

 

Having a few months to read through this post surgery; I sure am glad I got this off of Amazon at 50% off or I'd have just thrown it away for complete lack of usefulness.  Sorry, playing the old DoW II; my favorite character was always the plauge marine; able to shrug off insane damage and just plod ahead, his bilew spewer spraying to and fro; spreading Grandpa's gifts about willy-nilly!

 

For a book of Nurgle that is mainly about 20% about nurgle with 80% bull thrown in as filler and end-game crap; I'm very saddened by this book.  Not one bile spewer huh?  Guess that's the new canon in 40k; just shitcan any weapon that may take more than 5 min to toss some stats at it.

 

Looks like I'm going back to my old BC group and load up our daemonic war engine with babies and shoot them at the Imp's just for fun!

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Well, finally got the ToD in the mail last week.  Many thanks to FFG for not bringing it to GenCon for purchase; guess you had too many star wars mini's to pack!

 

Having a few months to read through this post surgery; I sure am glad I got this off of Amazon at 50% off or I'd have just thrown it away for complete lack of usefulness.  Sorry, playing the old DoW II; my favorite character was always the plauge marine; able to shrug off insane damage and just plod ahead, his bilew spewer spraying to and fro; spreading Grandpa's gifts about willy-nilly!

 

For a book of Nurgle that is mainly about 20% about nurgle with 80% bull thrown in as filler and end-game crap; I'm very saddened by this book.  Not one bile spewer huh?  Guess that's the new canon in 40k; just shitcan any weapon that may take more than 5 min to toss some stats at it.

 

Looks like I'm going back to my old BC group and load up our daemonic war engine with babies and shoot them at the Imp's just for fun!

DeathByGrotz likes this

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Man, seems to be a lot of hate for this book. Well, I'm no big Nurgle fan, he's my least favorite god, so maybe I'd feel differently if this were another god's book, but I liked it. Like some of you, I'm thinking this'll probably be the last book, so they went ahead and put in all the endgame stuff for it here. As for me, I'm glad they put it all in. I'd hate to see one of the Legions not be covered because they're waiting for an unaligned book that's never coming. Black Legion, Iron Warriors, I wanted to see them all. Princedom I'm not that interested in, but Black Crusades yes. And while I wasn't that interested in the premise of the last adventure (didn't seen so very nurglish to me) I'd certainly consider the series of illusionary encounters for another adventure. It really did sound like an ultimate trial to me (though not one for Slaanesh's chosen, maybe.)

Um, fgdsfg, I know you said you don't have any malice for FFG, but since people can't convey tone of voice across a screen, sometimes it's hard to tell if you're logically debating something, which your argument can be read as, or complaining about everything you don't like, which is how I first read your argument. It's an emotional response, I think, which colors perception. Sorry, I just don't want to see arguments turn into hate, I've seen enough flame wars to last me a lifetime. Sorry. Thank you. Sorry.

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 Sorry, I just don't want to see arguments turn into hate, I've seen enough flame wars to last me a lifetime. Sorry. Thank you. Sorry.

 

I fell into a burning ring of fire

I logged on, on, on and the flames went higher

And I post, post, post, the thread's on fire

the thread's on fire

 

The taste of hate is sweet

When trolls like us meet

I trolled you like you're a child

Oh, but the chat went wild

 

And it burns, burns, burns, the thread's on fire

the thread's on fire

the thread's on fire

the thread's on fire

Edited by Robin Graves
Fgdsfg likes this

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Quickest way to turn something into a flame war is to ignore a solid review or argument and assign "malicious intent" to its poster. If you don't want a flame war, don't do it.

Chaplain likes this

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I just saw the statline for Blight Drones, thinking "Hell yeah, I love myself some Blight Drones, I'm sure they're in Tome of Decay, finally."

And I'm like.

Wat.

The.

Wat.

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I don't have tome of decay infront of me, is it the mechanical blight drones or the flies that nurgle demons ride on? I don't know the rules for either but forgeworld models sometimes have...odd rules.

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Not sure what stats they had in the mini game.

What's the problem?

 

...apparently nothing. My life is a lie. I always envisioned Blight Drones to be relatively small, man-size or perhaps slightly larger.

But after actually checking them next to other units in TT, it turns out that they are indeed absolutely massive, supposedly equal in size to a bloody Greater Daemon.

Jeeez.

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Ah, yes, the forgeworld ones. They be huge. They're more like autonomous flying gunships then tiny drones. I think it's the drone name that throws people off about the size.

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Ah, yes, the forgeworld ones. They be huge. They're more like autonomous flying gunships then tiny drones. I think it's the drone name that throws people off about the size.

 

I've loved the idea of Blight Drones for years, and suddenly I learn that they are apparently massive things. It's odd to think that none of the sources where I've read about them mentions that at all. Not even the description in the Tome of Decay, I think, mentions it.

It wasn't until I saw the statline that I went "Wait, what? What the hell?" and went searching for an actual picture of the model next to other models. I've seen countless pictures of the Blight Drone model - but never beside another model.

My life is a lie.

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So you are an acolyte :)

 

I always figured they were the size of a dark eldar Talos. Guess i saw a pic with then near space marines but can't find where.

 

How about homebrewing some tiny plague drones? maybe corrupted servo skulls with ranged weapons who do toxic damage, and explode as bligh grenades when destroyed.

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Depends on what you go with, really. The blight drones in Space Marine, for example, are fairly small, about the size of a guardsman. Given what they are, though, it really makes sense to have them in a variety of sizes and shapes and not just one, uniform type.

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It wasn't until I saw the statline that I went "Wait, what? What the hell?" and went searching for an actual picture of the model next to other models. I've seen countless pictures of the Blight Drone model - but never beside another model.

My life is a lie.

And this is why you shouldn't always assume the worst. ;)

BYE

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While I too see the inclusion of Daemon Prince and Black Crusade mechanics as a Sign of the End Times, I can't find much fault with the book. What I've read so far looks pretty good: Interesting Archetypes, some new toys to play with, Daemon Prince rules and a tactical wargame for the Black Crusade itself. Nice.

 

...well, except for the fact that the scale of a Black Crusade seems too small size-wise again. A Host can consist of "several hundred disciplined and well-equipped soldiers such as renegade Guardsmen". Five hosts are generally superior to the defense of every Territory (~=important planet) that is not a dominion of Space Marines, even without a Lieutenant to guide them.

Let's be gracious here and assume "several hundred" means "almost a thousand". So... conquering a planet with 5000 soldiers? Really?

Again, my favorite comparison: World War II saw more than twenty million combatants only on the Axis side, which was obviously not enough to conquer the non-Axis parts of our planet.

 

I know that waving numbers with that many zeroes around makes people uncomfortable. Talking about the gazillions of soldiers marching, lurching or slithering under your command makes the whole thing feel cartoonish at first. But please stop being afraid of the numbers. 40k is all about seemingly absurd sizes and this is the one place where they actually add to the realism.

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While I too see the inclusion of Daemon Prince and Black Crusade mechanics as a Sign of the End Times, I can't find much fault with the book. What I've read so far looks pretty good: Interesting Archetypes, some new toys to play with, Daemon Prince rules and a tactical wargame for the Black Crusade itself. Nice.

 

...well, except for the fact that the scale of a Black Crusade seems too small size-wise again. A Host can consist of "several hundred disciplined and well-equipped soldiers such as renegade Guardsmen". Five hosts are generally superior to the defense of every Territory (~=important planet) that is not a dominion of Space Marines, even without a Lieutenant to guide them.

Let's be gracious here and assume "several hundred" means "almost a thousand". So... conquering a planet with 5000 soldiers? Really?

Again, my favorite comparison: World War II saw more than twenty million combatants only on the Axis side, which was obviously not enough to conquer the non-Axis parts of our planet.

 

I know that waving numbers with that many zeroes around makes people uncomfortable. Talking about the gazillions of soldiers marching, lurching or slithering under your command makes the whole thing feel cartoonish at first. But please stop being afraid of the numbers. 40k is all about seemingly absurd sizes and this is the one place where they actually add to the realism.

 

I'll take full responsibility for that one. I had to strike a balance between the teeming legions you wanted (and if I'm being completely honest, that I wanted too), and the fact that if I made Hosts that big, the odds of players having a force worth speaking of prior to launching burning Infamy on new Crusade Forces would be extremely low. I erred on the side of making all the sessions you would play leading up to that point matter more, as I didn't want it to feel like an entirely different campaign or game system once you got into the subsystem.

 

Fortunately, the details of Host numbers are something that is extremely easy to tweak--the only mechanical interaction the number of troops in a Host matters for is the conversion of previous assets at the start. Just declare that a Host is actually a force in whatever numerical range you feel is more appropriate, and then slot in all the other values from there. Also works for stuff like Fleets--if you want a fleet to be a couple squadrons of cruisers minimum, just declare it ahead of time. The system won't break if you do so.

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Those several hundred could include chaos sorcerors with rituals that can crack planets in twain.

They actually couldn't because ToD (funny acronym, by the way, if you know German) notes them to be something akin to renegade guardsmen - sorcerous prowess is considered a Cabal, not a Host.

 

@RocketPropelledGrenade

Good point, indeed. However, I feel like it emphasizes the need for larger troop sizes in the majority of supplements even more - if everyone went around and used large numbers where appropriate, the PCs would have a chance to actually meet, ally with and/or subjugate those and then use them in a Crusade of their own. Since few supplements provide numbers like these, it gets harder to use them later on.

Still, I completely understand your point as such numbers escalate a game into scales most of us are unfamiliar with as they tend to produce faceless masses of NPCs with little distinguishing features and logistical problems one has to guesstimate.

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