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crazytom

Maneuvers and Drawing Weapons

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The rule set in the core rule book seems to suggest that it costs a maneuver to draw a weapon.  How are people handling this.  In theory a character could be carrying his weapon (like a two handed weapon).  Do you have characters sometime draw weapons in the narrative before entering an encounter.  I guess what I am asking, is your group spending maneuvers to draw weapons in most or every case?

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It states pretty clearly that drawing a weapon is a maneuver. In fact, there's a talent (Quick Draw) which costs XP to be able to draw weapons as an incidental.

 

I try to remember to require the PCs who don't have Quick Draw to spend a maneuver to draw their weapon. I'd look at more like "Draw and ready their weapon".

 

If you're carrying a two-handed blaster rifle, but you're just walking around looking at stuff and don't feel you're in any particular danger, it would require a maneuver to 'draw and ready' your weapon.

 

If you're creeping through an enemy base or a dangerous jungle, it's up to the PC to indicate "I've got my rifle ready." In that case, I consider they've already got it drawn when the encounter starts.

 

We have a droid character who wanted to have "finger guns", but I made it clear to her that this would still require a maneuver to draw (unless Quick Draw applies), to keep it balanced with the other players.

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Cool.  I am new, still learning the rules.  I had not thought of the quick draw talent.  But makes total sense.  Even your example of the creeping through the enemy base, I might still required characters to ready their weapon.  I guess it just comes down to situational realism and GM judgment.

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Possibly incidental just to drop the stimpack after.  Unless you want to site the character for littering!

 

Good point, I think a Stimpack is a one-use thing, so yeah.

 

I'd require the characters to indicate to me that their weapons were ready if they want them to be drawn at the start of a combat encounter. If they say "As we creep through this jungle, I have my weapon drawn," then they don't need to do the maneuver if they're ambushed by nexu and a combat encounter begins.

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It gets even more complicated when it comes to Stimpacks. 

 

Based on the way I read the rules, it would cost one maneuver to draw a Stimpack and one maneuver to use it, and another to stow it again.

There is a new Belt Pouch in Dangerous Covenants that allows storing and drawing of up to two Enc 0 items without using maneuvers. It is perfect for stimpacks.

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If a character is holding a weapon such as a staff or rifle I wouldn't require them to spend an action, but I might inflict some strain on them if they tell me they're doing so for a long time. I've been in the military and a rifle gets heavy after an hour or so.

 

If a character can justify how they have the equipment on web gear I'd treat it like the pouch in Dangerous Covenants. The cool thing about this game is that if it makes sense and doesn't ruin the game you can just go with it.

 

Personally, my pet peeve is when characters claim they can dig things out of a backpack in the middle of a fight as a maneuver.  That's an action or the use of some talent. Normal people can't search their luggage that fast.  Just ask the TSA.

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The cool thing about this game is that if it makes sense and doesn't ruin the game you can just go with it.

Truth.

 

If anything, FFG's ruleset really allows you to stretch the Rule of Cool and not have to worry about accidentally "breaking" the game.

 

Personally, my pet peeve is when characters claim they can dig things out of a backpack in the middle of a fight as a maneuver.  That's an action or the use of some talent. Normal people can't search their luggage that fast.  Just ask the TSA. 

 

I'd allow it. Combat rounds are as long as necessary so there's time to sling a bag around a shoulder, reach into a side-pouch, and retrieve that stun grenade or whatever. I see backpacks in EotE as serving two mechanical purposes:

  1. They give you 4 additional encumberance
  2. If you're over-encumbered, they let you drop in a single incidental however much encumberance you need to shed for the situation and then pick it up again with a single maneuver.

Even in Pathfinder/d20, retrieving a stored item is a single move action (that provokes). Since there are no attacks of opportunity in EotE, there is really no mechanical reason to track which items are in a backpack or not.

 

(Sidenote: Everything you need to know about backpacks.) 

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I agree with Deve that a PC being able to reach into a backpack to grab something as a Maneuver is fine.  A character's turn in combat is anywhere from a minute to several minutes, with no hard-and-fast structure in place.

 

As for the TSA comparison, remember that they're generally not going to be familiar with the organization of items in a bag, and more importantly that they're actively searching the contents to find contraband.  I've seen TSA agents struggle with trying to find a given item in a woman's purse, only for the owner to simply reach in (with permission) and pluck the item in question out in a few seconds.

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If a character is holding a weapon such as a staff or rifle I wouldn't require them to spend an action, but I might inflict some strain on them if they tell me they're doing so for a long time. I've been in the military and a rifle gets heavy after an hour or so.

 

To me, some of this is an aspect of how they do on a Vigilance roll.  If they are carrying their weapon and are being ambushed (ie: rolling Vigilance), I'd let them, say, spend a Triumph or a couple Advantage to not have do a maneuver.  This might put them a bit lower on the Initiative chart, but it might be worth it to them.

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Back to the OP, I also equate drawing a weapon with drawing(obviously), loading, arming and safety-off.  As well as bringing it to bear in a fire-ready physical posture.  That time may be only seconds, but it requires thought and attention, or at the very least training and muscle memory.  Therefore a maneuver is a reasonable cost.

 

As relates to an earlier example, walking through a market or loading cargo into a speeder would mean that your personal offensive weaponry would be in a state of "safe to carry."  This would also mean brass knuckles in pockets and knives, etc. not only in sheaths, but strapped/buckled in.  I don't care what the player says, if they try and convince me their weapons are always ready to go, they are going to be dropping stuff all of the time.  Nothing stays put on your person unless it is in a secure pocket or strapped in.  I'm a carpenter with a tool belt clambering all over a jobsite, I know these things.  Having said that, I am not a combat-trained professional, but there are only two careers in this game that are, so...

 

In terms of mechanics, FFG have created attachments, items and talents to mitigate this cost, so allowing players to bypass the mechanic unnecessarily devalues these things and creates imbalance.  No player will see any value in spending XP on Quick Draw if you hand wave the Draw/holster/mess with Gear maneuver.  Further, if they need to take Quick Draw to get to a more desired talent, this will only create resentment at the added cost for an unused talent.  

 

That said, the above posts allowing players to declare weapons ready before initiative makes perfect sense to me, and my players don't abuse it by walking around "weapons ready" all day long.

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If a character is holding a weapon such as a staff or rifle I wouldn't require them to spend an action, but I might inflict some strain on them if they tell me they're doing so for a long time. I've been in the military and a rifle gets heavy after an hour or so.

 

To me, some of this is an aspect of how they do on a Vigilance roll.  If they are carrying their weapon and are being ambushed (ie: rolling Vigilance), I'd let them, say, spend a Triumph or a couple Advantage to not have do a maneuver.  This might put them a bit lower on the Initiative chart, but it might be worth it to them.

 

This was actually suggested by Sam Stewart during the Q&A episodes of the Order 66 Podcast, namely letting a PC spend a Triumph on their initiative check to get a bonus Maneuver, which could in turn be used to draw a weapon before the violence goes down.  He did seem hesitant on spending Advantage, mostly as those are there to serve as tie-breakers, but if the GM's cool with letting the PC risk going after an NPC, then let the PC spend 'em.

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Everyone's game is different, so if you're cool with super fast checking your backpack for stuff...

 

It's my pet peeve because I've been behind the guy who needs a minute (or ten) to unload his **** laptop to go through the scanners. While there are some folks who can do it fast, they're the minority in my experience. They're the PCs with quickdraw in my book.

 

Also it's one thing to unload luggage when no one is actively trying to kill you. When folks are swinging away at you or shooting it's a whole different issue. Nervous people have manual dexterity problems. Don't believe me? Try typing a sentence with your boss looking over your shoulder. Now imagine dodging for your life while you try to get your ear buds out of your travel backpack. No matter what people who drive and use cell phones tell you, humans are terrible multi-taskers.

 

If you really do kneel down in the middle of a fight to rummage through your backpack looking for your brain cells, you deserve to be perforated by nasty things. At the very least that's some blue dice for the enemy. If he hits you its a win for Dr. Darwin.

Edited by Aservan

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Now imagine dodging for your life while you try to get your ear buds out of your travel backpack. No matter what people who drive and use cell phones tell you, humans are terrible multi-taskers.

Humans on planet Earth, sure.

 

Heroes in a Galaxy Far Far Away in a fantasy sci-fi universe who regularly do awesome things like swing across bottomless pits using a tiny grappling hook with a princess in your arms while faceless minions of an oppressive government fire freakin' laser beams at you, however, call digging through their fanny packs in the middle of combat a "holiday." :D

 

If the game you and your players want to play is a game where opening a haversack requires justification, then more power to you. If my game were less fun than watching the namesake movies on iTunes, I'm going to pick iTunes. The snacks are just as delicious and it's a lot less work. ;)

Edited by Deve Sunstriker

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Military packs have quick release straps, and one can pack their luggage to know where something is in the pack or pocket.  So I'd probably allow the maneuver with the caveat that they've dropped their pack.  Whether that becomes an issue would depend on the scenario specifics.

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I have characters take an extra Maneuver to get stuff out of a Backpack or Duffle during combat to offset the somewhat vague ENC rules when it comes to those items. I backpack several times a year so I'm pretty used to packing and unpacking and it just doesn't feel right to make it as easy as getting something from a holster or belt pouch. I figure, and my group agrees, that if you're getting that much extra ENC allowing you to carry significantly more stuff an extra Maneuver is a small price to pay for it to feel right.

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Just curious what all y'all are doing for dual wielders? Say, a PC with two blaster pistols. Or a pair of vibroknives...

 

Do you require two maneuvers to draw and/or holster them? What if the PC has Quick Draw (which is a non-rank talent)?

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2 maneuvers, or 1 maneuver and a Quick Draw incidental.

 

I've never had a problem with it, especially since most my group doesn't even aim most of the time anyways and whenever the melee player tries to dual wield, he either misses completely or never gets the advantage to take advantage of dual wielding - so this actually helps him get in a solid hit on the enemy before he switches to missing half the time.

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Just curious what all y'all are doing for dual wielders? Say, a PC with two blaster pistols. Or a pair of vibroknives...

 

Do you require two maneuvers to draw and/or holster them? What if the PC has Quick Draw (which is a non-rank talent)?

 

When I'm a player our GM has no maneuver cost as I have Quick Draw.

 

When I GM it it's 1 maneuver to draw 2 weapons, incidental if the player picks up Quick Draw.

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As to the OP, I second the notion of incurring strain for prolonged "weapon holding," if a player is trying to keep their weapon "ready" at all times. This could simply be because a weapon is heavy, but more often could be because of societal or stress-related implications. If you are carrying around a weapon in a populated area, it's could be just a matter of time before the local authorities get involved for "disturbing the peace" or whatnot. And if you're in the wilderness, holding that weapon and being alert takes a toll mentally. So if your strain threshold is exceeded in either situation, you could be in for some trouble. 

 

Regarding two weapons, I'd usually require 2 maneuvers to draw. The fact that Quick Draw specifies it can only be used once per round can't have too many other meanings, besides maybe someone trying to use a vibrosword one round and then a pistol the next, while on the move. Two weapon fighting can be a very powerful thing and is easily optimized, so requiring a second maneuver to draw is hardly unreasonable. 

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As to the OP, I second the notion of incurring strain for prolonged "weapon holding," if a player is trying to keep their weapon "ready" at all times. This could simply be because a weapon is heavy, but more often could be because of societal or stress-related implications. If you are carrying around a weapon in a populated area, it's could be just a matter of time before the local authorities get involved for "disturbing the peace" or whatnot. And if you're in the wilderness, holding that weapon and being alert takes a toll mentally. So if your strain threshold is exceeded in either situation, you could be in for some trouble. 

 

Regarding two weapons, I'd usually require 2 maneuvers to draw. The fact that Quick Draw specifies it can only be used once per round can't have too many other meanings, besides maybe someone trying to use a vibrosword one round and then a pistol the next, while on the move. Two weapon fighting can be a very powerful thing and is easily optimized, so requiring a second maneuver to draw is hardly unreasonable. 

Yah but ask yourself is that very gunslinger cool?  Plus practicing your draw is as important as marksmanship.  I think someone who is adept a dual wielding would be very adept at the draw.

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As to the OP, I second the notion of incurring strain for prolonged "weapon holding," if a player is trying to keep their weapon "ready" at all times. This could simply be because a weapon is heavy, but more often could be because of societal or stress-related implications. If you are carrying around a weapon in a populated area, it's could be just a matter of time before the local authorities get involved for "disturbing the peace" or whatnot. And if you're in the wilderness, holding that weapon and being alert takes a toll mentally. So if your strain threshold is exceeded in either situation, you could be in for some trouble. 

 

Regarding two weapons, I'd usually require 2 maneuvers to draw. The fact that Quick Draw specifies it can only be used once per round can't have too many other meanings, besides maybe someone trying to use a vibrosword one round and then a pistol the next, while on the move. Two weapon fighting can be a very powerful thing and is easily optimized, so requiring a second maneuver to draw is hardly unreasonable. 

Yah but ask yourself is that very gunslinger cool?  Plus practicing your draw is as important as marksmanship.  I think someone who is adept a dual wielding would be very adept at the draw.

 

That's all well and good. And if they've invested a significant amount of XP into fighting with those two weapons, I might change my ruling for them. But as a general rule, 2 maneuvers for 2 weapons. If you wanna call yourself a gunslinger, show me the money (wherein "money" is a euphemism for talents and skills). 

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