Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
FootNote

Basic Questions

Recommended Posts

 

It would be very easy to play a Galactic Ranger type of game, but would probably be best done with a mix of Edge and AoR careers. The same kind of skillsets that are useful in the military or as a criminal can be useful in law enforcement.

 

Can be useful, true.  But if they were the same, there wouldn't be any.  

 

But I'll just have to wait until AoR releases to actually see what is there.   

 

I hope the PC playable careers are not just all Rebel.  In EotE, anything that isn't a criminal is only refered to in NPC write up without skill trees.  I hope AoR is written so that you can play Rebellion or Imperial equally well without massive tweaking. 

 

Hopefully the "you are not allowed to play Imperial" trend is just for the initial game and they will be adding the Imperial side for PC's later. 

 

I just imagine the outrage if they release the 3rd game and PC's can only be Jedi, not Sith :blink:

 

It's clearly aimed at Rebels. There is no provision for playing stormtroopers, for example, and the soldier career specialties in the beta aren't good for line impies... Commando, Medic, and sharpshooter. 

 

I honestly don't grasp why people would want to play the impies.

 

There is likely to be more outrage if F&D includes more than token coverage for playing the sith...

 

Star Wars is aimed at a wide audience, including a lot of teens. There are still a lot of parents who don't allow D&D for it's "evil influences" and allowances for playing evil characters. 

 

FFG would do far better on the social front to keep the impies to core book 4, rather than in Core Book 2, where it would result in more parents being upset about it.

Edited by aramis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The line between Empire and Rebels is just simple name changes. Duty to the Empire, start off with an ill equipped sector of space the Empire has little interest in. Thus you could have the imperia and party viewing the assignment as a punishment. Yet, as they bring criminals to Justice and uncover conspiracies to rebel against the Emperor and take down illegal Hutt operations they level up in Duty thus become better funded as a result, gaining better equipment and more troopers.

AoR does come with stats for plenty imperial star ships.

There's no need for imperial rule sets. AoR gives you everything you need, just cross out instances of the word rebel and replace with imperial.

As for F&D:

Vader and the Emperor are the only Sith. Every one else is a dark Jedi. So no doubt they will have rules for dark aide force powers.

Edited by Internutt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aramis,

It's probably the same reason that D&D players want to play characters of an evil alignment, or that White Wolf's Vampire: the Masquerade got such a huge following back in the 90's.  For some, evil = cool, and in Star Wars the Empire is pretty much the face of evil.  There's also the notion of that by playing the villains of the settings, the players aren't as bound to morals and feel they have greater permission to "cut loose" and simply do as they will without concern of the consequences.

 

I agree with the general sentiment that rules for playing Imperial PCs aren't really needed; Internutt is right in that a GM that wants to run an Imperial game will already have all the tools they need, particularly if they incorporate the EotE careers and specs to broaden the list of options.  I could very easily see a Stormtrooper PC being built as a Hired Gun/Enforcer rather than using Soldier (at least until the Soldier splatbook comes out).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly I usually prefer playing Imperial characters who believe they are doing the right thing, and believe that the Empire's flaws can be fixed from within the system. Usually they have lost loved ones to the Alliance, the Resistance movements which proceeded the Alliance, or Separatist holdouts, sometimes more than one group. And they usually don't realize just high up the rot goes. In fact I once played the same Imperial character in two campaigns, but he ended up defecting to the Alliance in the second after receiving orders direct from Palpatine which his consistence wouldn't allow him to follow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vader and the Emperor are the only Sith. Every one else is a dark Jedi. So no doubt they will have rules for dark aide force powers.

Correction: Vader and Emperor are the only Sith in the line of Darth Bane. There may be other lines of Sith remaining, including those self-taught from Sith holocrons or spirits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think people can rule out Imperial or Sith rules in AoR or F&D.  The devs have said they want the books to follow the OT and the characters and the flavor of what they did.  They were Rebels.  I get some like the various Imperial aspects but I wouldn't expect anything Imperial or Dark Side other than in a separate book.  If the new movie's antagonist develops from Imperial/Sith remnants I would expect a CRB for that to be a pretty good idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

It's clearly aimed at Rebels. There is no provision for playing stormtroopers, for example, and the soldier career specialties in the beta aren't good for line impies... Commando, Medic, and sharpshooter. 

 

I honestly don't grasp why people would want to play the impies.

 

There is likely to be more outrage if F&D includes more than token coverage for playing the sith...

 

Star Wars is aimed at a wide audience, including a lot of teens. There are still a lot of parents who don't allow D&D for it's "evil influences" and allowances for playing evil characters. 

 

FFG would do far better on the social front to keep the impies to core book 4, rather than in Core Book 2, where it would result in more parents being upset about it.

 

 

Wow, you are laboring under some, well assumptions.

 

The Sith are evil by definition.  But the Imperial Citizen is not.  It isn’t like Umpteen Trillion Beings suddenly woke up one morning and said "Hey, let’s all hold a murder party! Lets all go kill our neighbors! Yay!"

 

Why play Impies?  Why not?  Why do I need to only play murderers or non-murderer petty criminals or crooks doing good for a price? 

 

If being aimed at teens is important and parents don't want their kids playing 'evil', then we need to shut down EotE at once.  After all, many of the careers and specialties are dedicated to hardened felons.  Assassins, theives and such.  The whole game is geared toward 'evil' as defined by today’s society.

 

Perhaps they will put out an expansion (a separate core wouldn’t be needed).  But we are not necessarily asking for teh Emperors Guards or Dark Jedi or some such.  But rather the already existing ‘actual good guy’ such as Sector Rangers that even the EotE books says were still there and some of the many other possibilities that make a great RPG.

 

 

The line between Empire and Rebels is just simple name changes. Duty to the Empire, start off with an ill equipped sector of space the Empire has little interest in. Thus you could have the imperia and party viewing the assignment as a punishment. Yet, as they bring criminals to Justice and uncover conspiracies to rebel against the Emperor and take down illegal Hutt operations they level up in Duty thus become better funded as a result, gaining better equipment and more troopers.

AoR does come with stats for plenty imperial star ships.

There's no need for imperial rule sets. AoR gives you everything you need, just cross out instances of the word rebel and replace with imperial.

As for F&D:

Vader and the Emperor are the only Sith. Every one else is a dark Jedi. So no doubt they will have rules for dark aide force powers.

 

No, not really.  I haven't read AoR, but you can't make a Sector Ranger by just changing the name of Assassin. 

 

You can't make a line trooper by changing the name of a Commando. 

 

And what is this concept that the Evil Emperor somehow caused trillions of citizens to wake up in the morning as deranged evil villains.   Chemicals in the water?

 

Aramis,

It's probably the same reason that D&D players want to play characters of an evil alignment, or that White Wolf's Vampire: the Masquerade got such a huge following back in the 90's.  For some, evil = cool, and in Star Wars the Empire is pretty much the face of evil.  There's also the notion of that by playing the villains of the settings, the players aren't as bound to morals and feel they have greater permission to "cut loose" and simply do as they will without concern of the consequences.

 

OK,  I almost hurt myself with this one.   Again with the universal evil pill. 

 

OK, I have control.  Whoosh.  Thanks for the chuckle :)

 

Honestly I usually prefer playing Imperial characters who believe they are doing the right thing, and believe that the Empire's flaws can be fixed from within the system. Usually they have lost loved ones to the Alliance, the Resistance movements which proceeded the Alliance, or Separatist holdouts, sometimes more than one group. And they usually don't realize just high up the rot goes. In fact I once played the same Imperial character in two campaigns, but he ended up defecting to the Alliance in the second after receiving orders direct from Palpatine which his consistence wouldn't allow him to follow.

 

Yes, exactly.  And I guessing you understand the difference between thugs and trained troops.  I am actually more stunned that AoR doesn't have full Imperial Career stats since converted Imperials would by definition make up the bulk of a rebellion within an Empire.    Unless the success of the Rebellion hinges on the total genocide and extermination all inhabitants of the Core Worlds.

 

The game I was hoping for was a Sector Ranger campaign.    That hope dashed, I am hoping for a military campaign, if AoR actually has Careers/Specs that are for more than an Insurgency.   I know there is a Soldier Career, but have no idea of the Specialties.  If they are all sneaks like command and sniper, they will have locked out wide appeal to focus on the narrow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think people can rule out Imperial or Sith rules in AoR or F&D.  The devs have said they want the books to follow the OT and the characters and the flavor of what they did.  They were Rebels.  I get some like the various Imperial aspects but I wouldn't expect anything Imperial or Dark Side other than in a separate book.  If the new movie's antagonist develops from Imperial/Sith remnants I would expect a CRB for that to be a pretty good idea.

 

No loss from my view point.    I don't use any of the force sensitive stuff and don't really intend to buy book 3.   I like the SW universe, but am not really interested in playing superheroes there.  Jedi and Sith are fantastic in movies and books where their abilities are controlled by the writer/plot.  But in an RPG they just become Superheroes or Lesser Gods.  There are many other RPG's for that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holy c***!  The adventure books are hardback too, instead of softcover.  $30 for a one-shot.  

 

I crunched the numbers once a while ago, but basically what FFG is asking for their books is just about in line with what WEG was asking for their books back in 1989 - adjusted for inflation, of course. The WotC books were a little bit cheaper than either of the other two ranges, but not by a huge amount.

 

Welcome to the hobby. This stuff costs some serious coin. However, you should thank your gods that you are not a Warhammer player.

Edited by Desslok

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a huge difference between playing imperial subjects not part of the war (which is essentially what Edge is) and playing an imperial side of the Rebellion War.

 

That line is able to be summed up by a single phrase: Propensity to commit atrocities.

 

By 15 BBY, the Empire had liquidated at least one world in total, and enslaved several others. The shock over Alderaan seems not so much that they would destroy all life on a world, but that they could shatter the world in the process.

 

I seriously doubt that, by the 4 BBY to 8 ABY canonical rebel alliance era that there are many "good men" left in the Imperial Military. Solo was in for less than 7 years - cashiered, in fact, but it's clear from the novels that he'd have left the Imperial Military anyway. (The Wookiepedia page includes that same conclusion.) 

 

Most of the ex-soldiers we see in the alliance were either very junior officers (Like Han Solo and Biggs Darklighter) or old men (Like Jan Dodonna). They weren't active long enough in Imperial service to justify Imperial careers - but might have been Republican ones. More likely, tho', the old men were Separatists. Some we know to have been in planetary defense forces (but  I can't recall whom). 

 

Therefore, there is little reason for  Impie Specific careers in the AoR core.

Edited by aramis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lately I've been wanting to play an imperial campaign. It would be inline of Full Metal Alchemist (any version really).

 

The PCs are all officers in the imperial army and slowly they find out that their actions have had some dire consequences. As they go on they begin to unravel the corruption of the emperor, but because of the political power he has, they are powerless to stop it. I would try to encourage the players to fight it form within.

 

I understand SSand's distress, but I would have absolutely no problem with reskinning the AoR and EotE careers to reflect imperial leanings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There were 25,000 star Destroyers in service and no one knows how many smaller craft. Only a very, very small fraction actually participated in any of the activities you mentioned, and while many didn't like them they saw them as a lesser evil than another conflict like the Clone Wars or the return to the mess the Republic had been in the decades leading to the war.Your point is probably valid for the higher ranks of the era though. Serving Generals, Admirals and such though there might have been exceptions even there.If players want to play well-meaning people in Imperial service there is plenty of room for them to work with.

 

Also basically all of the old men you mentioned whom we have backgrounds on were part of the Republic forces or Republic allied defense forces in the Clone Wars AFAIK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's clearly aimed at Rebels. There is no provision for playing stormtroopers, for example, and the soldier career specialties in the beta aren't good for line impies... Commando, Medic, and sharpshooter. 

 

I honestly don't grasp why people would want to play the impies.

 

I played an Imperial-aligned Smuggler in Star Wars Galaxies.  That was fun.  Why Imperial?  Because the devil you know is sometimes a better option that the devil you don't know.  Also, I set up a backstory for her that included loss of family during a Rebel strike operation.  It wasn't "Oh, I'm sure they didn't mean it.  After all, they're fighting for our freedom."  It was more like "Those damned outlaws are always stirring up trouble, getting people killed for their 'cause.'  They're no better than terrorists, and someone needs to stop them.  Might as well be me."

 

Why a smuggler?  It's my go-to Star Wars profession, really.  The idea was that the Empire would need to insert personnel or materiel into Rebel-aligned worlds.  Thus, someone trained in smuggling could do things like that.  Of course, that was SWG.  There aren't many actually Rebel-aligned worlds in Star Wars (at least not openly), so that might not really fit in.  But it would be possible for a Smuggler to identify with the Imperials more than the Rebels, and then it's only the matter of getting them to actually pick a side and fight.

 

All you need to do to make a Stormtrooper is make up a Human soldier.  You don't need stats for Jango clones.  Just like clones had specialties, so do stormtroopers.  Your sergeant might be the squad leader specialty.  Every squad needs a marksman, and you might have a trooper that specializes in long-range, semi-automatic blaster rifles.  You might even need someone to carry the SAW, which could easily be done using a specialty that grants Gunnery as a career skill and giving that trooper one of the assault cannons.  Then, give each person laminate armor with the requisite upgrades, and you've got a stromtrooper squad.  Easily done.  Hell, you could even go with some of the Hired Gun stuff, too.

 

We don't need Imperial-specific stuff, because the careers can be applied to both sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

We don't need Imperial-specific stuff, because the careers can be applied to both sides.

 

There is no generic soldier specialty. We get commando, medic, and sharpshooter.  You can fake a basic solider type with the Hired Gun trees, but it's not RAW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

There is no generic soldier specialty. We get commando, medic, and sharpshooter.  You can fake a basic solider type with the Hired Gun trees, but it's not RAW.

 

Wait - what about that Universal Tree that they released in the last Beta update? That one is pretty Generic Soldier, and easily applied to any class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see how the Soldier career in AoR could be considered Rebel-centric.  It strikes me as very vanilla flavored and easily applied to any firearm related trooper in any background.

That can be said for all of the careers and specializations in AoR.  The Empire is certainly going to have it's share of Aces, Commanders, Diplomats, Engineers, Soldiers, and Spys.  And nothing regarding the crunch for the associated specializations or their talents indicate they're Rebel-centric.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I don't see how the Soldier career in AoR could be considered Rebel-centric.  It strikes me as very vanilla flavored and easily applied to any firearm related trooper in any background.

That can be said for all of the careers and specializations in AoR.  The Empire is certainly going to have it's share of Aces, Commanders, Diplomats, Engineers, Soldiers, and Spys.  And nothing regarding the crunch for the associated specializations or their talents indicate they're Rebel-centric.

 

 

That could be true and if it is it will solve many issues with people that want to play good guys rather than common criminal/bad guys. 

 

The big issue is that AoR is not out yet so many people cannot actually see the information and make an informed judgement.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The beta was released like 6 months ago and many of us play tested/ran mini campaigns with the rule set since then. That's given a lot of us plenty time to reach these conclusions.

My experience with the game lead me to conclude that you could easily slap empire over instances of rebel like I explained in an earlier post and easily run an Empire campaign.

Edited by Internutt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a huge difference between playing imperial subjects not part of the war (which is essentially what Edge is) and playing an imperial side of the Rebellion War.

 

That line is able to be summed up by a single phrase: Propensity to commit atrocities.

 

You're conflating every single possible Imperial commander with a few at the top of the food chain, who would face no official consequences for any action save the sin of failure. Tarkin is not representative of every moff. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imperial campaign idea:

Location: Backwater sector of space of little interest to the Empire. Base is heavily underfunded (Duty level 1), the party have been assigned to it (those reasons are character driven backgrounds!)

The sector can see lots of thugs/Hutt crime as they are literally at the edge of the Empire. As the group police the sector (gaining duty) they are assigned more staff/become better funded as time goes on.

That way, imperial presence grows in the sector/certain planets and more important missions come their way. Locating rebel cells, apprehending 'dangerous individuals' and removing Hutt/black Sun influences.

No need to be villains, just imps doing their duty for the Empire.

Edited by Internutt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't get people saying that all EotE characters are petty thugs, thieves, killers and criminals.

Bounty Hunter: Specifically includes "Imperial Bounty Hunters", working for ISB no less. So "no Imperial characters" is a canard. Bounty Hunters can easily be seen as an arm of law enforcement, they hunt criminals for the bounty. Neither the Gadgeteer nor Survivalist specs require any sort of criminal background to make them work. As for the Assassin, could just as easily be skinned as a police sniper.

Colonist: Doctor, Politico, Scholar. Yep, nothing say "murder hobo" quite like being a doctor.

Explorer: Fringer, Scout, Trader, Archeologist, Big-Game Hunter, Driver. Another violent bunch for sure. No way to run any of these careers as legit.

Hired Gun: Body Guard, could easily be working for a celebrity, a politician, or other legitimate client. Marauder, a guy who likes to take it up lose and personal, could even be in entertainment - what do you think pro-wrestling is? Mercenary Soldier another career that offers the possibility of (former) Imperial employment, and the Mercenary Soldier is specifically called out as having been a non-com.

Smuggler: Pilot, all pilots are criminals? Scoundrel, Thief Two out of three are on the shady side.

Technician: Mechanic, Outlaw Tech, Slicer All three of these could easily be legit careers.

So I don't see how all EotE characters must be Criminals and thugs, nor do I see that Imperial characters are impossible, and as for Law Enforcement it is only impossible if Law Enforcement includes no one who operates as a Bounty Hunter, Technician, Slicer, Driver, Medic, Sniper, etc, and any could be undercover operatives.

As for Law Enforcement careers being a "must have" for AoR, why? I didn't know the Rebels were in the Law Enforcement business.

For people who claim to have been gaming as long as I have been I see a distinct lack of mental flexibility and imagination.

As for the cost of the books, they are full colour, hard bound, and cost about the same as a hard cover novel. Consider that when the novelization of Star Wars first came out it was $7.95 in hard cover and AD&D hard covers were black and white and cost $12.00. If anything the relative cost of FFG books is less than D&D books were back in the day.

The career books and the adventures are *supplemental* it is quite possible to have a very satisfying game without them. The adventures do contain other information which I know I will use beyond simply running the adventures, which for my group will be several sessions at least. Hardly a "one shot", and it frees up time that I will not need to write and prepare an adventure. Or to look at it another way, if you spent the cost of an adventure on movie tickets would you get more, the same, or less time entertained out of the movies than the adventure?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't get people saying that all EotE characters are petty thugs, thieves, killers and criminals.

 

 

I wont quote the entire post but I will take up the argument. I will start by saying Its not so much of I am right and your wrong but having diffrent view points.

 

Characters from EotE are not all criminals and bad guys, but they are all fringers. Think of it as at it First world vs third world. First world you would have police patroling your city ect ect. You get assaulted, you call the police. Third world, you handle it your self, either let it go or take care of it when you have a clear advantage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree they are all fringers, and pretty much all interact regularly with the seedy underbelly of the Outer Rim of the Empire.

It's saying that they must therefor all be criminals and bad guys that I don't agree with. In reading the fluff sections I can even see a possibility to play many of the possible characters as being active Imperial employ.

Tim Zahn's "Allegiance" shows that it is possible to Imperial characters who are dedicated to the high ideals they believe the Empire is dedicated to protecting and balk at being ordered to commit atrocities. Considering that the chaos of the Clone Wars is still well within living memory I can see how many people would consider the a Empire to be flawed in implementation but not necessarily in concept.

Rather than the trite and worn out trope of Empire=Nazis consider Empire=Romans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree they are all fringers, and pretty much all interact regularly with the seedy underbelly of the Outer Rim of the Empire.

It's saying that they must therefor all be criminals and bad guys that I don't agree with. In reading the fluff sections I can even see a possibility to play many of the possible characters as being active Imperial employ.

Tim Zahn's "Allegiance" shows that it is possible to Imperial characters who are dedicated to the high ideals they believe the Empire is dedicated to protecting and balk at being ordered to commit atrocities. Considering that the chaos of the Clone Wars is still well within living memory I can see how many people would consider the a Empire to be flawed in implementation but not necessarily in concept.

Rather than the trite and worn out trope of Empire=Nazis consider Empire=Romans.

 

I get what your saying and I agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...