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Desslok

Colonist Book next, please!

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I tend to agree with 2P51 on this. I don't think an entire specialization should be devoted to dueling despite it being a nifty concept. Rather it would make more sense to be broken down into one or two talents in a Noble or Baron Specialization that was broader while still filling the niche of an affluent Core Worlder looking to bring his high society power out into the Rim.

 

If you did something along those lines, it would still hold true to the fact that the Colonist overall is not an adept at physical exploits while retaining a couple of dueling-focused talents that slightly enhance the fighting pedigree of one of the six specializations within the career.

 

That's just my opinion of course. Naturally, I think it's a good one. :)

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2P51,

The exact same thing could be said of the Big Game Hunter.  After all, isn't that really just a Bounty Hunter with the Survivalist spec when you get down to brass tacks?  Same with the Driver, which ultimately is just a rebrand of the core concept of the Pilot spec; i.e. someone that's really good at operating vehicles.  And operating under that same logic, the Demolitionist is really just another rebrand, this time of the Saboteur from Age of Rebellion, so obviously it's not needed by what you're arguing.  And yet... all three exist, in spite of there already being a "previous version that does the same thing."

 

I think there's enough difference and variation between various specializations to warrant something like the Duelist as a contrast to the "overwhelming brute force" approach that is the Marauder.  As with the examples I listed above, they ultimately do the same thing, but each has a different approach to how they do it, much as the Driver and Pilot have different ways of being expert pilots, as the Big Game Hunter and Survivalist have of being expert trackers & marksman, and how Demolitionist and Saboteur have of making an awfully big mess of things.

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2P51,

The exact same thing could be said of the Big Game Hunter.  After all, isn't that really just a Bounty Hunter with the Survivalist spec when you get down to brass tacks?  Same with the Driver, which ultimately is just a rebrand of the core concept of the Pilot spec; i.e. someone that's really good at operating vehicles.  And operating under that same logic, the Demolitionist is really just another rebrand, this time of the Saboteur from Age of Rebellion, so obviously it's not needed by what you're arguing.  And yet... all three exist, in spite of there already being a "previous version that does the same thing."

 

I think there's enough difference and variation between various specializations to warrant something like the Duelist as a contrast to the "overwhelming brute force" approach that is the Marauder.  As with the examples I listed above, they ultimately do the same thing, but each has a different approach to how they do it, much as the Driver and Pilot have different ways of being expert pilots, as the Big Game Hunter and Survivalist have of being expert trackers & marksman, and how Demolitionist and Saboteur have of making an awfully big mess of things.

Not the exact same thing can't be said.  I didn't just say Duelist is Marauder with a wealthy core background, although it is more likely,  I posted a direct quote from the career write up.  Feel free to post any quote you like from the CRB like I did that specifically rules out Big Game Hunter or Driver for the Explorer career.

 

The career description for Colonist is very clear and listed in one single sentence and points out the Colonist is not one for combat nor physical activities.  I don't think given that description of the career by the developers that a duelist would be a proper expansion specialization for the career.  A duelist would be a combat spec and that just doesn't fit the Colonist description imo and the write up in the CRB.

Edited by 2P51

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Here are some of my thoughts:

 

Bureaucrat

Some Trader, some Quartermaster. 

 

Laborer

A bunch of the tough guy talents without being a combat guy (perhaps a touch of brawl). 

 

Noble

A bit like the Politco, but more about access to things/places/people. Being a noble opens doors.

 

Entertainer

Some social, some access (as above), a touch of scoundrel

 

Could also pull one of AoR's in, like Scientist or Agitator.

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Honestly I think it makes sense for colonist to have some kind of spec which allows for tactical skills.

 

A: It would be very unlikely for an organized group setting out to establish a colony in most eras of Star Wars without planning for a militia, including trying to recruit leaders for it IMO.

 

B: There are probably a lot of former military personal who just want to leave their pasts behind and start over. Officers who did well in the Planetary security or judicial forces but for some reason couldn't cut it in the Empire, Or former CIS officers who weren't high profile enough to end up wanted by the Empire. Sure many like that would join the Alliance or go pirate or merc but I would be surprised if there weren't a substantial number who just wanted to get away from it all and saw helping set up and defend a new colony as a way to do so.

 

It will be interesting to see what a colonist book would have for equipment and vehicles. I imagine it will have some cheap and low maintenance starfighter and freighter/transport classes and possibly some older corvette, frigate, or light cruiser classes

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I would think the next book would definitely have some kind of transport/shuttle type ships.  Perhaps some commerce specific type vessels, like asteroid mining ships.

 

I would imagine a smattering of weapons and gear.  You would think with the maintenance needs there might be some increased information on droids, more types, options for NPC ones or something.

 

DC has prices for different jobs.  Maybe expanded information on trade and commerce in general.

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For vehicles and starships I would expect the Colonist book to have yachts, passenger liners, specialty transports (emergency medical vehicles, etc.), and other non-freight ships. However, I doubt that it will have all that many vehicles since neither the career nor any current specializations are focused on vehicles.

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Not the exact same thing can't be said.  I didn't just say Duelist is Marauder with a wealthy core background, although it is more likely,  I posted a direct quote from the career write up.  Feel free to post any quote you like from the CRB like I did that specifically rules out Big Game Hunter or Driver for the Explorer career.

 

The career description for Colonist is very clear and listed in one single sentence and points out the Colonist is not one for combat nor physical activities.  I don't think given that description of the career by the developers that a duelist would be a proper expansion specialization for the career.  A duelist would be a combat spec and that just doesn't fit the Colonist description imo and the write up in the CRB.

 

And the same idea of "Nobles aren't combatants by default" was present in Saga Edition as well, and they eventually got a Duelist talent tree.  They didn't turn into front-line combatants (low hit points and reliance on mental ability scores) being a major reason.  Design conceits can and do change over the course of an RPG's life.

 

And that quote you're so hell bent on using as justification for "Colonists should NEVER have a combat-related spec" is nothing more than a generalization.  Note the "doesn't tend to have the training to survive in areas of high conflict."  It's a descriptive tendency of Colonists, not an iron-clad rule.  It'd be the same sort of sweeping generalization as saying that all Scots and those of Scottish descent (of which I am one) are belligerent drunks, or that anyone of Native American heritage is part of the "beads and feathers" crowd when those two statements are very much NOT the case.

 

As I described above when pitching ideas for a Duelist spec, it'd be something that'd excel in it's given focus (single combat using light melee weapons) but not be quite as good outside that focus (your average bar brawl or protracted blaster fight).  The only combat skill offered as a bonus career skill would be Melee, and any new talents could be worded to restrict them to one-handed melee weapons.

 

But, if you want to remain doggedly and rabidly leashed to the narrow-minded conceit that "Colonists should be non-combat characters only," that's your choice.

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I would think a Duelist would have access to both Melee and Ranged (Light) as specialization skills just to make a more flexible specialization. Have one column somewhat specific to each skill and then two columns of various abilities.

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I would think a Duelist would have access to both Melee and Ranged (Light) as specialization skills just to make a more flexible specialization. Have one column somewhat specific to each skill and then two columns of various abilities.

That's true.  I'll confess to being more on the swashbuckler side of the idea of dueling, in that it being two gentlebeings with sharp pointy things trying to skewer the other guy over a point of honor.

 

Pistol dueling would be viable as "dueling" as well.  Not quite as romantacized perhaps, but the fact that Suns of Fortune mentions a type of pistol specifically for dueling does lend weight to the idea.

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Not the exact same thing can't be said.  I didn't just say Duelist is Marauder with a wealthy core background, although it is more likely,  I posted a direct quote from the career write up.  Feel free to post any quote you like from the CRB like I did that specifically rules out Big Game Hunter or Driver for the Explorer career.

 

The career description for Colonist is very clear and listed in one single sentence and points out the Colonist is not one for combat nor physical activities.  I don't think given that description of the career by the developers that a duelist would be a proper expansion specialization for the career.  A duelist would be a combat spec and that just doesn't fit the Colonist description imo and the write up in the CRB.

 

And the same idea of "Nobles aren't combatants by default" was present in Saga Edition as well, and they eventually got a Duelist talent tree.  They didn't turn into front-line combatants (low hit points and reliance on mental ability scores) being a major reason.  Design conceits can and do change over the course of an RPG's life.

 

And that quote you're so hell bent on using as justification for "Colonists should NEVER have a combat-related spec" is nothing more than a generalization.  Note the "doesn't tend to have the training to survive in areas of high conflict."  It's a descriptive tendency of Colonists, not an iron-clad rule.  It'd be the same sort of sweeping generalization as saying that all Scots and those of Scottish descent (of which I am one) are belligerent drunks, or that anyone of Native American heritage is part of the "beads and feathers" crowd when those two statements are very much NOT the case.

 

As I described above when pitching ideas for a Duelist spec, it'd be something that'd excel in it's given focus (single combat using light melee weapons) but not be quite as good outside that focus (your average bar brawl or protracted blaster fight).  The only combat skill offered as a bonus career skill would be Melee, and any new talents could be worded to restrict them to one-handed melee weapons.

 

But, if you want to remain doggedly and rabidly leashed to the narrow-minded conceit that "Colonists should be non-combat characters only," that's your choice.

 

I'm narrow minded , dogged, and rabid I guess by simply pointing to a very clear sentence in the career description that doesn't support a combat spec, whereas you are clearly superior and open minded, to say nothing of classically well mannered.  My argument is simply pointing out what is written in the book and you feel the need to refer to me from your superior position.  3 more points in closing.

 

This isn't SAGA.

 

You aren't on the dev team.

 

Your opinion is no better than anyone else's.

Edited by 2P51
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Well 2P51, at least you can admit that you're being narrow-minded, dogged and rabid about Colonist specs never being able to have any sort of combat savvy.  I guess in your games you veto any Colonist PCs from purchasing combat skills, even with XP, because you've got iron-clad proof from the book that says Colonists shouldn't be good at combat.

 

And your opinion holds just as much weight around here.  You don't like that some folks are okay with the idea of having a Colonist spec that's not a total incomp in a fight, that's your opinion.  But the fact that others disagree with your stance shows that the idea of a Duelist isn't entirely unfounded or unwelcome.  And those opinions are just as valid in this thread, whether you like them or not.

 

Edit: I was hoping that with an extreme example, I might help 2P51 realize at least a part of his fallacy on "Colonists can't ever be combat experts!" stance.  But as his brain is firmly lodged up his hindquarters on that particular topic, I can see I'm wasting my time in that endeavor.

Edited by Donovan Morningfire

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For vehicles and starships I would expect the Colonist book to have yachts, passenger liners, specialty transports (emergency medical vehicles, etc.), and other non-freight ships. However, I doubt that it will have all that many vehicles since neither the career nor any current specializations are focused on vehicles.

 

 

Perhaps but so far all of the books have included a mix of fighter size, transport size, and capital size vessels and IMO it would make sense for it to include the kinds of vessels newly established colonies might purchase for their defense force. And I'm not really sure that new colonies would have much in the way of yachts and passenger liners though I suppose the latter could be used as a colony ship.

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I'm very much for a Colonist book now that FFG has gotten the 'big guns' and fighty stuff out of their systems, (not that it was a bad book at all!) however, I share the sentiment for having Techie's and Smugglers get a look in fairly soon as a priority.

Mostly because the tech careers are fairly sub-par and smugglers are kind of iconic to the SW-universe.

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Starships for the Colonist Sourcebook would still make sense regardless if they have Pilot as a career skill or not.

 

A few suggestions that include a Tapani ship and more luxury-based vessels.

 

 

I always did like the Corvettes. This one in particular.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/FarStar

 

 

Gotta love the FarStar! The modular designs of the CR70's and CR90's make them one of the most interesting ships around for modification.

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Starships for the Colonist Sourcebook would still make sense regardless if they have Pilot as a career skill or not.

 

A few suggestions that include a Tapani ship and more luxury-based vessels.

 

I always did like the Corvettes. This one in particular.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/FarStar

 

Gotta love the FarStar! The modular designs of the CR70's and CR90's make them one of the most interesting ships around for modification.

I would love to say I am aiming towards this as my endgame but my gm is making us work for a ship period. I don't know how attempting to get a capital ship with 5 people as crew would work.

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Starships for the Colonist Sourcebook would still make sense regardless if they have Pilot as a career skill or not.

 

A few suggestions that include a Tapani ship and more luxury-based vessels.

 

I always did like the Corvettes. This one in particular.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/FarStar

 

Gotta love the FarStar! The modular designs of the CR70's and CR90's make them one of the most interesting ships around for modification.

I would love to say I am aiming towards this as my endgame but my gm is making us work for a ship period. I don't know how attempting to get a capital ship with 5 people as crew would work.

 

 

You're gonna need NPC's. Sounds like a good application of the Leadership skill to me. Start making a name for yourselves and attracting followers/companions and you might be able to recruit enough people to make crewing a corvette viable.

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I still think that luxury vessels and a new colony is a very odd combo but to Each their own.

 

I would go for Daggers, C-73s, or some new designs for the fighter role. Maybe R-41s, A-6s, or T-36s (T-36s would really be lousy for a new colony but some salesman could probably convince someone buying craft for a new colony otherwise.)

 

On the capship front CR70s would be good, as would the Bayonet class Light Cruiser and Corona Armed Frigate IMO (Though the last would also be great for a pirate book.) All three are cheap for capital ships, and have crew requirements small enough that a new colony could afford them. Plus Bayonets are equipped for survey work so they could have been used when the colonists or whoever is backing the colony was hunting for a world to colonize. And there's tons of room for newly introduced models of small capital ships that are old enough for hem to be within a colony's price range and FFG has done a great job of introducing a variety of new ship classes.

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I really like the idea of incorporating the Bayonet and the C-73 Tracker. Be nice to have pictures for both as well!

 

I'm wondering if we'll also get a Tartan-class Patrol Cruiser in one of the new sourcebooks. Those things are awesome and deserve some attention. Plus, it makes sense for them to be scooting about the Rim...

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Starships for the Colonist Sourcebook would still make sense regardless if they have Pilot as a career skill or not.

 

A few suggestions that include a Tapani ship and more luxury-based vessels.

 

I always did like the Corvettes. This one in particular.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/FarStar

 

Gotta love the FarStar! The modular designs of the CR70's and CR90's make them one of the most interesting ships around for modification.

I would love to say I am aiming towards this as my endgame but my gm is making us work for a ship period. I don't know how attempting to get a capital ship with 5 people as crew would work.

 

 

You're gonna need NPC's. Sounds like a good application of the Leadership skill to me. Start making a name for yourselves and attracting followers/companions and you might be able to recruit enough people to make crewing a corvette viable.

 

Its doable in my head, but I am not sure if they are going to want a PC with that much power. We shall see. Its a long way away.

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I'd actually like to see these as the new specs in a Colonist book:

 

Exchequer: covers a wide range of finance related concepts from corporate accountants to underworld bookkeepers to goverment tax agents. 

 

Constable: basically law enforcement with a bias towards detective work, the ability to solve crimes, navigate the judicial bureaucracy and catch the "bad guys"

 

Entertainer: because everyone could use some Macross in their Star Wars campaign... that or you can run the Lindsay Lohan / Miley Cyrus character while someone else in the group runs the hapless Bodyguard who has to keep the crazy out-of-control celebutante safe from stalkers and paparazzi, another player runs the Politico who is their publicist trying to avert scandal, the Scroundrel or Fringer member of their entourage who scores them the spice and otherwise gets the celeb into trouble

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